They should be right and damned kicked round the offices in Abbotstown for not begging a few clubs to join the league and at this stage, for not welcoming the GUST application with open arms.
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They should be right and damned kicked round the offices in Abbotstown for not begging a few clubs to join the league and at this stage, for not welcoming the GUST application with open arms.
Maybe they did. It just isn't a smart investment for a club.
I mean, there's Cobh, still have serious debt problems, but look like the most likely candidates. GUST have been told to not bother. Tralee was supposed to have an AGM on this topic I think but I don't remember ever reading anything else about that. Has there been any indications at all from anyone else? Fanad, Carlow, Castlebar? Are there any clubs out there big enough to see the First Division as something to actually aim for as opposed to a black hole of financial difficulties and stagnation?
I know if I was running a club that has been going well and had built up decent facilities I wouldn't risk the club for the sake of a few years in the first division unless I was 100% guaranteed it was financially viable.
The Premier Division fixtures have been out since before Christmas!Quote:
Originally Posted by wonder88
I think he meant a one tier system in 2014?
FAI seems very committed to a two-tier system anyway, and is more likely to look to reserve or "A" sides to fill the gaps then change that.
33 games isn't too many - the problem is the stupid mid-season break, which means that the games that would be on during that period are moved to midweek. The league season is very short in comparison to other countries.
We should just go back to winter football.
I dont see how having a load of postponements and getting worse results in Europe will help the league, Since the move to summer football results have been better in Europe, pitch's are in much better shape, helping club's and young players improve their skills rather than playing in a over physical hoofball league. The only reason i can think of why a winter football would help is the promotion of clubs from intermediate to senior football and not clashing with GAA.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Bringing this up over and over again is stupid. The FAI is screwing up the league system yes, after 2002 there was a review of the league, the Genesis Report said the best system in a small country like ours was two 10 team leagues. Having a 12 team premier division is great for the premier division but makes the first division a total balls. Getting three more clubs into senior football would be better than this but is unrealistic.
Getting one more team for now would be good and reverting to two ten team leagues until such time as two more clubs want to join Senior Football which could be a few years down the line.
Why are people so against a one tier league, with a spilt at the halfway stage ? It seems that the distaste of the Dublin clubs (and some of the stars of the league) for travel is the main reason for the current setup. No wonder league of Ireland teams perform so poorly in europe, with such a lenster senior league mentality.
LOI teams perform above their level in Europe.
Speak for yereselves!Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Quote:
Originally Posted by citybone
Jesus christ man, relax, I was messing.
On another note, the winter season has done no wrong with the under 19 league. So, your point regarding helping young players improve their skills is invalid.
Plus, this is Ireland we're talking about. Weather isn't a factor all year round, as it's as bad now as it was in August.
Well we tried the split before, and it was horrendous. Quickly scrapped after its 2 year trial periodQuote:
Originally Posted by wonder88
One divison without promotion/relegation is awful too.
Flutering about with league formats will solve nothing IMO
Re Dodge's comments: the split thing was awful, I agree. A single division witout promotion/relegation is awful too. But the PD/FD as it currently stands is also awful. If it was described as the "two division experiment", it would be deemed to have failed, as a financial, sporting and cultural endeavour.
As currently structured, the FD is little more than a safety net that allows the occasional PD club to fold whilst having minimal impact on the PD itself. Monaghan fold? No problem, we'll reconstitute the PD as a 12 club league, and the divil take the FD.
I have some sympathy with the argument that FD clubs have to earn the right to play in the PD. In fact, I have a lot of sympathy with that argument. However, given the advantages that PD clubs enjoy, there is, most seasons, in reality, really only one promotion spot available. Even in a poor FD, its hard to win that spot, especially when some clubs flood their resources in order to do it. Some won't (e.g. Waterford, Athlone, Longford) and some can't (and probably won't, as well) (e.g. Mervue, Salthill). Good club governance is actually a barrier to promotion.
I don't see things changing, and I've lost my anger around it. I'm more bemused now, both by the FAI and the intransigence of most PD clubs, on whom I think the change would have very little impact. It would be a lifeline to some FD clubs, and at very little cost to some PD clubs.
And I will still make the same arguments if Waterford United ever finally get out.
Would it would be more practical to allow and admit Premier Division clubs to have a II or B team in the First Division rather than leaving only 7 teams in it? The majority of the smaller nations in Europe (and quiet a few of the larger nations) have a second team in a competitive league.
I know the A Championship was dissolved and was meant as a breeding ground for young players, a chance for teams to get into the league and football for those not getting games at the bigger clubs. From my understanding the U19 league has replaced this. Not saying to disband the U19 league and create II teams at all, but surely having B teams in the First Division would be workable solution rather than a 7 team league. The last A Championship had 14 B teams and 4 clubs trying to earn a spot in the League. Of those 14 B Teams there are probably 5-6 clubs that would be able to accommodate and maintain a decent standard B team. And Cobh may or may not be back to enlarge the league further.
Of course there's a bit more regulation to enforce that certain players can only play X amount of games for the A team or after a certain period can't drop back but surely it be a progression on the current set-up.
On a side note I was reading an article on the set-up of Estonia clubs - ALL only have permission to enter the league on the grounds that they meet the following criteria - have a mens 1st and reserve team, a youth team structure (u12-18) and a womens team. A certain amount of youth players must be within a radius of the club and there are exemptions when 2 (or more) clubs are in the same catchment area. Done right that's a hell of lot of the local community in one club from a playing persceptive alone. Far more sustainable long term
Here's how the PD/FD split has gone
1985/86 - 1991/92 (7 seasons) - 12 PD/10 FD - 2 relegated/2 promoted
1992/93 - 2000/01 (9 seasons) - 12 PD/10 FD - 2 relegated/2 promoted - PO between 1 PD/1 FD
2001/02 (1 season) - 12 PD/9 FD - 3 relegated/1 promoted - PO between 1 PD/1 FD
2002/03 - 2003 (2 seasons) - 10 PD/12 FD - 1 relegated/1 promoted - PO between 1 PD/3 FD
2004 (1 season) - 10 PD/12 FD - 1 relegated/3 promoted
2005 (1 season) - 12 PD/10 FD - 1 relegated/1 promoted - PO between 1 PD/1 FD
2006-2007 (2 seasons) - 12 PD/10 FD - 1 relegated/1 promoted - PO between 1 PD/2 FD
2008 (1 season) 12 PD/10 FD - 3 relegated/1 promoted
2009 (1 season) 10 PD/12 FD - 1 relegated/1 promoted - PO between 1 PD/2 FD
2010 (1 season) 10 PD/12 FD - 1 relegated/1 promoted - PO between 2 PD/2 FD
2011 (1 season) 10 PD/11 FD - 0 relegated/2 promoted - PO between 1 PD/1 FD
2012 (1 season) 12 PD/8 FD - 1 relegated/1 promotoed - PO between 1 PD/1 FD
So only once in the last 10 years has it been the same format.
(You can see how the play offs went here; http://statsthatarepointless.wordpre...oy-for-others/ )
Were we the last club to be relegated??
It's such a pity we didn't spend over a million euro in a crazy bid to turn professional and establish ourselves in the PD.............
Personally, I'd be appalled at reserve teams playing in the FD. This is based more on a gut reaction of feeling slighted than on a reasoned argument.
If reserve teams did play in the FD, it would be the surest sign of a league failure, and that power rests in the hands of a very small amount of clubs.
I've been banging the drum of the Estonian model for years. I didn't know the model existed there, so I didn't have a name for it, but I've long held that opinion. I would love to see it developed and enforced. The interaction with the junior and intermediate leagues would be something to behold though. Light the touchpaper and stand well back.
technically Galway were relegated after losing the 2011 play offs. They didn't get a license for 2012Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Heggy
Harps/Cobh/UCD relegated together (Harps 3rd bottom - as you know)
That Estonian model is absolutely fantastic indeed. But would it work here? Doubtful.
I doubt we could afford to be sending a first division B team all over Ireland to be honest, I think the u19s cost enough to keep going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dermotron
Apologies, a reserve team is not a prerequisite of entering a team:
from here: http://www.ecaeurope.com/Quote:
In Estonia there are four leagues and, in order to obtain a licence to play in the first league, a team should a womens team as well a youth one
So one would be at the cost of losing the other I'd imagine. Still, even if it meant the 5-6 extra teams could only be supported by Dublin teams I think it would add a lot more to the league than having it so short on numbers (this is in the understanding that the u19 league continues)Quote:
Originally Posted by adamd164
Heaven forbid another team (or 2) go to the wall during the season
Ouch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I may need a stiff drink.
Who was the last team to finish bottom of the Prem and play in Division 1 te following season?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
UCD in 2008Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
The U19 league replaced the U20s which had replaced the U21's. The A Championship was an additional entity. It was compulsory for premier clubs to have a reserve team in the A Championship. They would have had U20's as well as the A Championship and senior teams to run, so was too costly to keep it going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dermotron
The current setup is stupid to be fair. Why is it u19s... why not u21s or reserves league? Needs to be revised given the A Championship no longer exists.
I think the under 19 league is fantastic. The problem is, there's nowhere for them to go once they are overage, unless they're good enough for the first team.
Precisely the reason why teams like Harps have just entered a reserve side into the Ulster Senior League.
Would I be right thinking there's two tiers of USL Nigel? surely a single tier would be better for all involved if there's little more than a dozen teams involved?
USL has only one tier. i think they only have ten teams this year including Harps and Derry Reserves.
I think the u19 league has been very successful. It seems to be acting as a successful bridge between schoolbiy football and the pro ranks, which anecdotally at least seems to be contributing to the slow down of young players going to England too young, failing, and having to return home with their tail between their legs.Quote:
Originally Posted by adamd164
It gives them a bit more time to mature, and then hopefully for some of them, make their move up to the senior ranks. If they're good enough to go to another league, they still have plenty time. And the benefit to the LOI seems apparent.
I know each club will have had different experiences, but just using Waterford United as an example as its the only one I know in any detail, its been a roaring success. In the last year alone, Seani Maguire, Jack Doherty, Jamie Cross, Conor Coad, Kevin O'Connor, Lee Delaney and Aidan McGrath have all played for the senior team, with three of these tieing down regular places in the match day squad. That's a fantastic return for them and for the club.
According to Donegal Now, the FAI will announce the D1 line-up shortly:
This seem to indicate that a seven team league is a real possibility. Sigh.Quote:
The league is due to begin in March but as yet Finn Harps do not know their fixture list for this season.
A spokesperson for the FAI told Donegal Now this morning that “the matter is still ongoing with detailed discussions currently taking place with one particular applicant club and there should be a decision, one way or the other, very shortly”.
It is speculated that the club in question is Cobh Ramblers.
It's pretty obvious what's happening - the FAI are absolutely desperate to save face by getting Cobh back in to prop up the number of teams, but Cobh are totally broke so they're trying to work out any way of doing it on a shoestring or even with subsidy I'd suspect (e.g. lower Cobh's rent to the FAI, that sort of thing).
Whats one more FD team without a budget? Salthill will have renewed hope of finishing second last.
There's an USL Reserve Division. Could be what you're thinking of. There's only something like 6 or 8 teams in it. Probably of a lower standard than most Donegal League sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by horton
There's 10 teams as Mr.A said, a couple of teams have pulled out in the past few seasons and gone back to Donegal League.
Cobh are back
http://www.fai.ie/domestic-a-grassro...n-licence.html
8 teams and fixtures out tomorrow at midday
Great. Could be a nice little trip if they still play Saturdays.
Excellent news, if they thrive this season, maybe it'll encourage further applications in future years.
I wonder what sort of deal was made with their debt?