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http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...e-3263793.html
Interesting I just emailed my mates this morning saying that I believed Keane still had the backing of the whole team(given the celebration many "read" into that as they wanted to based on their own opinions of him) and spoke for them,I also said i bet the players must have spoken to Delaney whoever else afterwards.
As always, it's The Examiner with the interesting quotes:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...ck-211224.html
Before he flew back from the Faroes, Trapattoni had indicated that he fully intended to continue in football in the event of his getting boot in Ireland.
"Sure, with another team in another country," he declared. When asked if there were offers he was aware of out there, he replied with a cryptic smile: "In another week, I can say to you."
A lot can happen in a week in football, it’s true — or even in one day, as yesterday’s events confirmed — and given Ireland’s next competitive games are not until March, there is still plenty of scope for further twists and turns in Trapattoni’s reign as Ireland manager over the coming weeks and months.
What was clear before last night’s FAI meeting was that Trapattoni was bemused by the very idea that there could even have been the possibility of a move against him at this early stage in a new qualifying campaign. He even suggested to journalists before leaving the Faroes that being shown the door after the European Championships might have made more sense than getting his marching orders now when, a mere three games into the new campaign, Ireland remain in qualifying contention for World Cup 2014. And, dipping into his own decorated past to find an exception to the rule, he was implicitly critical of footballing officialdom in general.
"I was in four countries at important clubs," he said. "I know every president and every chief executive. I know. I met only one very important president because he knew football very well (former Juventus striker and later club president Giampiero Boniperti). He was the best striker many years ago. He wouldn’t make judgments depending on whether you win or lose. He would take a decision and stick to his decision.
"But the president is the president. He has responsibility. He decides what happens or doesn’t happen. Sometime (he thinks) it’s better to change the manager because there is a problem with the team. It’s easier to change the manager rather than 10 players. In my life, this has never been the case. I am the one who decided to go and change clubs."
Nor had he any intention of resigning — or being provoked into a resignation.
"Maybe they think I go but I said in Tuesday’s press conference that no, I will not go, because we’re starting a new job. We started a new campaign and we lost against Germany, not against Kazakhstan or the Faroes. Sweden found it difficult to play there."
Appearing upbeat and unruffled after Tuesday night’s win, Trapattoni seemed to be able to ride serenely above the media firestorm — but then, it’s a phenomenon with which he has become only too well acquainted in his many years in top flight football.
"These are rumours," he said. "And the rumours in Italy are bad and even worse because the newspapers compete against each other. I’m used to this. If it was the players against me, then I would be upset, or if my behaviour with them was not professional. It’s not only diplomacy when you ask the players: ‘What do you think about Trapattoni?’ It’s not that they answer out of diplomacy. When you are a manager, you have this sensibility, a feeling of whether the answer (from the players) is no or yes."
He was not "particularly anxious or upset", he added. "Absolutely not. I continue to do my job with the same attitude and the same attention. The players are growing. I will keep doing my job and I think it’s honourable that I have this quality."
Some of Eoin Hand's criticism, also from The Examiner:
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...wn-211220.html
In football management things can change pretty rapidly but it will be interesting to see what the reaction of the public will be for the friendly for Greece. Maybe it’s a wake-up call for Trapattoni and he’ll start doing the job with full commitment."
Hand was Irish boss between 1980 and 1985, when the role was still part-time, and maintains Trapattoni’s refusal to see his players in club action while he remains in Milan is inexcusable.
"Going to actually see the players is an essential that Trapattoni has never carried out. As soon as you get the job, that’s what you do. I was part-time when I was manager, but I was still going across to England at every available opportunity to check players out.
"That’s how you get the respect of players and get the most out of them because they know you have been watching them.
"We all know his CV is great, there are no problems over that. But what I’m concerned about is the obvious one, his commitment towards the cause. The only time he comes to Ireland is to do press conferences.
"He doesn’t have a presence in this country but never mind that, he doesn’t have a presence in the country where all our players are playing. I find that amazing. I would like to think that perhaps in discussions with the FAI now that came across."
Yet Hand is sceptical over whether John Delaney and the rest of the board of management did lay down those ideas to Trapattoni, adding that financial circumstances may have stopped the association from giving him the sack.
"Then again, maybe they haven’t, maybe they have made this decision strictly from a financial point of view and they can’t afford to get rid of him.
"I think it should be made clear to the manager that now he has to fight against public impressions of him and that he has to commit himself more."
In addition, he is critical of Trapattoni’s ignorance of domestic affairs and says last Saturday’s decision to host a post-match press conference at the same time as Sligo Rovers were winning the League of Ireland title sums the Italian’s attitude up.
"He has been very insulting to the domestic game, culminating in him scheduling a press conference last Saturday at the same time as the most important game of the domestic season.
"He doesn’t see the big picture about having a successful international team.
"It’s nice to have results go for you, but it should be all about fostering the game here, not in England or anywhere else. The bottom line is he has lost sight of that aspect, he should be improving the game here."
My own view: criticism of his work ethic, selection, tactcis, communication etc. is all valid. Howeever, I can't blame Trap if his FAI-set job description is to manager the senior team only. The timing of the press conference was bad, but aws this Trap or FAI's fault?
Indeed, there was little to read into with regard to the players' celebrations after Walters' goal. The players merely went to celebrate with the player they all knew had scored the goal. Robbie was just deluding himself charging for the corner flag with his fist in the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Do we assume that Trap would have gotten the sack then had Robbie and the players not come to his rescue; that the financial motive for keeping him wasn't as pivotal as has been made out?
Delighted that Trap wants to continue in football. Maybe somebody else will offer him a contract... If the FAI are clever they'll let him go for free.
In 4 and a half years the only good result under an expensive manager. BrilliantQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I just read O'Dea spoke up for trappatoni and said he made the correct decision.
If keeping Trappatoni on keeps O'Dea on then I will be flabbergasted. Its those sorta players who should have no say in keeping trap. THey are only in there because of Trap. I really hope as McDonnell pointed out in the Indo today that Trap has learned his lesson and learnt from his mistakes, not just that he has come about these players by force, but he realises that if their is a pressing player knocking on the door and playing PL against subone who is not that good playing lower leagues or reserve that he goes with the bleeding obvious. Change making way for more change.
Geysir hits a big fat nail on the head with regards to McCarthys post match interview. I find it bizarre that Anti-Trappists feel the need to twist that one in to something that was all cloak and dagger - you have enough ammunition to be working with.
I am happy with the decision from both a qualification aspect (we are where we thought we would be, 6 points from 9 - Some may have hoped for 7 or 9 but against Germany who won 10 from 10 last time around, I always thought 6 from 9 is what we would have by now. Obviously I never expected the catastrophic performance against Germany nor indeed the bizarre result in Berlin 4 days later but you dont have to dig too hard to find plenty of other outlandish results for other nations - they do crop up now and again).
Also happy from a practical level. Trap going, was only ever going to be reality if (a) he walked - He made it very clear that wasnt going to happen or (b) we had the funds to pay him off. The FAI dont have those funds, I doubt very much whether O'Brien wants to stump up the cash (but I dont know) and even if he did - It would almost certainly guarantee an inferior manager to come in (purely based on €package alone - all things being equal I think thats a fair assumption - New Manager would probably earn a 1/3rd of the current package I'd guess). We have as good, though probably better chance of qualification for this campaign with Trap at the realm than by bringing in a new guy.
I expect and would be happy enough if Trap leaves at the end of this campaign, hopefully post Brazil.
Interestingly, I've heard interviews with Kevin Moran, seen Twitter posts from Paul McGrath and obviously we know Liam Bradys position. - All either looking for Trap to stay or showing delight in it now being confirmed. All legends of Irish football, personally whilst we all have our own opinions, that carries some weight for me.
Qualification was a pretty good result. Oh I know, I know, we were lucky and all the other teams were rubbish.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
and a result the last two managers would not have gottenQuote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
I'm not convinced Kerr would have won in Armenia either
Watching football under Kerr was every bit as uninspiring as under Trap. Am I the only one who remembers 11 men behind the ball for 60 minutes in Tel Aviv?
Not only is the grass greener on distant hills of the future, grey moors of the past are also starting to appear olive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Thats the bit that really grates me how people naively go along in their bubble without noticing the signs well in advance. Just like the Financial crash in 2007 there alarm bells ringing everywhere yet no one took any heed, happy to ride the gravy train, and never mind those lefty-socialist-naysayers.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatJR
Trap was getting it badly wrong before the Euros started. The signs were ominous well in advance.
This just demonstrates to me that people really never learn.
Agnew confirmed on RTE it was the FAI who bumped Trap's press conference. Can see why Trap's surprised he's still in a job.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Interesting section here on on possibility of manager changing his ways, particularly in regards going to games:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rte.ie
they are in there because we dont have too many options. yes, some will say clark should be in before O'Dea, for example, but clark didnt always show the committment that O'Dea did over the last few seasons and in fairness to O'Dea last Friday was the first time he didnt play well for us imo. are loyalty and committment not the kind of attributes we want our players to have?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
by the way, and to ruin some illusions, clarke is not any great saviour. in fact he had a stinker v spurs when i last saw him play, badly at fault for a spurs goal.
who else was to play ctre back last Friday given dunne and st ledger were out?
Well I think you should seriously consider your evaluation of our players then. We have one champions league player and two top class players in Keane and Dunne that are coming near the end of their career. The rest of the squad makes grim reading between guys who aren't playing for their clubs, guys playing for hoofball teams like Stoke or Wolves, guys playing for decent clubs but are literally considered the worst players at their club and whose fans can't wait to have replaced (see: McClean, Clark), guys with major attitude problems or suspect commitment to the green jersey or guys who are good players but only in a particular system. i.e. strikers who can't play alone upfront or centre mids who can't play in a 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
We're in a dark place for the quality of our playing pool and it's getting darker, we've had to deal without having a single world class player in the team for the past few years, we'll soon have to deal without having a single top class player in the team which is a situation we've never been in before since the pre-Jack days.
Only because of Trap? Strange that he was a regular at under 19 and under 21 level as well under different managers. The people criticising the selection of O'Dea are the worst class of fool because it's for no other reason than his league. He's had one bad game for us against Germany where he was at least no worse than our perennial underachiever JOS but he's safe in his position from the detractors because he plays in a league favourable to them apparently. Otherwise he's ranged from solid to strong when he's had to fill in for us and was very good against the Faroes, as he was throughout the last campaign. He was also another of those stuck on the bench during the Euro's without a minute of gametime despite his contributions during the campaign that got him there, but apparently you must think he's thrilled with that bench sitting situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Hold on... what???Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Extend that to Clark too - he's largely considered a decent prospect, if raw, by Villa fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Alex Pearce is better than O'Dea also
I wouldn't be to sure about that. Have you seen Reading defend this season?Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
Have you seen Toronto in the MLS?Quote:
Originally Posted by JGKyne
Hopefully Shane Duffy can make the breakthrough soon also
If people were annoyed about O'Dea's clumsy performance and penalty concession against Germany, the last person they should be advocating is Ciaran Clark.
Israel are and were a cut above Macedonia and Armenia. They held france iirc out in israel and had lost at home only once in 10 years or something like around the time we played them. I like the way people compare apples and oranges and use different rating instruments for their arguments when it suits them.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Btw kerr is more than just bitter with what happened him, I think he feels the way he was treated by the media, means he takes the mantle and uses it to bash every other manager after him - if they treated me like that then i'm going to treat them just like that and worse.
POS - you're right regarding Brian Kerr. He nurtured alot of the journo's who were amongst the ones who turned on him, that hurts. They were his friends, friends of his fmaily and even though they never got dirty, you could see as his time came to an end he started to get stroppy with them. He felt protected by JD but how can you feel protected by the same man who slaughtered the man who was keeping his seat warm (the man who is now a barrister).
I haven't seen Reading defend this season but I'd imagine they have a lot of defending to do against better teams than Toronto face :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JGKyne
If Pearce is able to hold a first team place for Reading, it would be worth it to give him 45 minutes against Greece, same goes for Clark.
The needs of the future comes hurtling twice as fast than Trap usually plans for.
Can't understand why people are expecting Trap to change his ways. In this mornings interview on RTE Paddy Agnew suggested that if the FAI put any conditions on Trap he will be off.
He was never really tested on his own bar having dunne beside him against any decent opposition. Just because he has performed ok in a friendly or in a couple of games against lower seeds, this shouldn't be the caveat to getting into the first team automatically, just because a couple of injuries. He is at toronto for a reason. I don't care how bad Clark is, and he could well end up in toronto, but for the hear and now, Clark is playing against far better opposition week in week out in a far better team. You shouldn't even need to question this.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Stephen kelly has far more experience at a higher level than o'dea. I would definitely have played him before o'dea. I would also have played Clark before O'dea. Neither clark or o'dea were used to playing with O'shea. Simply for the reasons outlined above I would have chosen him for that game.
Compare that post with IFKs post in the other thread about the players available to Sweden. YOu really only do see things in black and white.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
He has had more clubs and failed than he the village bicycle has been ridden. Open your eyes and don't be so naive. Ill trust the judgement of 4 or 5 managers and copious amounts of scouts/agents over you anyday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
You really are the biggest hypocrite on this site. The exact same was said about O'dea at his clubs,but yet you choose to ignore that in the context above....:rolleyes:Quote:
guys playing for decent clubs but are literally considered the worst players at their club and whose fans can't wait to have replaced (see: McClean, Clark), guys with major attitude problems or suspect commitment
that should not be a reason for not doing so. If it is they save a whole lot of money and get someone else in - if financial motives were behind the decision to keep him on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
I reckon the board meeting went like this:
JD: so that's it, we'll fire him
Board: yep.
JD: so who tells him?
Board: you do
JD: no bloody way, I'm afraid of him. Milo, you do it.
Milo: holy jaysus, no way. I'll be sleeping with the fishes before I'm off the phone
JD: come on then, someone must do it
[collective shake of heads]
JD: OK, he stays
Never said otherwise about Israel (although they'd still struggle to beat Macedonia and Armenia at the same time...). We still should've beaten them twice under Kerr.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Main point I was making Kerr had a group as handy as our Euro 2012 group. Do you disagree?
Go on, don't be shy and elaborate - how have I done this? That's the snide suggestion after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Agree. Even think he was a little hard done by the way it went down but he'd need to take a look in the mirror over some of his Trap criticisms.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
a couple of things
1) the days of Kerr and Staunton were crap. No rose tinted spectacles here.
2) Trappatoni is not the worst thing to happen to Irish football. He had some great achievements with this team even if he never had a great performance.
My hope and belief after Staunton was that we needed a fresh approach in terms of tactics, formation and youth progression. We got that in the first year even though he focussed on continuity instead of revamping the squad and bringing through fresh players. I have had huge reservations about his approach to management of players, his tactical awareness and his commitment level from Squad #1. From my perspective he was the wrong choice for us at the time (though i was so excited at the time). He is not the man for the future. His faults are glaring and he makes no attempt to acknowledge or address them.
1) Tactically limited.
2) Doesnt care about communication problems.
3) Man management is atrocious.
4) Doesnt care to watch games involving Irish players.
5) Is reluctant to play form premiership players and favours players one or sometimes two divisions lower than premiership where there are other, better options.
6) Is reluctant to give youth a chance. His hand has been forced in many changes he has made.
7) The areas he did improve when he was hired have become bigger weaknesses than they were before (when was the last time we conceded 9 goals in 3 consecutive games? When was the last time we conceded 6 at home in one game?).
8) Ignores the inherent strengths of our psyche - fighting spirit, never say die, we always have a chance attitude.
9) He unreasonably and detrimentally belittles the ability of our players and our player pool. How will this help us believe that we should even be on the same park as Spain, Germany, Croatia etc...?
10) His approach to the areas i had hoped to see improvements in post-Staunton are archaic. He is not the progressive thinker I had thought he was.
Despite what we did achieve with Trappatoni and notwithstanding that i had serious reservations about him from very early on, he is NOT the man for the present and he is certainly NOT the man for the future.
It's hilarious, I'm not sure if the people advocating him have ever even seen Ciaran Clark. Spend some time with a villa fan and see what they think about his reliability at centre back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
But what do Celtic, Ipswich and Leeds fans think of O'Dea? At least Clark's playing in a top league, something O'Dea is yet to do.
Who cares what fans of clubs think? O'Dea is a slow, fairly cumbersome defender who until Friday had performed well for us. Clark isn't particularly slow but he's very clumsy, indisciplined and gives away lots of fouls due to his poor positioning. Maybe he would rise to international football but in his appearances to date he hasn't.
Fortunately O'Dea was sharp enough to save Wilson's áss once or twice on Tuesday night.
I think O'Dea has a very good reading of the game. He's good at intercepting balls. His obvious drawback, however, is his lack of pace.
Does it matter? Ask Bayern fans what they thought of Podolski and Klose, they wouldn't have especially kind words and yet were and are incredible players for Germany surpassing the level of players they benched behind at club level. Different teams and different systems. It's a bit redundant pointing out a players troublesome club situation when he's playing well for us because frankly that's all that matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by boovidge
Just reading this mornings Irish Times articles by Emmet Malone and Paddy Agnew. Unbelievable stuff (it is the FAI so in fact very believable). Trapatonni camp want some type of written confirmation from the FAI to confirm that all of Trap's people are still employed. They also want clarification from the FAI about the wording of the last part of the FAI statement "working closely with the manager". That is from Agnew and from Malone we have what most of use already guessed at. The only reason Trap is still in the job is because the FAI could not afford to pay him off. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...325455456.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...325455442.html
This is not going to work out for anybody.