Delaney Doesn't Know Theres A Crisis

Part of the problem is the power and influence the so called grass roots have. of course they support Delaney - he's made no attempt to take them on and put in place a structure for player development that'll effect them. how do you reckon they'd react to following the Spanish example on competitive underage games? What would they do without the chance to win, at all costs, an under 11 league title?

Just because some at different levels are defending him does not mean he's doing a good job for the long term development of the game.

Macy, this answers a question I asked in the FAI Governance thread - is the structure efficient? 61 members from a range of often disparate (and competing?) stakeholders must ratify strategic decisions taken by an Executive which they hold accountable means that even if JD and the Executive had balls the size of oranges nothing could get done because some tosser representing Defence Forces (as an example of what I assume is arelatively irrelevant stakeholder these days - just as Oxford & Cambridge Universities have Council positions in the FA, or did) might vote against it. So, isn't this debate now making progress?

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Originally Posted by Macy

Part of the problem is the power and influence the so called grass roots have. of course they support Delaney - he's made no attempt to take them on and put in place a structure for player development that'll effect them. how do you reckon they'd react to following the Spanish example on competitive underage games? What would they do without the chance to win, at all costs, an under 11 league title?

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Good post. thats what i mean about need to have the balls to make tough decisions and stand by them. Certain things need to be non-negotiable.

The so called grass roots carpet bombed todays Irish Times letters page in support of their leader Delaney. Laughable stuff.

But does the governance structure of the FAI allow for ballsy decisions to be made? In one sense what you're crying out for here is an autocratic dictator but one with the right plan. Instead the CEO has to implement what his Council members are constitutionally compelling him to do. Of course you can also argue that JD is happy to appease the most powerful blocks of stakeholders because that's what keeps him in his well-paid job. These are the issues that proper appraisal of the FAI's Governance structure should address.

If it's OK by the rest of you I may copy these last few posts into the Governance thread. There've been more pertinent issues raised here in the last 2 hours than any article by Malone or Fanning.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

The so called grass roots carpet bombed todays Irish Times letters page in support of their leader Delaney. Laughable stuff.

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Laughable because it supports Delaney or laiughable because they're an entrenched / untouchable vested interest? What would be interesting is a letter to the IT from a Council member complaining about Delaney. That would add weight. Instead the only published complaint came from a disgruntled fan, the "sack the board" brigade which I tend to ignore.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Macy, this answers a question I asked in the FAI Governance thread - is the structure efficient? 61 members from a range of often disparate (and competing?) stakeholders must ratify strategic decisions taken by an Executive which they hold accountable means that even if JD and the Executive had balls the size of oranges nothing could get done because some tosser representing Defence Forces (as an example of what I assume is arelatively irrelevant stakeholder these days - just as Oxford & Cambridge Universities have Council positions in the FA, or did) might vote against it. So, isn't this debate now making progress?

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Way wide of the mark. The 61 don't ratify, they nod their heads.

Delaney defends all his decisions on the basis of board approval (that's him + 9). He boasted recently that the council are fed a board report at their 4-times per year meetings. Its a free lunch then.

God forbid something like Delaney's massive undeserved contract extension til 2015 be put to the Council to be ratified. Someone might have queried it! That would be more democratic but not the case under his regime.

And above all, is he the best we can do? There's a ready-made replacement living back in Ireland...Niall Quinn.

Delaney at it again!

http://www.joe.ie/euro-2012/euro-201...land-0026333-1

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Originally Posted by Macy

Part of the problem is the power and influence the so called grass roots have. of course they support Delaney - he's made no attempt to take them on and put in place a structure for player development that'll effect them. how do you reckon they'd react to following the Spanish example on competitive underage games? What would they do without the chance to win, at all costs, an under 11 league title?

Just because some at different levels are defending him does not mean he's doing a good job for the long term development of the game.

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Thats an interesting point, like most associations, the leader isn't going to bite off the hand that feeds him. The thing is though, Sean kelly when elected president of the GAA, his main goal was to open up croke park, and he said as much at the time. Now when he was first elected, there was nowhere near a 2/3s manority support to do so. But yet he did it, so it can be done. The point I'm making is a strong leader can direct an association/organisation along a path he so wishes, by being a good politician, and a stern enforcer when needs be. Delaney is certainly a good politician.

I take on board your original point, not sure about the conclusion resulting from the fact that at u11 win at all costs mentality, but when I was a young fella, and i think the attitude has changed even more so now, until we were about 13 there was no emphasis on winning, it was all about enjoying ourselves. Added Rant : Which actually p1ssed me off, because we had a good underage side, and some very good individual players, 1 in particular, who fell by the wayside, becasue of no proper management or scouts or motivation to continue on.

Does anyone have any inside knowledge of the runnings of the schoolboy leagues particularly the DDSL?
I was reading a piece someone posted in another thread about Wim Koevermans and the work he was doing and how some of the ideas were obstructed by the Schoolboy leagues. This came up again on Off The Ball on Tuesday where they had a youth coach Antonio Mantero (Portuguese, I think) who seems quiet passionate Irish football at grassroots level. He talked about a lot of recurring points in youth development like smaller pitches, more touches for players, a ideology of youth coaching where the focus is on playing and developing skill rather than winning and how these ideas don't fit into the schoolboy league setup. They attract young players, win leagues, build on their reputation, attract more young players, win leagues and so on.
From what I gather their focus is on results and not the development of players. Any restructuring of the FAI structure from top to bottom would need to have some backing of the schoolboy clubs and how likely are they to vote for something that could bring an end to their environment?

If anyone is interested here is a link to the Off The Ball interview, It was on Tuesday 26th, on Part 3 about 30 minutes in.
http://www.newstalk.ie/programmes/al...l/listen-back/

And here is a link to the guy's (Antonio Mantero) blog http://www.thecoachdiary.com/ which I think makes for some interesting reading for anyone interested in grassroots football in Ireland

good article from rte.ie
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish/2012/0627/326781-alan-cawleys-airtricity-league-blog/?utm_source=NewsWhip

Yep, I think Quinn would be a capable and popular choice as per Alf'ssuggestion.

I've actually got a lot on today so don't have time to inspect the constitution but it looks like the Board has full control over strategic decisions. The Board is made up of honorary roles and the heads of the main permanent committees (finance, domestic, underage, development, legal & corporate, international, national league) and the CEO. This is 10 in total because some of the honorary roles automatically invoke chairmanship of some of the committees. The CEO sits on the finance, legal & corporate and national league committees but not domestic, underage, international or development.

The Council is responsible for monitoring the FAI and the FAI board, and has the power to take "such decisions as are necessary for the effective governance and control of The Association".

As Alf says, Council meets 4 times a year and special meetings can also be convened. These meetings are to discuss the reports fed to them by the Board and to provide feedback to the Board - but seemingly only if the Board asks for it (rule 15(h). Rule 15 (d) is interesting:

The Council shall have the power to remove the Board and/or the Honorary Officers and/or any individual member of the Council by a two-thirds majority vote of those present and voting on a motion submitted 14 days in advance of a meeting of the Council and signed by at least 20 Council members.

So, does this mean only the entire Board can be removed, rather than an individual? I suppose special meetings can be convened to remove individuals or discuss their pay.

What looks odd to me - I don't know how it works in other organisations - is that the Board and senior management appear to be more or less the same. Let's take a typical company. It has shareholders, a Board of Directors, and full-time management. The Board's job is to monitor management on behalf of shareholders but also to steer a strategic path for the company and delegate the running of the company to management. Shareholders can hold the Board to account by a re-election process and the Board can fire managers.

In the FAI, Council is essentially the shareholders, but there isn't a clear distinction between the Board and the management. The Council also includes the 5 honorary Board roles but I don't think they can vote unless it's in their capacity as another representative (say, of a LOI club?). So, it would appear that the bridge between Council and the Board is the Honorary members, who each has a foot in both camps. The Honorary positions are subject to maximum terms and re-election (President, VP, Hon Treasurer, Hon Sec) so a stronger degree of Council control exists here I suppose. The Chairman of the National League is an honorary Board member and serves a term as nominated by that committee, I think.

I don't see any means of removing the non-Honorary Board members other than full removal of the Board (15d) or a special meeting. Each method requires at least 20 of 61 Council members to propose such an action, followed by a vote requiring a 2/3 majority - so removal or sanction of a Board member would appear quite tough.

Other than the 5 Honorary Board members, the remaining Council membership consists of 22 LOI club representatives, 18 provincial reps (weighted by size of province), and samll numbers of reps from Junior, Schools, Womens, Universities, Defence Forces, Referees etc. LOI clubs have a fair amount of collective power then - more than I'd thought.

The thanks button is missing today, so thanks Uncle Joe - v interesting. Irish Soccer on its Knees blog is very good. Informed, insider opinion is really useful.

Where do the schools representatives fit into the governance structure (so how much influence do they have - nominally anyway?)?

They are represented on (but don't dominate) the international, underage, development and finance committees - the heads of each of these is a Board member.

The SFAI and FAIS has 6 Council seats.

I’ve heard talk of reform for 20-25 years and every time, people mention how young lads are being sent onto a full size pitch which promotes hoofball. I’ve never, ever heard anyone dispute the fact that putting eleven year olds on a full sized pitch is plain wrong. Everyone I know of believes it’s dumb. Therefore, why do we still do it? I watched my nephew a few weeks ago who is 12 and up to my knee. He played on a full sized pitch but, despite having a good touch and a good football brain for his age, he was forced to hoof it like everyone else. They have no option on that size of a pitch. Why do we still put our young lads on these pitches? Who thinks it’s a good idea?

There was a good piece I saw in the Indo (English version) about how, as a kid in this part of the world, you are always taught ‘if in doubt, boot it out’. We’ve all heard it, we’ve probably subscribed to it on some level but it promotes hoofball. I’ve heard it at LOI grounds when defenders come under pressure from the same people who demand a passing game. Our mentality of ‘hoof it’ is wrong and if we want to produce ball players like Xavi, Pirlo and Iniesta, we have to change it.

That Portuguese bloke's blog asks what is the underage committee:

COMPOSITION OF UNDERAGE COMMITTEE
a. Four representatives from the S.F.A.I.
b. Two representatives from the F.A.I.S.
c. Two representatives from the W.F.A.I.
d. One representative from the FAI National League participant clubs
e. One representative from the Youth Committee
f. One representative to be elected by Council.
g. One representative to be selected by the Selection Sub Committee.

In selecting this member, the Selection Sub Committee shall select only from the S.F.A.I, F.A.I.S and W.F.A.I., on the clear understanding that none of the aforementioned affiliates shall have more than five members on this Committee. The person selected may not be a representative of the same affiliate as the person elected.


The Rule book does not define the objectives of the underage committee and (e) above is the only mention of the Youth committee.

Delaney again. On the plane home from the Manchester United match (a great victory for Irish football), supposedly asked twice to stop using the f- and c-words, plus singing "we beat the scum". A new low...

https://twitter.com/Martink82/status/290581476708347904
https://twitter.com/dv9876/status/290596502303297536

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John Delaney. 500k a year CEO of FAI. **** faced. He's buying drinks for the whole plane and taxis home for all.

John Delaney has promised us a sing song but only when we get airborne. He wants the de icing to happen first.

John Delaney not buying drinks. All sobered up. Plane going nowhere. Mood is not good on the ground. Turns out John Delaney is sound.

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAg2Tn5CcAAzmHc.jpg

How can this even be real? He's becoming a parody of himself.

Becoming?

Can I play devil's advocate and posit this might not be true? It's a few Twitter accounts and a picture. Could be one guy trolling and a bit of a pile-on effect afterwards. I'll wait and see if a few others come forward, if his behavior is as stated surely the press would be looking into it.

Was Delaney just in England for the United/Liverpool match?

There are at least two people talking about it.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

How can this even be real? He's becoming a parody of himself.

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It does bring up a separate question of context.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

It does bring up a separate question of context.

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What about the context? In the sense he's taken his embarrassing antics from the rowdy pub scene or the gathering of supporters before/after a football game into the new realm of public air travel, no family spared?

I don't necessarilly mind him supporting Manchester United and going to see them play. Alot of the biggest fans of Irish football support both United and Liverpool. However, if he behaved like he's alleged, then it is absolutely shocking and serious questions should be asked of him.

To be fair though, he is innocent until proven guilty.

On an equally pressing matter, does anybody know if Trap has been going to watch games live over the past few weeks? Would be great if he was going up to Derby to check up on Hendrick and even O'Brien, the Irish lads at Hull, or checking up on the Irish contingent at Wolves, who must be playing very poorly, let alone going to see our lads in the Premiership. Is he actively pursuing Pilkington and making contact with Gibson to try and get him back into the fold for the rest of the campaign (Gibson behaved poorly imo but we need our best 11). It would also be wonderful if he could make an effort to see the likes of young lads like Carruthers or Grealish who both turned down England to play with us. I mean you could say that is beyond Trap's remit, but I would hold the view that it is the job of an international manager and especially one on Trap's salary to leave no stone unturned. In Grealish's case, he is arguably the biggest talent in the English academy system and could be top class. I know that Brian Kerr, Mick and Stan would have done it and I would expect Trap to also.

Delaney's club support is of no importance to me. In fact, it would be almost better if he had no LoI-biases as such a major figure in the ruling organisation, as long as it was matched with competent governance. Oh well. I was just wondering if his trip to England had involved anything actually important to his position.

Did this story turn up in any news outlets?

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

What about the context? In the sense he's taken his embarrassing antics from the rowdy pub scene or the gathering of supporters before/after a football game into the new realm of public air travel, no family spared?

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there's a degree of invasion of privacy as well.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

On an equally pressing matter, does anybody know if Trap has been going to watch games live over the past few weeks? Would be great if he was going up to Derby to check up on Hendrick and even O'Brien, the Irish lads at Hull, or checking up on the Irish contingent at Wolves, who must be playing very poorly, let alone going to see our lads in the Premiership.

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According to Tony O'Donoghue, he was at the Derby - Brighton game at the weeekend: https://twitter.com/Corktod/status/290257484147458048

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Del Bosque has the best squad in the world but travels to Goodison to watch Michu. Wonder where Trapattoni was?"he was at Brighton v derby,

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Derby lost 2-1, with Hendrick scoring the consolation goal
The goals from the game are online here: http://www.skysports.com/video/inlin...395199,00.html
Nice finish from close range

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Originally Posted by Bungle

Is he actively pursuing Pilkington and making contact with Gibson to try and get him back into the fold for the rest of the campaign (Gibson behaved poorly imo but we need our best 11).

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Don't know about Gibson, but it was mentioned on Premier Soccer Saturday that Pilkington was in the process of claimining his Irish passport

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Originally Posted by Bungle

It would also be wonderful if he could make an effort to see the likes of young lads like Carruthers or Grealish who both turned down England to play with us. I mean you could say that is beyond Trap's remit, but I would hold the view that it is the job of an international manager and especially one on Trap's salary to leave no stone unturned. In Grealish's case, he is arguably the biggest talent in the English academy system and could be top class. I know that Brian Kerr, Mick and Stan would have done it and I would expect Trap to also.

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Not sure if that's really what he should be doing. While these players are still in the underage setup, I'd prefer to see their direct manager keep in touch with them to make sure they're happy.

<EDIT>

Jack Grealish's brother is an irregular poster on ybig.ie, but he posted this today: http://www.ybig.ie/forum/jack-greali...9.html#1112409

Regardless of whether this alleged episode has been reported accurately or not, practically everything about this clown makes me physically cringe. What would it take to get shot of him? Consensus from the bosses of the other sports families?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

According to Tony O'Donoghue, he was at the Derby - Brighton game at the weeekend: https://twitter.com/Corktod/status/290257484147458048
Derby lost 2-1, with Hendrick scoring the consolation goal

Don't know about Gibson, but it was mentioned on Premier Soccer Saturday that Pilkington was in the process of claimining his Irish passport
Not sure if that's really what he should be doing. While these players are still in the underage setup, I'd prefer to see their direct manager keep in touch with them to make sure they're happy.

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Really positive if Trap has been going to games and taking in a game like the Derby-Brighton one.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

there's a degree of invasion of privacy as well.

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How much of a degree? I understand the claims regarding Delaney have yet to be verified by a more reliable source/outlet, but a public figure making a show of him or herself in the public eye surely leaves his or her behaviour fair game for public comment. If what has been reported is true, his behaviour was probably the more intrusive/invasive.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

How much of a degree? I understand the claims regarding Delaney have yet to be verified by a more reliable source/outlet, but a public figure making a show of him or herself in the public eye surely leaves his or her behaviour fair game for public comment. If what has been reported is true, his behaviour was probably the more intrusive/invasive.

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It probably comes under a wider discussion about social media, at what point does a photo of a well known person out and about cross the line between public interest and invasion of privacy. For what it's worth, I'd have to think long and hard before I'd post something like that on twitter.

And if it isn't true, it's some random person taking a picture of him on a flight and trying to stir it up for, I dunno, a laugh or something?

You'd think if there was something in this someone in the media would have talked to the airline or flight crew or some other passenger would have contacted the press. I just find it very odd that such an incident didn't become larger news. Or any news so far.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

How much of a degree? I understand the claims regarding Delaney have yet to be verified by a more reliable source/outlet, but a public figure making a show of him or herself in the public eye surely leaves his or her behaviour fair game for public comment. If what has been reported is true, his behaviour was probably the more intrusive/invasive.

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Seeing as the claims have not been verified by any source anywhere, isn't it nonsensical to hypothesise about how such behaviour if it did happen, should or could be commented upon?

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

And if it isn't true, it's some random person taking a picture of him on a flight and trying to stir it up for, I dunno, a laugh or something?

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Then that would be defamation; not merely an unwarranted invasion of privacy.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Seeing as the claims have not been verified by any source anywhere, isn't it nonsensical to hypothesise about how such behaviour if it did happen, should or could be commented upon?

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Fair point. I shall hypothesise no longer. :)

Trapattoni watching Derby again today, according to the Times: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...329048263.html
it's actually Keogh he's watching, not Hendrick as everyone assumed