Ward and Given have been woeful.
Shay's positioning has been gash.
Ward and Given have been woeful.
Shay's positioning has been gash.
Get McClean and Long upfront and Gibson on in midfield and we could actually win this. O'Neill has talked about playing McClean on the right but alos putting upfront. He is an excellent header of the ball and his pace coupled with Long's would cause that Italian defense real problems. Given should not be playing and neither should Whelan.
But we can only make three subs Noely.
Agree though.
Long & McClean please.
It'll be Green and Cox!
O'Shea is so bloody clumsy
An utter donkey sometimes!Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
we are due a goal!!
Nay!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinpants
There was a tap in there had someone reacted in time.
Pretty easy to fool this ref. Theatrical dive from Ballotelli.
Quality goal from Baliotelli. (sp?)
What is Andrews having a hissy fit for? You pulled his shirt. It's a foul.
We are soooo bad at the most basic of things its insane.
Thank God its over, a better performance, lets hope we can improve a bit, Andrews will miss a few games, so a chance for some changes
I second that, thank god this tournament is over for us.
We are on top playing some nice football and then Given decides to go long ball for the last 7/8 mins of the game. McGeady who was playing well should never have been taken off. Keane should have been the first to go. This was a perfect game to bring on McClean and Gibson. Very frustrating. O'Shea lucky not to be sent off. Andrews was very good again as was Dunne and St Ledger. Duff played well but should have done much better with that last chance he had. Doyle played well and I wonder would he be a better midfielder than forward. Should have been teamed up with Long from the start.
That's giving him credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
O'Shea is one of the worst players ever to pull on a green shirt. So glad that Balotelli showed him up for what he is in the end.
Don't know about any of you but my initial emotion at the final whistle was not one of bitter regret, like usual, but one where I don't want to see any of our players again for a very long time. Ok, I am excited about the likes of McClean and other youngsters who might be coming along, but the old guard were very badly exposed in this tournement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I'd defend Duff from that but otherwise would agree.
Well there's an exciting young player called Paul Green Trap is keen to give some game time to....Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
I think perhaps it was always going to be a bridge too far, I think now we will have to start looking back
to the future, make some changes and bring in a few good men. Perhaps it is time for the godfather to get the bullet to.
We have seen everything in this campaign, the good the bad and the ugly, and singing in the rain.
This tournament was all about blind loyalty from Trap, which devalues most of the worth he built up over the last couple of years. Blind loyalty to Whelan, Duff, Keane, O'Shea - all poison during this tournament and all kept on the pitch for far too long. Duff didn't have the beating of the full back today - McLean should have been on in his place. Keane was played in the wrong position again and we had no threat up front, even for the long ball game. And once again we couldn't string two passes together.
Back to the basics, way back. And Trap needs to lead the charge or get out.
I love Robbie Keane, we're so lucky to have him, but there's no spring left in his step and I think it is time for him to step away from international duty.
Thank f**k that's over.
Time to start again. Blood some new players and maybe reconsider our "plan B".
We're in a mighty tough group for the WC.
Just to think, through some stoke of magic, if we qualified for the WC we actually could jeopardise the qualification chances of Germany. What a travesty that would be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's Son
The lads played their hearts out and it wasn't good enough. They're beyond criticism. But couldn't everyone see that the substitutions wre just random introductions of good players? Gibson could have slotted in alongside Whelan and Andrews, McClean could have come on and we'd have been able to retain the ball, pass it better and attack from the flanks.
I'm genuinely really fond of Trap, but I honestly don't think he can read the modern game. Yeah, Owls fan (who's opinion I respect more than many here) will bang on about we qualified and all that but when we engage teams we can compete. When we engage them with the right people on the pitch we can be better. It's no guarantee of success but I think it improves your chances. In full fairness to Trap, he was much needed after the Kerr & Stan limp failures where we became non-entities. Now I think we have the platform to be competitive in qualifying except now I think we can make qualifying a far less stressful affair by just taking teams on. This is a good Italy team, we lost, whoopy ding.
I'm pretty sure if you use the search function on this website for my username and the word 'engage' you'll find despairing wishes going back to the Kerr era of us dropping the draw away, win at home mentality. We're good enough to take lesser teams on and win, home and away. And I maintain that Sweden & Denmark are what we can aspire to. Serial qualifiers who from time to time do something of note, but they engage teams in qualifying rather than being coy & cagey with them.
Excellent post Stutts. Bang on the money.
Just seen seen this on twitter
Pass completion % of starting elevens. Italy [83, 83, 77, 90, 80, 73, 62, 67, 80, 77, 79] Ire [50, 63, 62, 61, 53, 64, 36, 58, 48, 60, 51]
I... have become comfortably numb.
An hour or so later I can just about bring myself to spill my thought on tonight out. I haven't put much blame Traps way so far, as I genuinely didn't see that things would have been much different no matter what he did. Tonight was different. Tonight was so so different.
Italy were there for the taking tonight. We should have had at least a point out of that game, but the manager made some dreadful decisions. Anyone could see that Whelan wasn't at the races tonight. Whether that was because he was tired or it wasn't doesn't really matter. Gibson should have been on at half time. Doyle was doing well, but Keane never threatened all night. Long should have come on for him with at least half an hour to go.
The substitutions that were made amounted to no more that sticking Walters into the mixer and lumping it up to the big man. It was never going to work, especially with that referee (who was diabolical). Andrews was stupid to get himself sent off but I can fully understand his frustration.
I get most frustrated most by the "whatdya expect, we're not Barcelona" brigade, who think striving for the levels achieved by the likes of Denmark / Sweden - that of consistent competence & ruthlessness in qualifying - is madness. Self-improvement will always be a losing battle so long as the mentality persists that tonight was as good as things can get (and how dare anyone believe in anything better - shur hasn't Trap achieved enough?)
Irish fatalism, coupled with Trap's own lack of belief in our players blinded us to the notion that it would only take a few tweaks to make things better.
I sat on the couch as the horror unfolded.
Tears welled up in frustration at his substitutions. I really am lost for words as to what the hell it was we witnessed tonight?
The only people I feel sorry for are Andrews and Sledge. The rest can go and...
Disgusted at that.
I'm keeping my knife in the drawer til Almaty... then we shall see...
EGO SUM BONNIE!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...90946482_n.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Really? O'Shea was the only one tonight that I thought played below capacity. The rest put in an honest shift and were not good enough, but equally were lambs thrown into the slaughter by persisting with an outdated shape against the players' own wishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
This is why people complaining about starting sides, system or use of subs is missing the point entirely. We across the board have a very poor pool of players who struggle to do the basics. Trap and the old brigade have done incredibly well to bring us to to two sets of playoffs, I'd fear with a few retirements replaced by squad players in mediocre premiership sides that things could get ugly. We're staring at the end of our golden era and into difficult times, getting hammered in tournament finals will soon be a luxury we'll yearn for.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
O'Shea has had an awful tournament, far and away our worst player. (Whelan not too far behind)Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'd feel sympathy for the front 4 having little to no supply but O'Shea had a chance to do his job and failed miserably in every game. He'd be the first one I'd be looking to replace for August, distribution from the back is absolutely essential when we don't have a superior midfield. While I think our problems are mostly with our pool of available players and I'd stay away from individual criticism I think O'Shea is one worthy of it, he was truly woeful.
It would be interesting to see who those stats apply to. Based on how the team is lined up on the various news sites, I'm guessing:Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Given: 50%
O'Shea: 63%
St. Ledger: 62%
Dunne: 61%
Ward: 53%
McGeady: 64%
Whelan: 36%
Andrews: 58%
Duff: 48%
Keane: 60%
Doyle: 51%
Shocking anyway, regardless of individual culprits. Only McGeady (or whoever had 64%) had a higher pass completion percentage than any of the Italian players.
Nah. Have you seen James McCarthy in action? The boy can read the game and pass the ball. That's what we're crying out for. At the moment Martinez is doing a good job at fixing him into a good player. Maybe Brendan Rodgers will take him to Liverpool and turn him into the finished article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Centre midfield is where games are won and lost. If we can get McCarthy in there along with Fahey or... don't say it too loud... Stephen Ireland then that has to be an improvement on Whelan/Andrews.
Josh was gack tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The other players played okay for an all too short period of the match. In fact I neglected to say anything about Duff who has been okay.
But overall Andrews and Sledge have done what they needed to do.
I don't accept that the players shouldn't take some blame for our shape. They should have just played football if they had any courage and felt what trap wanted was stupid. They didn't. And that is what has been sorely lacking since that night in Budapest.