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The two are actually compatible views. Picking the right players and allocating them the right roles can enhance your ability to pass the ball more incisively. I think in one sense it's a simple game, in an other it's quite complicated.Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
Agree completely - it's just a question of how you weight the emphasis and I do believe some people talk formations, tactics and systems too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Not a bad effort from Maloney in the chair tonight, though Giles tends to talk to him as if he's still talking to a slow witted O'Herlihy.
Maloney corrected Dunphy on some stats to do with Ronaldo, he also cracked a joke of sorts which Giles didn't get and thought it was stupid.
Ive been a big fan of Moloney ever since he first appeared on the rugrats.
https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/im...2kw8oiHEgIaanv
This is exactly what I think too - give him a piece of play to analyse and he is superb. He identifies weaknesses and errors better than any other pundit I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
The problem is that he does basically no research whatsoever into the teams and players he's going to see, so he's sometimes making dated stertypes about teams, like for example the Germans being defensive because they used to be like that 10 years ago. It's also why he always says 'we can only go on what we see' - because he doesn't know much about the teams other than what he's seeing at that point.
Giles and Dunphy made eejits of themselves last night over Ronaldo. Went down a rat hole with a futile discussion on whether he is a great player. Every argument they made in favour of Messi being great, Ronaldo not so great could be inverted with a different example. And they were just plain wrong about Maradona in relation to tracking back and berating teammates. CR7 did the business last night and they should have left it at that.
I predicted that discussion earlier. Whenever Real Madrid or Portugal play, it just turns into a Ronaldo isn't a great player diatribe. Who cares whether he's "a great player" or not. One of reasons put forward was that he lacked the integrity of the truly great players like Zidane. No mention that the latter got sent off in a WC final for head-butting. That said, it is amazing the way that Ronaldo isn't required (or doesn't bother) to track back when possession is lost. If he didn't do that for Ireland for Trap he'd find himself not in the squad ;) That must leave a gaping hole in the Portuguese defence but presumably they have some tactic to cover this (extra midfielder?). I wish this was discussed. If McGeady or Duffer didn't protect the full back, we'd be crucified even more that we are in that area.
Darragh Maloney has done well so far.
I note the cautious 'so far' bit :)
The Ronaldo stuff is tedious and I disagree in the strongest possible terms with Giles and Dunphy. Ronaldo has a face for smacking but he is a great player. He’s done it at every level for many years. Ronaldo has scored important goals at important times in all sorts of matches. Yes he has his faults but so did Maradona and every other player on the planet.
I have to laugh at Dunphy – not so long ago he was saying that Kevin Doyle, John O’Shea, Richard Dunne, Damian Duff and Robbie Keane were world class (in one of his rants about Trap) and yet he will also say that Ronaldo isn’t a top player. It’s that sort of nonsense that destroys his credibility and makes him just pure entertainment rather than a proper pundit.
Well spotted :) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Yeah - Giles tends to view everything in a literal sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Hyperbole gets the red card from John.
If anyone refers to players "feeling 10 foot high tonight" Giles will respond with something like "that's wrong Bill, they wouldn't be 10 foot high".
I dont get to see too much of the lads other than clips on Youtube or when I get to watch a rerun of a match on RTE that my ma has recorded. However good to read some interesting posts on the subject here.Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
What the above quote warrants is a nice premeditated package of clips containing some of the contradictions Dunphy /Giles have made over the recent months/years whilst trying to hammer the manager. It would make for good viewing IMO.
Not sure who is best placed to pull together such a piece......Owlsfan perchance? Come on you know you want to.....
Saw one a while back on YouTube when Dunphy was lambasting Liverpool a few years back for a performance against Barcelona (I think) where he said, whilst berating others, that "Gerrard is a nothing player".Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
Then there was another clip straight after that with him having a go at an English manager (probably Eriksson) where he was lambasting him for not being able to get the best out of "world class players like Steven Gerrard".
This is it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiCdEUSlmcw
Does Dunphy still assert that Busquets is a "nothing player"?
Just saw this. Very very funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxAR4...eature=related
I assert that Busquets is a nothing player. An odious little whiny shoite.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I could care less that he is a good player with incredible sense of positioning. He rolls around like a mine victim and has such a punchable face.
Dunphy called the German team ordinary before the start tonight.
They're not ordinary but they're far from extraordinary either. They are a bit one paced and can be got at.
Not saying they're extraordinary but they deserve better than to be labelled as ordinary.
If it's a Spain Germany final they'll give them a better game than they did in the WC semi and the Euro final in '08.
Yeah, they're a very slick outfit and they scored 4 with essentially a backup forward line. I was a bit frustrated by them actually, I think they can play better.
Giles and Dunphy lack any sort of context. You can't just call Germany ordinary, ordinary to who? Calling them ordinary completely devalues the competition as they're the second best team in the thing. Dunphy said they have a lot of ordinary players, who are these 'ordinary' players? Its like they use a different barometer when judging Ireland, players like Duff, Dunne and Keane are somehow 'great' but Khedira playing for the biggest club in the world is 'ordinary' Ozil is 'ordinary' :confused:
Its like CR7, they would gloat someone like Rooney for some reason I don't know, maybe because he displays the traditional characteristics of footballers they would've grown up with/played with but knock Ronaldo who is far and away superior to Rooney. Giles is horrendous for this.
Agree with you there alright. A lot of that stuff goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
Yeah man. I'll always like them though deep down. Watching when the 4 lads were on Miriam O'Callaghan's show hahaha. Mon the lads.
Can someone tell me how Gilesy speaks with an Irish accent, even though he's lived in UK since he was 15?
I think its a personal thing, or rather how much you elect to become your environment. I have an aunt for example, who if you listen closely you can hear the remains of her Irish accent but only just, her brother, who has spent a comparable period of time in Britain, but you would swear he never left the parish. Both would be Giles era.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishultra
My family say I still have my accent and it hasn't softened at all, yet friends here say I sound more Irish after I get back from holiday. I would hate to lose my accent though. I think you can chose not to.
Any of the other UK based lads on this one?
My mum and dad have been in the UK 40+ years now (since their late teens) and both still have strong accents. Though, the English Inlaws have stated when my dad has been with his family for a day or two it seems to get even stronger. So Giles accent is not a surprise.
On the other side of the coin, a good school friend of mine from Manchester went back to Roscommon when he was about 12. I hadnt spoken to him for 25 years or so until a few months ago and I was expecting a big tattie munching culchie accent - but no, a broad Manc still - Took me by surprise!
I have a brother who went to Germany when he was 20 many years ago. Now speaks English with a strong German accent :) I have another brother who has lived in England for 30+ years. Not a trace of an accent.
O'Herlihy to Panel: "Do you think Gerrard's cramp might be down to tiredness?"
Reasonable possibilty Bill, reasonable possibility.
I fell around the place laughing last night as psuedo intellectual Eamon Dunphy tried to explain the cultural differences that have dogged Spanish teams in the past. With brilliantly sharp and insightful thinking he mused that the Spanish players decided not to sing the national anthem to show unity between Catalan and non-Catalan players. The official Spanish national anthem has no words..........
Ha funny - I heard that before about their anthem but wasn't sure. He was also talking about how Iniesta and Fabregas played in the same Barca youth team as 16 year old's - the fact there is a full three years in the age difference doesn't seem to matter to Eamo !!Quote:
Originally Posted by PatJR
anyone else see Giles's analysis pre-match of the two keepers? They were playing a number of clips of both making spectacular saves and it was as clear as day giles was just reading a script 'here comes a save from buffon against X, and here he is against Y'. It certainly wasnt himself who had picked out the saves. Surely there's some one better than Houghton for co-commentary on the final too?
are you saying it's a bad thing if he does some research (or more likely works with a researcher) to prepare a series of clips before a game?Quote:
Originally Posted by EAFC_rdfl
Im saying, he was handed a script and told heres whats coming up in this clip that we have prepared for you, and that its made out to be his own work when clearly its not. I would say its obviously NOT a bad thing if he does some research before a match, but from what I could see he didnt do that.
maybe eamo looked into it more deeply than we give him credit for..... under Franco there were words put to it but there have been none since 1978. Words have since been avoided to avoid causing offence to the differant regions that like to see themselves as separate to spain such as the Basques and Catalans.Quote:
Originally Posted by PatJR
Now now, no letting "Eamo" off the hook. He said they don't sing the words because for the unity of the team. There are no words to sing as George Hamilton stated on at least 5 occasions so he mustn't listen to Danger Here.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Laughing Bill to Giles: "Castilas had a great game, John".
Giles: "He didn't have much to do Bill.
Bill: "It's time for an ad break...."
Did Giles really say that about Casillas? He made saves when they counted and dealt with sdangerous inswinging corners well enough, maybe getting lucky with the bounce on one occasion.
That's what I recall Dunphy saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
The enigma of the wordless Spanish anthem works both ways, a call for unity or the cause of a lack of vigour.
When Spain were flopping at Finals, the Spanish FA did a lengthy investigation in 2006 to find out why, in the end they concluded that the fact that there were no words to the anthem was a significant factor in the lack of spirit.
Its a guarded secret that our own anthem has caused resentment and infighting amongst the players over the years.
There's been mention of sexism and violence.
I mean, any anthem that finishes off with:
".......Sho-ving Connie around the field!!!!!!" is going to be divisive.
Interesting after the game. My pal Bill looked dejected that we had won as the camera went to him immediately after the game. But what really surprised me was that Giles spoke up for Trapp having slated him in just about every previous Panel discussion. Sadlier is now trying to take the Dunphy role and the argument between him and Brady was interesting, although Brady's argument was weak that the players should tell the manager how to play. However, I was pleased as there was balance at last in the debate, despite Tony O'Donoghue trying to tear strips off Trapp in the post match interview. He did something similar after the French game and certainly has an anti-Trap agenda/position/viewpoint.
We have been missing that over the years (Saipan aside), the Panelists and Bill disagreeing with each other. Well done RTE.
I thought it was a really strange viewing experience all round, the commentators were so dull and drab in the 2nd half. They'd literally given up long before the 80th minute which was really odd since small teams conceding late on is pretty commonplace.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Tony O'Donoghue's aggression to Trap was pathetic and unnecessary, he's there to ask question not push his own agenda.
Bill or Richie seemed genuinely ****ed off that their prepared "end of an era" tone was quashed from relevancy at the last moment of the game leaving their position much weaker. I generally like Sadlier but his call for a sacking was the utmost stupidity, I'd wondered if the editors told him to take that extreme line in the absence of Dunphy but he was taking the same stance in his column the weekend. Giles, I believe continues to lean being anti-Trap but such was the extremism from other quarters it made him appear defensive of the man. Brady was correct about a point that everyone seems intent on ignoring, the Kazakhs were quite good and are well capable of taking points off teams at home.
Too much sideshow in general, bit uncomfortable seeing your national broadcaster so vehemently opposed to the manager when the public aren't even decided on the issue. It made sense with Stan, it doesn't here. Very little talk in general about the group, the points gain, future opposition etc: they just made the whole show to be about Trap's position. Tabloid stuff.
I felt that George and Ronnie were overly harsh on the team during the Euros. Yes it was tough to watch but least we were there. There was a level to how low the dejection should have got. This dejection has carried over onto last Friday and of course it was only worsened with Fridays performance. I think George was genuinely flabbergasted with the late goals. There is little doubt both lads are desperate for Ireland to do well though.
On the panel. I like Brady but there is no doubt he is blinded by his allegiance to Trap. He was tempering optimism at the start of the Euros (rightly so) when everyone was getting carried away. Also rightly he pointed out the other night that we have just had a successful qualifying campaign under Trap (and very nearly two in a row). On the face of it, there is a lot to be content with.
They discussed the lack of optimism in the general Irish public in this team at length. And that is a key point. Despite qualifying, despite achieving good results in general, the manager and the team do not attract a large level of public support. That is a problem and unlikely to shift unless Trap changes style.
Sadlier adds a different dimension. Perhaps he is trying to be controversial to carve out a career for himself. But his arguments at least are more reasoned and supported than Dunphy's are. I also agree his calling for Trap to get the sack was ill judged and rightly pulled up on by Giles.
I think the right answer is somewhere in between. This team and management have done well but there is justifiable reason for change, to a degree in personell but more so in tactical approach.