In the midst of all the other drama, Roddy did it again. 0-3 to Mons against Athlone. 2nd Place is niiiice! :D
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In the midst of all the other drama, Roddy did it again. 0-3 to Mons against Athlone. 2nd Place is niiiice! :D
The mons had an unbelievable easy run out last night
The Rodster does it again.
Well he is the man, he gave the thumbs to signal that the Bin Laden mission should begin, thats how important a man he is.
It's been reported that the young Cork fan died earlier today.
Regardless of the boy's condition (hopefully the reports aren't true), there'll need to be some inquiry into how a group of fans were isolated like that outside the ground with no police presence.
He's still alive supposedly.
All abuzz over on ShelsChat that the rumours are true. However they are also rumours. So take from that what you will... Here's hoping they aren't true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
But yeah Charlie, there's serious questions that need to be asked as to how the hell what happened was able to happen. When we played Bohs a couple of weeks ago I counted near on 40 Gardaí inside Tolka and not to mention the roadblocks and filtering and segregation that were in place for that game and it's hard to believe that what happened would have happened if the vigilance that was in place that day were in place for last Friday's game. I thankfully missed it and only for a girl in work's leaving do intervening I would have been there with my 10 year old brother. My normal last minute process is to get down to the gate at 85 and get ready to leg it when the whistle goes. Seems like I could've been walking into the s**tstorm. I count by blessings now.
I think everyone knows why there were no cops in Tolka Park the other night. But can you make the argument that the cops are responsible for what happened? Money's tight, the Queen's coming, Shels had to do their own security. Shels did their own security; there was no trouble inside the ground. Sure, the roadblocks that were there for the bohs league cup match may have prevented that incident but that bohs match was the only game this year at Tolka with such security.
That incident took place because there is an element that does not care about the game being played on the pitch. These tribalistic, moronic scumbags are in most clubs and they are a cancer on the league. Most people don't believe it but there is a cure for cancer: communication between clubs followed by liaison with the police. Hope that youngfella lives to learn his lesson.
No one is putting the entire blame on the cops here. The thing is certain teams attract a certain element... I mean you're hardly gonna have segregation between us and Harps or Mons etc... but knowing the team involved have that element; a bit of foresight would have ensured that what happened may not have happened to the extent that it did.Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild
Regardless whether the guy involved instigated anything or not we can't use the whole "He got what he deserved attitude either".
Even when we played ye lads and there was only 60-100 etc of ye (not trying to take the p1ss but you know what I mean) it was made sure that we would keep you in the ground and the guards made sure most of our crets had gotten bored and wandered off by the time ye were alowed out.
Anyway, I'm only going on what I've been reading here and on ShelsChat so it's hard for me to really talk about the ins and outs of what happened with any certainty.
Also... when ya changing your avatar? :)
Hearing that he's after waking up thankfully.Quote:
Originally Posted by sligoman
You'd have to wonder about the mentality of the people spreading those rumours. If it wasn't tragic enough without that.
It spread from that MNS Facebook page.I see they have shut it up now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Army
Shels and Bohs for obvious reasons is classified as a high risk fixture to have that amount of gardai. I can't recall any reported incidents between Shels and any Cork team in previous years to warrant a substantial police presence.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Obviously there are 15,493 different eyewitness 'reports' floating around the internet so until the exact details over what actually happened reach the public domain there is no point in trying to analyse whether an increased police presence would have prevented this particular incident.
Well it's not necessarily a question of numbers of gardai - it's security as a whole. Who let the fans out of the stadium? If there was a shortage of Gardai, and they were keeping away fans in after the game for safety reasons, then it's all the more imperative that those fans are kept in a controlled space for the entire game. It's a failure of organisation at some link in the chain and it could (and might still) have cost a young man his life.
Irish Times reporting he's out of intensive care.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0516/1224297038451.html
Quote:
A teenager who was attacked on Friday night in Dublin has been moved out of intensive care, the Mater hospital has said.
The 16-year-old was assaulted while at a bus stop on Lower Drumcondra Road, close to the Bishop’s Palace.
The attack happened on Friday night opposite well-known pub Fagans at about 10pm. The young man sustained serious head injuries and was rushed to the Mater hospital in a critical condition. He spent most of the weekend in intensive care on a life-support machine.
A spokeswoman for the hospital said he was moved out of intensive care yesterday evening and the hospital was delighted with his progress.
The bus stop and surrounding property was sealed off for a few hours for forensic examination. Gardaí have appealed for anyone who witnessed the assault to contact Fitzgibbon Street Garda station.
Were Corks idiot brigade or 'casuals' giving shels ultras right hand salutes during the first half? I'd hate to see that creeping in if things weren't bad enough.
Glad to see the young lads condition is improving. Now could we stop referring to these clowns as Shels or Cork fans or indeed football or LOI fans, they are not. Why should the decent fans that support our teams week in week out be tarnished by assossiation with a few utter cretins ?
This was, after all, a public order issue that happened on a public road.
I don't understand how the second somebody does something out of order they're automatically not fans of the club. They clearly are.
I'm still in mourning.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Yea, but they were not in a LOI ground (or near it). why should the name of LOI clubs be tarnished by being linked with people fighting on a public street ? they most probobly "support" Man U / Liverpool etc as well but I dont see them described as Liverpool or man u fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
They were near enough a ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs
And fair enough they may support them teams but were they coming from a Man U or Liverpool match? No they were coming from Shels V Cork....Was clearly Cork fans fighting Shels fans.
Young lad in hospital was 100% a Cork fan dont know if he was involved in any of the fighting he may just have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.
its not that simple marino if you stage a game and invite people to that game you are in some way responsible for the outcome. now i know we will say that we cannot be responsible for what happens outside a ground but that is not strictly true. bottom line if we host an event and cannot ensure it does not lead to dangerous situations then there is two options
1. we cannot host the event
2. we pay the garda to ensure the safety issues
i
I dont know lads. I think that MarinoBohs is spot on here. These are bebo kids who are latching onto clubs if you ask me. Its hard to pin blame on Cork or Shels or whomever it might be in these cases. When you think of clubs with "an element", Cork and Shels arent two clubs that top that list. Rovers, Bohs, Dundalk and UCD are the ones that come to mind first. Before schooliganism, i never had any hassle in Cork or at a Shels game. Bohs has a schooligan group, most of whom dont even attend games. The real Bohs "element" is a different group. Ditto Rovers and Dundalk.
Long story short, I dont consider the incident on friday night as Cork fans fighting Shels fans - i simply consider it 2 groups of knackers, who were at a soccer game with the sole purpose of having a scrap afterwards, going at it.
They were indeed, but they all weren't Cork Casuals, there was one or two Shamrock Rovers lads in with them too which everyone found fairly odd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Army
He got the bus down in the "Cork City Casual" lads anyway, so I'd be fairly certain he wasn't involved with the trouble which kicked off at the top of Richmond Rd.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewhitearmy
Great to hear he's out of Intensive Care all the same, hopefully makes a full recovery.
No. Complete rubbish and why post it?
Hope all Shels fans who were in the vicinity will go to the Garda to help identify the large group of Shels fans that attacked a 16 year old boy so badly it was thought he had been driven over by a bus. Long time since I have been on here and never again after reading this at a sensitive time. Why do people assume a certain version of events? Wrong place wrong time.
If you are as sure about the "details" as you make out perhaps you should go to the Gardai, especially as they differ so dramtically with several eye witness accouts on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by rebs23
Nobody on this thread has been insensitive about the 16 year old involved - most have made a point of hoping he pulls through - so enough of the martyrdom nonsense please. Many of the posters here witnessed the event or at least some of it and are stating what they saw not assuming anything, unlike (apparently) yourself.
Folks, anyone that saw or heard anything last Friday night outside (or inside) Tolka Park, City and Shels fans alike can you please report everything you know to the Gardai at Fitzgibbon Street. This is vital to enable them to do anything about this.
From reports there were eight Cork lads (not City fans) throwing stuff at Shels fans when they were leaving the game and its understood that it was ordinary Shels fans who were leaving the ground, not part of any element. There must be a number of Shels fans who saw this and would be able to identify the Cork lads. Obviously it will be easy to identify the lad in hospital but there are another seven that are meant to have been with him.
Any information at all will be useful to the Gardai, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant. Please consider providing this info or urging others to provide it if you know they have information.
Division: Dublin Metropolitan Region, Fitzgibbon Street is in the DMR North Central Division and in Fitzgibbon Street District.
Fitzgibbon Street Garda Station,
Fitzgibbon Street,
Dublin 1.
Tel: +353 1 666 8400
Fax: +353 1 666 8440 (Public Office)
+353 1 666 8441 (District Office)
District HQ: Fitzgibbon Street
District HQ Tel: +353 1 666 8482
Divisional HQ : Store Street
Divisional HQ Tel: +353 1 666 8092
Is there any real will from the clubs to ban all these casuals and ultras from games? It's not as if we're talking about thousands of people here.
You at denial or acceptance? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild
Will have to get you a beer to help ya through the next time we're at Tolka.
Because fans of our club would have been in the ground for the whole game. If someone was outside of the ground not looking at the football on display (top of the table clash) and looking to get involved in anti-social behaviour to the point where there lives are threatened then they would not be described as football fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
Its not about will any more, its requirement, its event management, its about responsibility and adhere to guideline and procedure. If you cant do it then ..... and i don't need to finish this sentence .... but i will ..... You cant host LOI football games at your ground, end of ... fact .... end of .... what ever you need to hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Army
Come to think of it there is no sign of any statement from the powers that be, in the league.
I'm puzzled - what would eight Cork people be doing at a First Division match in Tolka Park on a Friday night if they weren't City fans and, now that, thankfully, the young lad is in recovery, why doesn't some bobby in Fitzgibbon Street stroll across to the Mater and ask him for the names and addresses of his seven mates?Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
How do you know that they haven't?Quote:
Originally Posted by avvenalaf
Fair Enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by de bowez
The perception is still out there though (hence my post) so that's why Bohs were totally, unfairly dragged into it imo.
That's not me having a go at Bohemains btw. :)
LOL!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Army
Could the dogs in the streets around Turners Cross not point the Gardai in the direction of the seven youngfellas that were with the lad without you putting appeals on the interweb??Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
FFS, I could probably identify them from pictures, never mind a Cork fan.
Mealy mouthed nonsense, these children whether you like it or not are associated with Cork City FC, the club has to bear some responsibility for their actions.Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
I'll grant you the banned lists and pictures, fair enough, it's something Shels don't bother doing (before whinging en masse about their "treatment"), but the club needs to go public on these cretins where possible, name them and shame them, feck it ring their parents. This "Ah shur we banned them, they're nothing to do with us" craic doesn't really cut it. CCFC pointing the Gardai in the direction of this fellas social group might be a good start.
To be honest I'd never go to the guards so I'm invoking the righteousness of the internet warrior here, but then I'd also never take on the responsibility of running a football club. :)
Your first paragraph is you giving your hands a good wash. In the second paragraph you then proceed to buck passing.Quote:
Its not about will any more, its requirement, its event management, its about responsibility and adhere to guideline and procedure. If you cant do it then ..... and i don't need to finish this sentence .... but i will ..... You cant host LOI football games at your ground, end of ... fact .... end of .... what ever you need to hear.
In an ideal world what you are saying is of course correct but the league is what it is and isn't changing anytime soon unfortunately, we don't all have shiny Turners Cross' around the corner to rent.
What you neglect to mention when talking up the virtues of event control is the unecessary extra expenditure that policing these cretins brings to the clubs who have to host them. Can you imagine if this lad had died?? Not only are our crowds against Shels and Cork reduced (I wouldn't bring my youngfella if I don't know the craic so wouldn't expect anyone else to) but our security costs sky rocket, we go from no guards to at least a half dozen guards, a dozen stewards to forty stewards. All this because Shels and Cork City have failed to act decisively when dealing with their baby hooligans. Is this fair?? Is this Limericks fault?? Is it Wexfords?? Is it the FAIs??
The chickens very nearly came home to roost last Friday night. The problem I have is that all clubs would end up unfairly tarnished by the nonsense.
In summary, to somehow imply that the behaviour of travelling supporters should be the sole responsibility of the club hosting them is absolute nonsense imo.
If you want a league with event control, planning and grounds like you envisage above then I suggest Cork pull out of the league ask Rovers to join them and ye can play each 30 times a season with gangs of feral children travelling up and down the motorway to get their heads kicked in and it being absolutely nobodies fault.
EDIT: I'M LEAVING THIS LAST SPEEL UP FOR REPLIES INCASE I DIDN'T (it took me like three minutes to write!) BUT JUST READING BACK OVER YOUR POST I REALISE I COULD HAVE TOTALLY MISINTERPRETED THAT BIT I QUOTED. *palmsface*
1. FAI in being innefective shocker.Quote:
Come to think of it there is no sign of any statement from the powers that be, in the league
2. In fairness to them (:eek:) it hasn't actually came out that this is football related yet (praise Allah!!) so maybe the FAI are trying to let the smoke clear?? No need to give the Herald any more excuse for a 24 page pullout!!
There were thousands of Cork people visiting and living Dublin the same night, some of them near the ground. Some of them in pubs, B&Bs, hotels around the ground, and alot of them probably never knew there was a game on. But most of them were not involved in anti social behaviour. Those guys weren't even in the ground, looking to cause trouble and got what they came for.Quote:
Originally Posted by avvenalaf
All City fans would have been there in the ground looking at the football, not ouside the ground looking for trouble.
They probably have but as always its up to people there to provide the information to assist them. Everyone knows that Gardai are under resourced now and if anyone with half an idea about cleaning up the name of our league then we know giving them info to be able to cut through all the crap and deal with this situation is the best course of action.Quote:
and, now that, thankfully, the young lad is in recovery, why doesn't some bobby in Fitzgibbon Street stroll across to the Mater and ask him for the names and addresses of his seven mates?
Quote:
Originally Posted by A face
So now your saying it was random people from Cork taht are euither living in our were visiting Dublin at the time......Oh dear.
The gang of lads were in the ground they left at half time and were told while leaving they would not be allowed back in so in teh 1st half they were CCFC fans but as soon as they left at half time they weren't is it?
You accept we've banned them and informed other clubs they are banned and yet still try to somehow blame the club?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Go public? How exactly? You think we can start posting pictures/names of underage kids online or something? There's a million things wrong with that.
The Gardai down here are well aware of the crowd, they have been pointed out many times and spoken to by the Gardai.
Call their parents? Where exactly do we get their parents numbers? What if we do and then the parents tell us to go feck ourselves. That's a job for the Gardai, not the club.
I will always advocate zero tolerance but similarly there is always a limit to what clubs can do. Once they ban those involved and make sure other clubs are aware of it, and the gardai are aware of possible trouble (goes through the event controller) then what more can they do.
What I don't understand is the complete lack of Gardai. I know in Turner's cross there is a minimum amount of Gardai, per game depending on opposition which are required in order for the event to go ahead. The club pays for these Gardai inside the ground but have litte/no control over how many are deemed necessary. This is decided by the Gardai.
Then there is always extra Gardai outside the ground keeping an eye on the toerags. If anything does look like starting it is stopped fairly quickly.
Where were these gardai in Tolka? Why the complete lack of a presence. Surely they are well aware that Shels, and us, have an element.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
I cant respond in full, i dont have the time to read the posts as i need to work but i will return and reply later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluewhitearmy
But for the record, what i am trying to do is highlight the differences between the eight lads from Cork who travelled with Cork support and for all intents and purposes were City fans. Personally I don't regard them as City / LOI fans because of the damage they have done and hope they are dealt with by the Gardai and that they throw the book at them. I hope its dealt with after the queens visit so it wont be brushed off and made light off.
There is a good chance here imo to press charges and make them answerable and hope to god that this happens.
Again, i will respond later on when i get a chance.
If he was in ICU, then stepped down to a HDU ward, for medical reasons Gardai probably wouldn't be allowed to interview him.Quote:
Originally Posted by avvenalaf
Whether you like it or not, it's still partially the clubs fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
Was there a CCFC committee member on the away turnstile helping Shels identify and turn troublemakers away?? If not, why not??
I was engaging in hyperbole for the sake of an internet argument it happens.Quote:
Go public? How exactly? You think we can start posting pictures/names of underage kids online or something? There's a million things wrong with that.
The Gardai down here are well aware of the crowd, they have been pointed out many times and spoken to by the Gardai.
Call their parents? Where exactly do we get their parents numbers? What if we do and then the parents tell us to go feck ourselves. That's a job for the Gardai, not the club.
Since Friday have CCFC went to the Gardai with information about this child and his "firm"??
CCFC haven't gone above and beyond really though have they?? Have the guards been contacted since Friday?? Was there a member of your committee at the turnstile in Tolka Park on Friday to identify troublemakers?? Did any one of your committee ring the gardai when they were causing trouble in the first half?? (I know technically not their responsibility but still twould be nice) Have these fellas details been circulated by the club around travel companies in Cork to prevent them hiring transport to away games?? (maybe on tricky legal ground there, has the club discussed the possibility with the Gardai??)Quote:
I will always advocate zero tolerance but similarly there is always a limit to what clubs can do. Once they ban those involved and make sure other clubs are aware of it, and the gardai are aware of possible trouble (goes through the event controller) then what more can they do.
Point ultimately being the more you do the less this stink can be associated with your club, CCFC do lots but have they done everything in their power??
Dublin on Friday night, maybe the Gardai were busy with other issues besides a dozen teenage warriors. Did anyone ring the guards when they saw these youngfellas acting the maggot?? Did anyone from the vast majority fantastic, travelling, Cork City tell these youngfellas to cop the funk on. It's happened loads of times at Limerick games (happened me a couple of times!!) if someone steps out of line the group sorts them out.Quote:
What I don't understand is the complete lack of Gardai. I know in Turner's cross there is a minimum amount of Gardai, per game depending on opposition which are required in order for the event to go ahead. The club pays for these Gardai inside the ground but have litte/no control over how many are deemed necessary. This is decided by the Gardai.
Then there is always extra Gardai outside the ground keeping an eye on the toerags. If anything does look like starting it is stopped fairly quickly.
Where were these gardai in Tolka? Why the complete lack of a presence. Surely they are well aware that Shels, and us, have an element
Could ultimately be down to money too of course, guards cost serious amounts and Conan Byrne has to be paid.
It irks me a little that you'll always have at least a dozen of Templemores finest present in or around when we visit Tolka but it just shows you superintendents read the Sunday World too I suppose.