Eligibility Rules, Okay

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

I disagree with Kee showing maturity on the topic as this part of his comment, "“Some from nationalist backgrounds will feel an affiliation with the Republic" demonstrates that he doesn't get it either.

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I feel his words demonstrate a greater degree of maturity regarding the situation in contrast to the ridiculous sensationalism of some others. Perhaps he doesn't quite understand the rules, but I take it from his words that he understands that the player has every right to play for the FAI. What is it from the comment which you have quoted that tells you he doesn't quite 'get it'?

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I've asked elsewhere what would have suddenly prompted two articles and a poll in the paper on the same day, but no one seems to know. Was there a squad announcement or something?

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Perhaps the editor asked these people to pursue this story? Slow news day?

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Originally Posted by Predator

I feel his words demonstrate a greater degree of maturity regarding the situation in contrast to the ridiculous sensationalism of some others. Perhaps he doesn't quite understand the rules, but I take it from his words that he understands that the player has every right to play for the FAI. What is it from the comment which you have quoted that tells you he doesn't quite 'get it'?

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He has brought peoples politcal beliefs into the mix by using the term natiionalist. Nor has it anything to do with feeling an affiliation. It is not about him knowing the rules, more about learning and understand why people want to play for their country. When bothers to do so, then he may be showing maturity.

In my opinion, it seems like Kee obviously respects the kid's decision and he isn't, as far as I can tell, looking to prohibit players from playing the FAI (although of course it is in the interests of his job to encourage players to stay with the IFA). He doesn't show ignorance of the rules by saying stuff like "If ye're born in Norn Iron, ye play for Norn Iron", or rambling on about having parents or grandparents born in the territory of the relevant association. He also isn't claiming that the FAI is on a crusade to make the IFA team Protestant, like Trevor Ringland. Those things show me a relative degree of maturity compared to the rest of the commentary. If you don't see that, no problem.

Have you had any luck in finding out why these stories have been printed? It really is out of the blue. Perhaps the new IFA president hoping to garner more support for another appeal to FIFA to change the rules or something?

Why do people want to play for their country, by the way?

I'd agree that what was quoted from Kee was decent enough. Bear in mind though, that he's the coach of a 'mixed' team and he would be shooting himself in the foot if he polarised opinion within his squad, with anything other than mature diplomacy. But he appears to understand his role.
The booby prize goes to politicians like sports minister McCausland, who deliberately misrepresent facts to foment divisive social ignorance.

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Originally Posted by geysir

The booby prize goes to politicians like sports minister McCausland, who deliberately misrepresent facts to foment divisive social ignorance.

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A Northern Ireland politician deliberately misrepresenting facts to forment divisive social ignorance???......................Never.

Oops, that should've been................Never! Never! Never!

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

He has brought peoples politcal beliefs into the mix by using the term natiionalist. Nor has it anything to do with feeling an affiliation. It is not about him knowing the rules, more about learning and understand why people want to play for their country. When bothers to do so, then he may be showing maturity

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Think you're a bit harsh, there Mr P. Sounds to me as if he understands why people want to play well enough, he's merely adding the context of who they want to play for.

Agreed he could have avoided the term nationalist, but it's hardly "immature" given the wider issue.

More cheerfully, our U-18 schools side managed a notable win over England this weekend, 2-0 at Telford United. The players gave the travelling support of three a lap of honor at the end :)

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Originally Posted by Predator

Why do people want to play for their country, by the way?

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You could ask Biggles McCartney or Mad Stevie Ireland...

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Originally Posted by Gather round

More cheerfully, our U-18 schools side managed a notable win over England this weekend, 2-0 at Telford United.

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That indeed is cheerful news.

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Originally Posted by Predator

In my opinion, it seems like Kee obviously respects the kid's decision and he isn't, as far as I can tell, looking to prohibit players from playing the FAI (although of course it is in the interests of his job to encourage players to stay with the IFA). He doesn't show ignorance of the rules by saying stuff like "If ye're born in Norn Iron, ye play for Norn Iron", or rambling on about having parents or grandparents born in the territory of the relevant association. He also isn't claiming that the FAI is on a crusade to make the IFA team Protestant, like Trevor Ringland. Those things show me a relative degree of maturity compared to the rest of the commentary. If you don't see that, no problem.

Have you had any luck in finding out why these stories have been printed? It really is out of the blue. Perhaps the new IFA president hoping to garner more support for another appeal to FIFA to change the rules or something?

Why do people want to play for their country, by the way?

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I'll conceed a degree of maturity bring shown by comparison to others, but I am still of the opinion that his words still show that he has a way to go in his understanding. As for why the story was run, no, still no answers.

I do agree that Kee's words are somewhat of a progression from the line we hear from some in the IFA and the likes of Trevor Ringland, Stuart McKinley or Nelson McCausland, but I do see Mr_Parker's point. It's not about Kee and those in the IFA recognising that a player might "feel" a mere "affiliation with the Republic"; it's about recognising that such a player is as Irish as an Irish national born south of the border. Once we can get over that particular hurdle, the debate can cease. The likelihood of that seems slim, however.

I'd imagine the debate raised its head again due to Paul George's decision to declare for us becoming public the other day, no? A bit ridiculous to continue crying foul, but sure anything to latch onto in order to brew up a storm...

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

I'd imagine the debate raised its head again due to Paul George's decision to declare for us becoming public the other day, no? A bit ridiculous to continue crying foul, but sure anything to latch onto in order to brew up a storm...

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Paul's decision to represent Ireland has been public knowledge for several months and i recall the Irish Star covering the story back in October last year.

Kee intimated that it was a family decision, which could be interpreted that the player would have continued to play for NI if his family had not been interfering.
But probably it was more that the kid talked it over with his family before deciding, which sounds 'normal' to me.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

He has brought peoples political beliefs into the mix by using the term nationalist. Nor has it anything to do with feeling an affiliation. It is not about him knowing the rules, more about learning and understand why people want to play for their country.

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Surely the reason anyone wants to play for a country is partially because of a 'political belief', even subliminally. And is certainly about an 'affiliation'.
Ask all those Irish citzens who've played for their international team, born in England or elsewhere.

Not to mention, for numerous other national sides and the like....

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Surely the reason anyone wants to play for a country is partially because of a 'political belief', even subliminally. And is certainly about an 'affiliation'.
Ask all those Irish citzens who've played for their international team, born in England or elsewhere.

Not to mention, for numerous other national sides and the like....

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I fully understand that, but it was not what I was getting at. The statement he makes contradicts those points you make and that to extent was my point.

what about another senario. are republic players able to play for the north? or do they need a british passport? i was born in the usa to an irish father i have an irish passport so i can play for eire or the usa but can i opt for northern ireland too? i assume there are rules about roi players who want to play for the north

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Originally Posted by sean r

what about another senario. are republic players able to play for the north? or do they need a british passport? i was born in the usa to an irish father i have an irish passport so i can play for eire or the usa but can i opt for northern ireland too? i assume there are rules about roi players who want to play for the north

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All players from NI are eligible to play for RoI (unless and untilthey play for NI in a competitive senior game).

Some but not all from RoI are eligible to play for NI, they can qualify through ancestry or residence as well as nationality/ citizenship.

Are you any good Sean? :)

You would need your father or his parents to be born inside the 6 counties in order to eligible for NI. Nationality is the criteria for International teams. You would need to be a British national to play for NI. Being born (or having a parent/grandparent born) in the 26 counties, does not by itself qualify you for British nationality.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

All players from NI are eligible to play for RoI (unless and until they play for NI in a competitive senior game).

Some but not all from RoI are eligible to play for NI, they can qualify through ancestry or residence as well as nationality/ citizenship.

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Really?? Are you sure?? Would never have known.....
;)

capital Y A W N

well i am decent i am eligible for a british passport because my granny was born in eire before the rebellion so she is british. so i am in the maik taylor mold i can play for any of the 4 home countries because i am eligible for a british passport and not being born in britian. matthew letissier was the same way he could of played for northern ireland since he was born jersey. maik taylor was born in germany but could play for n.i becase he was a british citizen born abroad, so he chose northern ireland. so could grame lesaux could of played for n.i so the rules are tricky with british citizenship it seems anyone born out side of britian can play for the home countries if there british citizens so i dont know what northern ireland problem is they could of had owen hargraves, le tiss,lesaux dorigo ect they just chose not to cap them or even approach them

From Trevor Ringland's piece:

"Extreme disappointment would be my initial reaction to this latest development. It’s like an Ulster player deciding to switch to Munster or a Down player deciding to turn out for Tyrone"

Ringland's ignorance is clear from this statement. In fact, I'd almost go as far as to say that the statement is 'incredibly short-sighted' and shows 'a total lack of understanding' of the reasons why players would rather play for the FAI. The only truth in the statement is that it is an act of playing for what, only to the likes of Ringland, is a rival team.

But an Ulster player DID just decide to switch to Munster.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

But an Ulster player DID just decide to switch to Munster.

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ahhh........poor Trev.

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Originally Posted by sean r

i can play for any of the 4 home countries because i am eligible for a british passport and not being born in britian

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In addition to being a British Citizen, players need to comply with Article 16 of the FIFA Stautes in order to play for one of the "home" Associations.

Paul George named in the Ireland u17 squad for Elite qualifiers later this month. Welcome aboard Paul.

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...r-17&Itemid=17

I hear John Ringo is also about to declare.

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Originally Posted by sean r

well i am decent i am eligible for a british passport because my granny was born in eire before the rebellion so she is british. so i am in the maik taylor mold i can play for any of the 4 home countries because i am eligible for a british passport and not being born in britian. matthew letissier was the same way he could of played for northern ireland since he was born jersey. maik taylor was born in germany but could play for n.i becase he was a british citizen born abroad, so he chose northern ireland. so could grame lesaux could of played for n.i so the rules are tricky with british citizenship it seems anyone born out side of britian can play for the home countries if there british citizens so i dont know what northern ireland problem is they could of had owen hargraves, le tiss,lesaux dorigo ect they just chose not to cap them or even approach them

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Well your grammar and punctuation is a lot better than most of our players - so I'd certainly have you in the team.

I don't think Sean has any hypothetical choice of Irish teams. Unless he has British nationality, he cannot play for NI.
I'd say he'd have a job getting a UK passport, unless his grandfather was a UK passport holder.

thanks paddy i do have a education and being born in usa i do have a grasp of our native tounge and know Amhrán na bhFiann in irish too! more than can be said about half the national team. we should be picking players what WANT to play for eire not players where we were the 2nd choice. i remember when marlon king was linked with us. what if he was on the team now!! i said on another thread we are really the england "B" team now anyway

Which great sage of foot.ie was it who said "appropriate capitalisation is all that separates I'm helping my Uncle Jack off a horse from i'm helping my uncle jack off a horse" ?

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Originally Posted by sean r

i remember when marlon king was linked with us. what if he was on the team now!!

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We'd have to keep him well away from Manuela for a start.

A poster on OWC suggested that if the IFA supported Grant Wahl in his campaign to be FIFA President, that they may have a chance of getting the rules changed to suit them. Alas, today he announced that he would no longer be running (from his twitter):
"If only the world's fans could vote. But they don't, so today I'm bowing out of the FIFA president race. Thanks for your support!"

Here's his piece on the affair: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...acy/index.html

I truly wish the Belfast Telegraph's sports writers would stop peddling such misinformation. I'm almost embarrassed for them.
Should Northern Ireland born players be free to opt for the Republic?

"The world governing body gave the FAI the green light to cherry pick players born in Northern Ireland, despite Fifa’s own statutes dictating that either a player himself, one of his parents or a grandparent must be born on the ‘territory of the relevant association’ in order to play for that country."

The only thing I find semi-annoying about that is this notion of carte blanche "cherry picking". It gives the impression that the FAI can select who they like and somehow force them to play for Ireland when any rational-thinking person would understand and acknowledge that the decision of a dual national as to who to represent if considered good enough by whichever association is concerned quite naturally lies entirely with the player himself. If he's not keen on representing the FAI, then there'll obviously be no "cherry picking".

The rest of it, by now, I just find kind of unfathomable, amusing and cringeworthy. It's as if the writers are living within a vacuum. There's a lot of ill-informed nonsense spouted in the comments sections below the pieces they churn out too, from both sides of the debate - although, in fairness, those commenting there aren't being paid to regurgitate balderdash - but I'm pretty sure the error of the writers' ways has been highlighted there at least, even if nobody has bothered to e-mail them to correct their misunderstanding every single time they fail to actually bother doing the most basic bit of research you'd expect of them as to the wording of the FIFA statutes before having a moan about them.

Then again, what was it Joseph Goebbels said about repeating a lie often enough?...

You've got to credit the sheer persistence of those sports writers on the Belfast Telegraph, to maintain that level of obstinacy.
Thicker than 2 short planks, though.
Where do you start with someone who thinks this is the question?
BT Poll - Should footballers born in Northern Ireland be free to play for the Republic?

The BT get it wrong time and time again. I reckon they do it on purpose.

Playing 'Devil's Advocate' is their new (or not so new) 'Modus Operandi??

Sure on the comments section on one of their many debates on this issue last year, one persistent poster (unless they too also were playing DA) was suggesting The BT were not adhering to their expected agenda/stance, which is another oddity. Given the medium this person was protesting through.

Interesting to read the thoughts of 'AugherStar' over on OWC. Hard to know whether those who expound these views are serious or not.

"Can you not see the irony in all this ,re the funeral of Ronan Kerr and the RoI policy of dividing our population?This country is struggling to put our former divisions to bed and your bunch of parasites are stoking up ill feeling over somthing as irrelevant (in the grand scheme of things) as football.Constable Kerr and his colleagues are able to satisfy their "irishness" whilst working within NI ,for the UK government,yet little sectarian toe rags are allowed to declare for the Republic ,"coz that's who caffilicks play for ".All the while being cajoled and influenced by scum like Delayney and Brady .
Sure who cares if we get a peaceful,mature society (which may ultimately lead to some sort of "United Ireland")as long as the Republic pick up an odd extra, decent player to mix in with the rest of the English and Scots that they have gathered up to make themselves think they are an important footballing nation."

The FAI are not just scheming sectarian childcatchers, but they're also to blame for bombs and conflict. It would be a task to make this up, I'm sure.

Good thing there's no English players on the Northern Ireland team, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Good thing there's no English players on the Northern Ireland team, isn't it?

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augherstar must have missed the announcement of the north's u19 squad yesterday, especially their midfield

Midfielders
David Morgan – Born ni
Matthew Ball – Born Chelmsford
Ryan Brobbel – Born Middlesbrough
James Knowles – Born ni
Jack Warburton – Born London
Ben McKenna – Born Carlisle

As for the rest of it, a sectarian rant - best ignored.