By all accounts Folan is injured anyway.
By all accounts Folan is injured anyway.
It appears that the lovely Manuela is finding it hard to get a word in edgeways at these press conferences.
There was some interpretation of Trap's english when discussing McCarthy, that he would change the formation to a 4411/4231 with McCarthy in front of the 2 CM.
people are saying oh look loads of new faces, the squad is 27, will he drop green like he should? we know what he can do, he is limited, so good to have as cover but needed for experimentation when we know how limited he is. Why are people also saying that the likes of wilson, foley etc etc are in, these lads were already in the squad? so what? If he starts them all and gives them a good 70 mins then yer point is valid but otherwise is the same old stuff, just rehashed, packaged with a nice wrapping and bow.
i like the sound of that, interesting to see will it actually happen though.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
We have a few players for experimenting with positions eg. full back, but only the inclusion of McCarthy would cause an experimenting with a real change in the formation.
Even if McCarthy was available, Trap would still deploy 2 at CM. Both Green and Whelan will start against Norway and maybe Hunt would give more bite to countering the 5 man midfield that Norway deploy. Trap patiently looks to develop and improve players into their roles, he will also look to Green improving into his role.
Carew is out, so Norway are likely to go with their other classy enough frontman, with plenty of support down the flanks.
Wilson was in one squad and he withdrew. There are plenty of untried players in the squad. People were screaming for Coleman and he's in. Unfortunately the "new faces" we were most excited about seeing are unavailable. I stand by my point 100%, and it's not a pro- or anti-Trap comment, just a simple observation. In my opinion the squad is a decent mix of experienced and tested, and players with potential who desereve a look. Like you though I'll be disappointed if a few of the latter don't get a good chance to impress, but the squad selection is 90% right I reckon..Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
The team could do with some fresh faces, but the squad's OK.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-2409870.html
Quote:
WHILE Ireland continue to search for eligible players across the UK and beyond, Giovanni Trapattoni has warned that he will not be held to ransom by agents in order to accelerate a decision.
The 71-year-old said he was speaking generally rather than referring to a specific case study when addressing the topic as he named his squad for the upcoming friendly with Norway.
Aston Villa's Ciaran Clark misses out as the FAI wait for confirmation from FIFA that the 21-year-old is free to play for the country where his parents grew up. Trapattoni is delighted to welcome the defender into his plans, after Clark stressed a willingness to prove his worth.
However, Trapattoni is troubled by agents seeking guarantees that their client will be in the first XI, but denied that Spurs' Jamie O'Hara was doing so, and quashed reports that a recent approach has been made to Mark Noble -- the West Ham midfielder who has captained the England U-21 side.
Therefore, it is unclear if the Irish boss was referencing a particular example in the midst of a typically vague answer on the process of recruitment.
"People say, 'we have a question, we have a question'," he said, "Not like (Shane) Duffy. He said, OK immediately, he will come and play for us. Clark the same, he say OK immediately."
"I cannot say to them what the situation is. They cannot expect to come in and just go on pitch. I put on pitch what I think is better. If the agent says, 'He's OK, he deserves to play', then show me.
"There has been no contact with Noble. And with Maguire (Barry Maguire, who plays with Utrecht in Holland). We have to wait for FIFA to decide."
So, as those issues ramble on, the squad for Norway provides few surprises. Stoke's Jonathan Walters is called up for the first time, and is one of three uncapped individuals in the 27-man selection. Seamus Coleman and Marc Wilson, late call-ups to the squad for last month's Euro 2012 qualifiers with Russia and Slovakia, are the others.
Trapattoni indicated that Coleman will win a first cap on the night and drew a comparison with Gareth Bale, just like Everton boss David Moyes had done earlier in the day as he pointed out how the natural full-back has thrived in a wide role. Still, the Irish boss would like to try out Coleman in his preferred right-full position. "I wish to try him as a defender," he said. "He can go forward. I do not forbid my players from going across the halfway line. You can ask them. I say: 'Go forward and make a cross'. But if the No 2 goes forward to make a cross then, obviously, I look for the midfielder to stay."
Damien Duff, Stephen Hunt and Caleb Folan return from injuries, and Keith Treacy is in line for a second cap, despite confusion surrounding his withdrawal from the last squad. Greg Cunningham should figure, with Trapattoni delighted to see the Galway lad gaining first-team experience at Leicester after recommending him to Sven-Goran Eriksson.
Yet he will field a strong team from the outset against the Norway, conscious that Shay Given and Robbie Keane need game-time considering their dire situations at club level.
James McCarthy misses out through injury, but was discussed in detail. Trapattoni tripped over his words when asked if he was concerned that the 19-year-old might switch back to his native Scotland as he has yet to win a competitive cap, although Irish fans shouldn't be worried.
The Wigan midfielder has no intention of changing his mind, and family members are aggrieved that the issue continues to crop up considering the player endured so much grief to declare for Ireland in the first place. Craig Levein's assertion that the door remains open matters little when the Glaswegian has already decided not to walk through it.
wilson was in the last squad....and on the bench against slovakia.
coleman was also called into the last squad as back up. the squad is what we expected really, and its not at all different from the last squad except the additions of walters, duff and hunt....2 who were injured.
But overall, the point is still the same these guys have to feature over the more senior players, and those who shouldn't be there....kilbane and green.
I'm not sure I buy Trap's denial. O'Hara likes to name himself in first XI's. Usually England's.Quote:
However, Trapattoni is troubled by agents seeking guarantees that their client will be in the first XI, but denied that Spurs' Jamie O'Hara was doing so, and quashed reports that a recent approach has been made to Mark Noble -- the West Ham midfielder who has captained the England U-21 side
Coleman was called in at the expense of the injured Kelly but has been retained despite the latter's return. You'd have to assume he did enough to impress Trap over the last international break.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
CD, this squad is 27 players. there was 20 left by the last wasnt there? thats 7 extra.
It will be interesting to see who are the 5 that get chopped.
Does that mean you accept Charlie's post about Coleman making the squad or are you trying to make another point?
Natural attrition of injury will reduce the squad to at least 23.
My team V Norway is:
Westwood
Coleman Dunne O'Shea Cunningham
McGeady Wilson Whelan Duff
Stokes Doyle
Trap's team will be:
Given
O'Shea Dunne St Ledger Kilbane
McGeady Whelan Green Duff
Keane Doyle
Stokes isn't in the squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy_c12000
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFox
He is in my squad
If he starts with the team below then I'll be extremely annoyed. The starting 11 needs shaking up.
Given
O'Shea Dunne St Ledger Kilbane
McGeady Whelan Green Duff
Keane Doyle
If you're saying Kilbane shouldn't be in the squad then you're way off.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
As a general point - as with previous squads, the calls are all marginal at best. Personally I'd like to see Stokes in, others Ward, maybe Maguire or whoever, but no one who's been omitted has made a cast-iron case for inclusion. The only one would be the unfortunately crocked McCarthy and it seems obvious by now he's very much in the manager's plans.
We do have the opportunity to see new faces - possible (actually, probable) debuts for Coleman, Wilson and Walters; opportunities for the likes of Foley, Kelly and Cunningham to make a claim; the chance for Fahey, Long and McGeady to kick on for encouraging performances in Zilina; the welcome return of Duff and Hunt.
Whether or not some of these guys are 'brand new' isn't the point. There's plenty to interest any Irish fan on how many of these guys perform. Just looking at the squad there's appears an abundance of options compared to even a month ago.
I had a look at the Derby v Portsmouth game (alternative was the rugby) and Green was the motm, he had an excellent game.
Yeah, I've watched him twice for Derby this season and been impressed both times, but the international step up does seem a bridge too far for him, for me he hasnt even showed glimpses of what would be required to adapt at the level, never mind impress. Did he play a more advanced role for Derby? just behind a tall frontman?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I know we cant allow every newcomer a 20 or 30 caps settling in period to become adjusted to International standard football. However.....Both Duff and McGeady have needed that amout of time to even start to show some level of consistency at this level.
Whats Green got at this stage, 6 or 7 caps? (perhaps 2 or 3 competitive). I think he has done ok, a few decent games and a few poor ones but Id be inclined to give him a little longer unless of course he simply cannot retain his place because we have other untested players who are simply going to walk in to the side and look comfortable against Macedonia home and away next year.
I thought Ward looked ropey on MOTD. One very careless gift of possession to MU neraly resulted in a goal.
Someone said that Green is a paradox in the Irish team. He gives the ball away more than anyone but a lot of our best attacks in Slovakia came when he won the ball high up the pitch. When he went off we created less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
Yeah, he plays a much more advanced midfield role for Derby, I see he has the joint highest nr of assists in that league with 6 assists.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Judging from some of the comments by Trap, he is probably gonna start with the majority of the regulars and then make wholesale changes aalong the way. I have to say I think that is pretty pointless now, unless he sees the celtic cup, Uruguay and the american games as enough of an opportunity to vet the pretenders then, as he only has Macedonia at home before the final run-in from June.
Killer was decent in Slovakia, but the connection between himself and Aiden mcGeady doesn't seem to be there, they aren't on the same wavelength, and I would like to see other players being tried in the position, regardless of if it's a newbee like Cunningham or Ward, or an established player such as Stephen Kelly.
Norway have had a decent start to their group, but they aren't going to be showing anything that we haven't seen before, and while it will be a decent test, they're not going to rip any debutants a new one, so it really is a good time to experiment. Wilson is worth a go in the middle of the pitch and I would definitely like to see Kevin Foley start at right back.
I absolutely detest the notion of giving someone a cap, in order for them to play some football. That is what their clubs are for. In the case of Shay, Westwood deserves a chance. Otherwise when is he gonna get the experience he needs if Shay is injured etc.
I'd like to see this (based on the squad he's picked):
--------------------------Westwood-------------------------
Foley ----------- O'Shea----------------Dunne-------Cunningham/Kelly
--------------Fahey & Wilson or Whelan & Gibson-----------------
Coleman-------------------McGeady----------------------Treacy
----------------------------Doyle----------------------------
with the likes of Hunt, Cunningham, O'Dea, and Walters getting some time in the second half.
I fear what we'll see is:
-------------------Given--------------
O'Shea-------Dunne Ledger------- Killer
Fahey--------Green Gibson------- Duff
------------ Doyle Keane -----------
with cameo's for treacy, folan, coleman, walters and cunningham. Westwood will probably get a half.
he should have closed down park for the second clearly he was in the wrong. i think trap has it right on this one. and so will mccarthy soon...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I have to be honest, I think the clamour for him is more to do with a dearth of options for us, rather than spectacular performances by Stephen. I don't think he's particularily good at full back, particularily defensively, and I'd prefer Kelly there myself, purely for his defensive abilities. I think Steo has been tainted by the early mistake against Georgia last year, unfairly in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
It would be wrong to not have a look at Stephen Ward though. After all he's a regular (for a long time too) in a team in the PL for a 2nd year. Actually it would be foolish not to look at him.
The place is up for grabs though. Killer is on shaky ground, we just need someone to be aggresive enough to take the spot.
Height in the team is a factor that I've harped on about for at least 5 years now, and it's a primary reason Killer is there, as we've seen recently we're a small enough team; even if we have good springers, it's one thing getting in front of a big defending player, a different thing in front of a big attacking defender. Killer is brilliant at this aspect of the game in particular, and it's the main reason behind his prolonged stay of execution
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
That is the truth of it. We retained the ball far better when he went off, but we weren't as forthright when either. What this confirms to me is that he's a worse off version of Keith Andrews. Also Glenn Whelans performances have deteriorated alongside him, to the extent that he is on dodgy ground too, although consistent injury and poor tactics may be as much of a cause for concern with Glenn as anything else.
If we're being honest, McCarthy should be establishing himself as the man of our midfield, and leaving Whelan, Andrews and Wilson to battle it out for the other spot, with Green a way behind, particularily if Conor Clifford can continue to progress over the course of the campaign at club level/
feature, as in game time.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
well going on previous squads probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I agree with his point, but coleman was already selected in a possible 23 or 24, if you consider squad + cover. IM assuming though he will be kept in the actual 22 this time.
Actually, the statistics don't support the opinion that Green gives the ball away more than anyone.
In each of the games, he had his dodgy moments, adjusted and improved, I'd say in all probability he has a 75%/80% success rate with his passes.
His weakness is his first touch.
Without Green on the pitch against Slovakia we were weaker - more vulnerable through CM. It is astonishing that this has not been observed/admitted.
The first player to replace at CM is Whelan, he is showing all the symptoms of a player whose game has deteriorated because of a lack of first team football.
Do you have the stats geysir? Id tend to agree with your post, was just looking to see where it is substantiated though.
[QUOTE=geysir;1422038]To be fair, and I'm really not trying to start an argument, but you might as well put "FACT!" beside this point, because it's an opinion more than anything else really? Unless of course you present them, and I'll accept that 100%Quote:
Actually, the statistics don't support the opinion that Green gives the ball away more than anyone.
I would debate that strongly, but without any evidence to back it up. That said I did rewatch the Russia game (3times) and Slovakia game, specifially to look at McGeady's performance, and in the case of the Russia game, broke down how many times he used the ball, how many times he lost it, and how well he actually played, but it cut no ice on this forum, despite being backed up by evidence.Quote:
In each of the games, he had his dodgy moments, adjusted and improved, I'd say in all probability he has a 75%/80% success rate with his passes.
Again to be fair, that's probably the worst weakness for a central midfielder to have! At least Whelan's weakness is his lack of pace.Quote:
His weakness is his first touch.
We weren't as combative I would describe as being more accurate, something both myself and Stuttgart acknowledged openly and positively. I think that had more to do with certain posters wanting certain players to be doing well i.e Gibson>Green.Quote:
Without Green on the pitch against Slovakia we were weaker - more vulnerable through CM. It is astonishing that this has not been observed/admitted.
I disagree, and would acknowledge that it might be biased for having a fondness for Whelan, but I'd have Green out of the squad completely, whereas I'd be happy for Whelan to be a squad member.Quote:
The first player to replace at CM is Whelan, he is showing all the symptoms of a player whose game has deteriorated because of a lack of first team football.
Id go along with that, but its not to much a weakness as a total lack of one on several occasions, very frustrating to see our player at that level so exposed on that front. I was cringing each time I saw it coming his way against Russia after his first few times on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I did think in slovakia, he was doing well and we lost the ball in the middle for longer periods of time when he went off.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I also thought he lost the ball quite a lot, but he won it originally to lose it again, which at least means we had the ball more often than normal, and for longer.
I did also say this at the time and agreed with you geysir, if that makes the "observed/admitted" any more positive.
Fair nuff, wasn't as clear from original post.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Agree with this. It's not simply a question of form - Whelan has proven himself to be an asset at international level even if he isn't playing well. Green has yet to prove anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
That's my thinking of it exactly. Whelan has shown himself to be competent alongside a good midfielder, Stephen Reid, quite good alongside a decent midfielder, Keith Andrews. So it's not like he's been shocking for a long time. What he does isn't spectacular, he offers an outlet for the short ball for the full back, and an out ball for the wingers, when they're tight, and regularily does that well. We know he can hit a ball. So he would always get my vote over Paul green. I don't bear any ill-will against Green, I just don't think he's good enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Actually, I'd say that's exactly what he doesn't do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Ah but he does CD, it's not his fault if they choose to lump it up instead of utilising him :-)
I'd say it's a team effort to be honest. John O'Shea passes the ball inside all the time in the Premier League, but then again he has Scholes or Fletcher screaming at him every time he gets the ball. Showing yourself isn't really enough at this level.
Apparently Keane is to go for a scan for an injury picked up in training at Spurs. Any word on when Folan is expected to be fit? If both were to withdraw, would he call Stokes or Sheridan up? Anyone any idea on how Sheridan has been doing lately?