So can we clarify when someone can fall foul of the rule quoted earlier?
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So can we clarify when someone can fall foul of the rule quoted earlier?
Quote:
By the time he had recovered from the injury he was no longer required to fulfil his international duties and so he was eligible to play for Derry City.
It must be discretionary.
They (the FAI) can decide later whether a player is/was required or not.
Just as a general mod point - don't dismiss people's posts by groundlessly calling the posters pathetic. That's just trolling. If you have a valid point, you should be able to make it without resorting to personal abuse.
I'm guessing that the squad left on Sunday and it was six days later before he played in the Shels game.
If he recovered on the Tues I doubt they would have flew him over anyway but AFAIK he had to have a late fitness test before the game which was played on the Sat.If the game had of been on the Friday it may have been a whole lot different as that fell with-in the five day rule when he pulled out.
Looks like nothing to see here.
The five-day rule is not from the day he pulls out, but from the date of the international game a player is selected for. That game was on the 7th, yet he played on the 9th.
Some other poster mentioned that as he had not been checked by an FAI doctor, there was no case to answer. That, while still smelling slightly of bullsh!t, seems a more likely reason.Quote:
Any Participant Club refusing to release a player(s) selected for an International or Representative panel
under the jurisdiction of the FAI shall not be entitled to play such players(s) until a period of five (5)
calendar days has elapsed from the date of such fixture(s). Any selected player failing to join the panel shall
not be permitted to play for his Club for the same period. Call-ups of registered players by Associations
other than the FAI for International duty are governed by the regulations of FIFA.
Well you can close the thread now, as the FAI have said,
DERRY CITY HAVE NO CASE TO ANSWER,
Which means that the FAI can't be arsed sorting this out properly and by stonewalling it then are hoping it will be forgotten about within a day or so. I hope that Monaghan Utd or Shels take this further; a first day law student would obtain a judgement in the Law Courts over this fudge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derry
Paddy Mc faked an injury pulled out of the ROI squad and was then MOTM when we hammered Shels.
Turns out that there is something dodgy about this and we have the harps and shels fans up in arms.
FAI state no case to answer.
What a great week! :)
Enjoy the first division again next year lads!!
At least you're honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by nzamcdza
Derry Journal took this issue seriously: http://www.derryjournal.com/derry/De...ion.6583196.jp I guess they published before the FAI statement.
I dont think derry did to much wrong just tried to protect their interests and got away with it. the league on the other hand has been sadly lacking in leadership, moral backbone and honesty...... which is what one has come to expect.
We certainly seemed to have away with it. I'd certainly like to know how though - does this mean it's a rule the FAI just don't enforce or can't enforce? Either way seems to be another example of FAI rule ambiguity which can only lead to disaster.
It's easily enforced, though. If you are called up for international duty and cry off for whatever reason then all they need do is instruct a club not to play the relevant player until x date. While it's a loss that Derry would have done without said player for a vital game, it's also unfair to Shels that a player that wasn't supposed to be available to play did in fact line out; the fact that he made an impact on the game shows up the law to be an ass unless it's applied correctly or fairly.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Sure the rule can be enforced in that respect fairly easily, but why hasn't it? Someone mentioned he may have needed to be checked out by in FAI doc, so, what I meant was, can they not be bothered to make sure a doctor checks out any possible injury withdrawal? Is it too much hassle? Did they not consider this when they drew up the rule?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shedendinvisibl
Also surely something like this has happened before in the league - the FAI dismissal makes it seem like this is kinda of transgression happens occasionally (seems a bit quick to let Derry off the hook even for them...).
I'd imagine its a fairly standard rule across all European leagues.
I'd also assume that the FAI didn't think they needed to put in a rule about their own docter. Thinking that clubs would want their players to be part of the FAI teams.
Naive maybe, but there are/were loads of "good faith" type rules/laws in the league throughout the last 20 years. Shels battered a fair few of them in court
Guys these Under 19 matches are pointless having players away for 10 days isnt right. You dont see Under 21's or Senior teams or even U23's away for 10 days at a time playing mid season mini tournaments. We the fans pay good money to watch the best players in our league not to be away for 10 days playing for Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by passerrby
They're not pointless. just becausee you don't want to lose a player for 2 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flexy
And the reason they're away for 10 days is to CUT DOWN the amount of time they're away from their clubs. 3 games in a 6/7 day period is far more preferabel than going missing for 5/6 times instead (as they'd have to be home and away then...)
Oh and if you want pay good money for the "best players in the league", you're in the wrong decision. Stop being such a dramaqueen
Flexy, it's been pointed out to you already that the number of scouts at these matches alone renders them not pointless.
Can you please read what other people have to say before coming in with blind defence of your club?
Don't worry lads, Derry are 100% innocent as usual and all this is all just a made up story by us bitter Harps fans.
Sorry for inconvenience..............
Ireland did fairly well in these games from what I've hear, i reckon if they had of lost a few games the FAI would look at it completely differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by nzamcdza
Anyway, its over and done with now, no point in continuing this thread as the FAI have said Derry have done nothing wrong (even though they have)
In general clubs would want players to be involved, but I'd say most fans would feel a bit aggrieved at losing a key player for a prolonged period of time during a crucial run-in (not condoning btw).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Given it's fairly likely a club may not want a player to go it would surely require some addendum to enforce the rule, such as doctor or whatever? Good faith is one thing, but there doesn't seem to be a point in the rule if players/clubs can transgress with impunity.
Reminds me of the Ferrari team orders controversy a few months back, trying to exploit a loop hole by putting the onus on team member. Someone's mentioned the fact City released McEleney, but he withdrew himself - does that somehow avoid contravening the rule?
I dunno, whole thing's muddier than Tolka after a thunderstorm.
Stu,Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
There were a number of scouts at the Derry v Shels game. In fact I would nearly wager that there more at that game than at the u19 games....
Well thats just it SvD. The FAI do themselves no favours with their ambiguous rules
And the FAI are fairly used to players withdrawing from underage national squads if they're called into English first teams squads etc.
I honestly think that if Derry contacted the FAI to say that McEleney was badly needed by them, the FAI would've excsed him. They've no business is ****ing the lad and the club off either. Derry probably thought that'd set alarm bells ringing if the FAI said no and he pulled out injured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MariborKev
Not to see your injured lad, surely?
I would highly doubt that IMO, having dealt with scouts requesting access to League/Cup games and then International games in the Carlisle Grounds, International games win hands down for the number of scouts that attend these games.Quote:
Originally Posted by MariborKev
An international game could attract up to 15 or 20 scouts from all over Europe, League of Cup games would attract a max of 3 or 4 from the UK
Thankfully not Dodge. A few others are getting interest though....
No point in us worrying over it now. Whats done is done, and we probably wouldn't have gone on to win the league anyway, so we should just concentrate on getting playoffs. Monaghan on the other hand have genuine reason to feel completely cheated if Derry go on to win the league which I think they will. Some things never change in the county of Derry.
Steady on there title winners of '06. Even if the whole thing smells of pork, and even if Derry have engaged in a serious slice of pre-meditated cheating, it's all been done under the condoning eyes of our fair football association. Their ambiguous rules and poor enforcement is where the real annoyance lies.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSFShels
I don't have a problem if the rule is enforced the same for every club. Evens it won't be though.
Just because the FAI are cheats, does not make Derry any less cheats.
That's almost magnanimous..Quote:
Originally Posted by CSFShels
*suspicious*
If this were at the end of the season and we'd missed out on something as a result, I'd be absolutely ****ing fuming. Derry have cheated here point blank, the FAI have facilitated it, and they'll probably win the league as a result. But in the end it is Monaghan that suffer as a result, not really us. Extra 3 points or no, if we mess up against Limerick and Waterford we won't get playoffs. Everyone involved in Shels just needs to put this in the past, it wasn't fair, it was dishonest, we probably should have expected the unfair outcome, but now we have playoffs to qualify for, and promotion to win. We sure as hell aren't going to get either of those if we sit around crying over this. We know how things are done in Derry, you know how things are done in Derry, hell even people from Derry know how things are done at their clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by dfx-
Where did Derry cheat?Quote:
Originally Posted by CSFShels
Vinny, you might notice that there was no out cry when this happened before. Facts are, bad losers will cling to anything.
Who exactly are the FAI cheating? The last thing they would want is yet another promotion demotion scandal. Clearly they've rolled over for a reason, whether because of the ambiguity of the rule or the unenforceable aspects of it, and I hope they'll do so for other teams when it inevitably happens again - whether they do or not has nothing to do with Derry.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSFShels
And when it doesn't happen again, will it makes the other teams 'cheats' as well? Not exactly title robbing in fairness.
Do you wish for me to elaborate on the dual contracts they were giving out over a period of a number of years? The creditors they cheated out of money owed to them? Or we could refer to the instance in question here? Any of these is good for you? Are you here to tell me that McEleney's recovery was genuine and that he went from being unable to perform in an under 19s international match on the 7th to being able to play 90 minutes on the 9th and score 2 goals? Of course you are. Dishonesty is the Derry way.Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyDCFC
You've gotten your 3 points, theres no point in trying to plead innocence aswell. You won't find many unaware as to the reality.
The FAI have been cheating to achieve their desired outcome for a number of years. I think that is pretty much common knowledge. FAI and the fudge come pretty much hand in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Where did Derry cheat in the McEleney case?Quote:
Originally Posted by CSFShels
He got injured in Wexford on the 1st October and was well enough to play on the 9th October against Shelbourne, what's the problem?
Dry your eyes and read 3-0Quote:
Originally Posted by CSFShels
Refer back to the numerous posts that show the FAI rule in relation to players called up to international duties that cry off. It's plain and clear matter how you guys try and bend it.Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyDCFC
The bigger issue is the fact that the FAI can't apply their own rules and it says more about their ineptness and spinelessness more than it does about Derry IMO.
Summed it up much better than I could. Derry fans shouldn't assume innocence just because the FAI haven't punished them. On that basis, we should assume every team has always been 65% compliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shedendinvisibl
CSF,Quote:
Originally Posted by CSFShels
If you are going to have a go, at least have keep it to the issue in hand. A historic mudslinging hardly leads Richmond Road looking like the Gardens of Babylon.
McEleney pulled out of the squad after the Wexford game, a game he limped off in with about twenty minutes to go. A game a full eight days before the Shels game. He contacted the team management following that game and was released from the squad. The management retained the right to tell him to still join up with the squad with the hope that he recovered for the games. They didn't.
Perhaps the next time you see Paul Doolin, ask him about the whole thing. Still though, keep shouting your mouth off. It is much more amusing.