Why is defending a title such a benchmark? surely a team winning three titles in five years have done more than a team that won two in a row and no more, even if they have never defended it successfully.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
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Why is defending a title such a benchmark? surely a team winning three titles in five years have done more than a team that won two in a row and no more, even if they have never defended it successfully.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Not recently but...Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
The two clubs met in the quarter-finals of the 1984/85 Uefa Cup when the Spanish side beat 1-0 Tottenham away before a goalless draw at the Bernabeu helped them advance on the way to winning the trophy that season.
It's what of all the greatest European club sides throughout history have in common, whether that be the Real Madrid sides of the 1950s, the Ajax side of the early 1970s, the Bayern Munich side of the mid 1970s, the Liverpool side of the late 1970s, or of course, the Milan side of the late 80s/early 90s. The reason being, rather obviously, that each sides run of success was attained using largely the same players.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
The Barcelona side that won the Champions League in the 2005/06 season had a very different composition to the current side, with Ronaldinho, Deco and Eto'o comprising its main attacking triumvirate. This stands in contrast to the current sides 'holy trinity' of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta. Indeed, only two of the current Barcelona side (Valdes & Puyol) started the 2006 Champions League final, so for me it's too far removed from the current side to be considered.
League Table so far:
6 Bennocelt
6 Cfdh Edmundo
6 Shakermaker
5 Delorean
5 Gustavo
5 OwlsFan
Inter Milan v Schalke
Real Madrid v Tottenham
Barcelona v Shakhtar Donetsk
Chelsea v Man Utd
Inter Milan v Schalke
Real Madrid v Tottenham
Barcelona v Shakhtar Donetsk
Chelsea v Man Utd
I think Shakhtar could pull off a shock though....I don't know why but I don't think Barca will be meeting Madrid in the semi finals.
Anyone who has seen Barca's last few domestic games will have seen how much he is missed. They shipped a bag load of chances against Sevilla and very nearly squandered a 2 goal lead at home to Getafe.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Against Sevilla they were a bit unlucky, hitting the woodwork, having shots cleared off the line and having at least one perfectly obvious penalty denied, but at the same time Valdes saved them at least once from defeat. They are looking very vulnerable without Puyol and because they have not rotated much their star players will have to dig deep to keep standards up.
They're by no means a shoo-in to win the CL, or even La Liga. Real Madrid have kept up the pressure.
Yeah I agree about the Barca 2006 team in relation to their 2009/current side. I meant a team that consists of largely the same players winning 3 in 5 years? I think this Barca side are going to be considered great regarless of whether they retain the title at some point or not. As I've said previously, it's far harder to retain now than before I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Inter Milan v Schalke
Real Madrid v Tottenham
Barcelona v Shakhtar Donetsk
Chelsea v Man Utd
The thing is there is a sort-of UEFA benchmark associated with it. Or more specifically winning 3 in a row or 5 overall.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/...7_DOWNLOAD.pdf
"Multiple-winner badge
19.14 Subject to a licence being granted by UEFA, multiple winners of the UEFA
Champions League (three consecutive times or a minimum of five times) may
wear a multiple-winner badge on the free zone of the left shirt sleeve..."
It's that blue badge with a white number and trophy outline on it. Real Madrid, Milan, Liverpool, Ajax and Bayern have it (the latter 2 via the 3-in-a-row method); and all have won it more times than Barca. I think the blue badge, while being an asthetic marketing gimmick, is a reasonably good measure of European pedigree. This Barca team is yet to utterly dominate Europe, yes in 2008 and 2010 they went out in semi finals to eventual winners, but Valencia made two finals in a row and Benfica were involved in 5 of the finals in the 1960s (winning 2), in an annual trophy is coming 3rd/4th really a success ?
I can't help but think that a lot of the pontification of this Barca team is media induced. Yes they might currently be the best side to watch, but labelling them as the best-team-in-the-world-ever™, people have already mentioned the Milan team of the 1980s-1990s (in a vastly more competitive domestic league), but you could just as easily make a case for Beckenbauer's Bayern, Cryuff's Ajax or internationally the Wunderteam, Puskas's Hungary etc being better.
Inter Milan v Schalke
Real Madrid v Tottenham
Barcelona v Shakhtar Donetsk
Chelsea v Man Utd
Just speaking for myself, but because the game progresses in terms of absolute standard every ten years or so, the best team of the moment is probably the best there has been.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
But I take the point - Andy Murray who has won eff all is probably a better player in absolute terms than Bjorn Borg ever was, but Borg was a legend and Murray has a lot to do to become anything other than Britain's best player for a long time.
For me, Barcelona are the best team I have ever seen, but they are not as great a team (yet?) as some of those mentioned above. Absolute quality versus relative quality in a temporal context I suppose.
In terms of the extent to which a particular team has been better than every other team around them, AC Milan of the early 90's would be my choice. There was a bigger gap between them and everybody else than any other team I've seen in any era.
Yeah, it really is UEFA driven. I suppose the 5 overall bit doesn't really apply to 'the best team ever' discussion as there were more than likely going to be completely different sets of players from the first to the fifth, Real Madrid 1950's aside. I think any team that win three in a row have to be taken seriously in this discussion, much more so than two in a row. Man Utd weren't a million miles from winning two in a row in 2009, with a team that could hardly be considered 'great' even if they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
More competitive league, yes...but more competitive European Cup competition?? probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Inter Milan Schalke
Real Madrid Tottenham
Barcelona Shakhtar Donetsk
Chelsea Man Utd
Great Freudian slip from 'arry when being interviewed after Spurs' 4-0 defeat to Real. When talking about Crouch and his early Red card "he's the most ineffective player you could meet" or words to that effect, what he meant was inoffensive.......made me chuckle anyway.
I had to laugh when he was bemoaning Krankjaer being injured on the bench.....since when did he give a f*ck about him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
I've missed predicitions on the two games last night, but for the other two qaurters I'll go:
Barca Shaktar
Chelsea Man Utd
He has always rated Kranjcar. Why else would he sign him for two different clubs? He's just not in his best eleven at the moment and, to be fair, it's hard to see where he would fit him in. Who would you drop for him with everybody fit?Quote:
Originally Posted by KK77
Redknapp on Kranjcar
Who would you have gone for before last night's games, we'll believe you? (except maybe Bennocelt, serious trust issues that fella!:rolleyes:)Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Surprised to see you go for Man U, any particular reason or just a hunch?
He should really play him more often if he rates him that highly. Recent results against struggling teams in the league would surely warrant giving the fella a chance mind you i heard him and an interviewer at the weekend saying that recent results are more to do with these struggling teams being very good. Bale didn't play Saturday so he could have played him then instead of Jenas or he could easily have played him in place of Lennon against West Ham or brought him on at at some stage, he could have played him against Wolves or even Blackpool seen as he rates him so highly. All those results have been extremly poor for Spurs and here's a player he rates highly getting five minutes here and five mintes there if that and he is moaning about him last night among other excuses. Amazing how things can be spinned.
Yeah, it's strange that he doesn't get more game time alright, especially after his winning goals against Bolton and Sunderland. Jenas is awful alright, he should always play ahead of him. Maybe he doesn't trust him in the centre.
[QUOTE=DeLorean;1474086]Yeah, it's strange that he doesn't get more game time alright, especially after his winning goals against Bolton and Sunderland. Jenas is awful alright, he should always play ahead of him. Maybe he doesn't trust him in the centre.[/QUOTE]
Fair point. Exactly on Bolton and Sunderland. Back to back winners and the last time they won in the league. Think i read he said he will have to leave in the summer. A good buy for anyone. Wouldn't mind seeing him Liverpool if he'd come. No European football may not help! LOL
Barca Shaktar
Chelsea Man Utd
I'd have gone for Inter and Real, but not with any major conviction on either, certainly not a 4-0.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Just think Chelsea might be a bit weak at the back and Terry could be found out depending on who is playing next to him. Terry is slow and immobile and with David Luiz cup tied it could be one of Ivanovic (who is better as a full back), Ferraira (a bit passed it), or Alex (I don't think he's fully fit, is he?). Ancelotti might try and drop Essien back defence but that will just weaken their midfield. I also think they could come unstuck upfront as they will be tempted to play Torres, but this could reduce the impact of Drogba. Kobenhaven made Chelsea look very ordinary in the last round and the Danes were a pretty poor side. The pace of Valencia and Nani will cause Chelsea problems, if Ferguson played Hernandez for both legs then I would expect Man Utd to win over the 180 mins. As it stands (with him probably playing Rooney and Berbatov more) they might create a lot of chances but struggle to take most of them. It could be like the Liverpool - Chelsea matches 4-5 years ago and go to extra time and penalties.
Chicarito starts. I'm looking forward to him giving Terry the run around!
anyone got a stream for Chelsea United? Stuck at work and cant seem to find any today...
How aws that not a penalty at Stamford Bridge?
The standard of refereeing everywhere is driving me mad. Who are these gimps behind the goal? I think it's fair to say that the extra officials experiment has added no value in any game I've seen.
Stonewall peno but some you get some you don't. Would have been harsh on Utd to draw the game being fair. Poor enough game and Chelsea i thought were awful. As bad as i have seen them play in a long long time. Brady sumed it up well saying Man U were better in that they were more composed and relaxed but still not great. Drogba really is a stain on the game holding his jaw twice i think and his jaw wasn't even touched in either incident if you wanted to call them incidents. On a side note anyone hear Dunphy at the start of the coverage calling Valencia a proper winger and then 20/25 minutes later call him ordinary! Thought that was hilarious! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Some result in the other game. Didn't see that score at all. Only watched the hilights but Barce seemed below their best and the manager seemed to say that after.
Barca rode their luck, the Ukrainians were through one-on-one vs Valdes several times in the first half and their strikers kept scuffing it wide.
Also at 4-1 they hit the inside of the post, the ball rolled along the goal line and didn't go in... 4-2 would have been a very different score in terms of the second leg.
This Barca side is far from invincible.
I heard that alright. He was even worse talking about Real Madrid a few weeks back. He said they have nobody in centre midfield who can get a hold of the ball, certainly nobody of the calibre of Scholes, Fabregas or wait for it...Wilshere or Nasri!! The same guy was raving about Alonso his whole time at Liverpool, now he's not even as good as a young fella who has shown a little bit of promise or a guy who doesn't even play in centre midfield. Somebody should write a book on ridiculous Dunphy stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by KK77
I only saw the last half hour of the United match but it was clearly a penalty. It's a strange kind of result, you'd think winning away in the first leg and you're almost in the semi final, but I don't think that is the case at all here. Chelsea have an unbelievable record at Old Trafford, even when they were poor they used get results there. Ray Houghton kept going on about the importance of the away goal, presumably referring to the away goals rule. In effect, United don't really have an away goal in that sense, they just have a regular goal and a one goal lead. Chelsea are the only side who can benifit from the away goals rule after last night, I don't think Ray really grasps that.
I saw the highlights and couldn't believe the number of clear-cut chances they shipped. Some wise old head here talked about how important Carles Puyol was to Barca before he got injured. How right he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Barca have been wobbling a bit of late, though their results have been holding up. They use such a thin squad they could well be knackered if they get past Real Madrid (or Spurs - I've seen Arsenal and both Milan teams blow big leads in the recent past so I'm ruling nothing out!).
So its:
Real v Barca
Schalke v Man Utd
I have a funny feeling the Germans might make Man Utd sweat a bit. Alan McInally, actually one of the few pundits on Sky worth listening to in terms of foreign football, says Man Utd will need to be at 100% (i.e. no injuries) to make it through the tie.
The best thing about the draw is that there's now gonna be 4 classicos over the next month or so.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Raul vs Real per chance? - presumably the longest odds of all permitations...
Maybe, but in another way that might have made a better final.
Predictions League so far:
9 Shakermaker
8 Bennocelt
8 OwlsFan
7 Gustavo
6 Cfdh Edmundo
6 Delorean
Real v Barca
Schalke v Man Utd
Hi lads, just started my football blog with a short article about Raul if anybody is interested.
http://footballingopinons.blogspot.c...04/raul-7.html
I'm going to do the opposite of Shakermaker, my only hope of joint success!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Real v Barca
Schalke v Man Utd
I was amazed so many of you went for Chelsea!
I'll wait to see what injuries each semi finalist has before predicting.