to be fair, the short piece by Lawrenson about Spion Kop was excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
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to be fair, the short piece by Lawrenson about Spion Kop was excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Lawrenson can be good on the Matt Cooper show, but when he's on BBC he's a pain.I hate to say it but Shearer can be quite painful as well,....and Hanson. However, I'd take any of them over listening to Redknapp,Tyler, Keys or that clownn Andy Gray. They have gone so bad that I rarely watch premier league on sky now. at least when they cover the lower division games there is less chance that one of those fools will be on the box
You forgot the part where Giles says "We can only go on what we see".Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
You never hear or learn anything new from Dunphy, Giles or Brady. And they only reason they are so well liked is because the competition from the likes of the BBC, Sky and ITV is so poor. Jurgen Klinsman on ESPN has been outstanding during this World Cup. He goes into detail how the German team prepares. Describing how the German back room team make sure the German players are happy and confident before they get out on the pitch. And his knowledge of the other teams is outstanding. Not just the players and managers. But their training routines. Set pieces. Fitness levels.
General rule of thumb, coaches/managers make good pundits because they actually know a lot about the game.
Ex-players are hit and miss because if they were really knowledgeable they would have gone into coaching/management.
George Hamilton was terrible during the Uruguay vs. Ghana match last night. He made so many mistakes in his commentary. Off the top of my head he said that it was the first penalty shoot-out of the tournament (Paraguay vs. Japan was) and that the winner would play either Argentina or Germany (they'll play the Netherlands). There was a lot more than that though. He's usually alright in his commentary so maybe it was just a bad night last night. Trevor Stevens I think was doing co-commentary and didn't correct him once either.
I agree - he's very articulate and intelligent. The very antithesis of a UK / IRL footballer, for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
He was a very intelligent footballer, which is probably part of it. I imagine somebody like Bergkamp would also be really good.
The difference with Klinsmann and the other continentals is they see more than the sky leagues! Most other countries have have decent commentary and analysis, how many of the Irish and British heads know about anything more than their own insular world?
Eamon Dunphy is the world's foremost expert on La Liga.
Had to laugh at the end of full time in the Ghana vs Uruguay game when Laughing Bill asked Dunphy who he thought would win and Dunphy said "It's anybody's game". "What do you think, John?" "It's anybody's game Bill".
The prolonged discussion they had earlier on the dominance of South American teams and the decline of European football seems to have died a death.
Hamilton mentioned that Ghana were the last African team in the tournament and "carrying the hopes of Africa" at least 15 times. Does he think we all suffer from Alzheimers ?
What was I saying?
Was going to just start spouting, but have decided to look at the networks one at a time
RTÉ
Have liked RTÉs coverage best of the 3. Highs & lows obviously, but from what I've seen Dunphy is still Dunphy, and god bless him. I've come to see what people say about Giles having a bit of knowledge, But i still think his time has come, and the same goes for Brady. But its been the others I've liked most. Whelan, and Irwin have been really good, and I would like to see one of them in Giles seat come the next qualifiers. Steven and Souness have been good as well, but for me the real star of the show has been Ozzie Ardiles. I've really liked having a south American view on things. As for Didi Hamann, it doesn't really matter what he says, that Germano-Scouse accent of his is like someone scraping their nails down a blackboard.
Bill should be put out to grass.
BBC
Hansen is all that remains of what used to be excellent coverage, and even he is a shadow of his former self. That perma-tanned jug-eared fool is still has all the authority of an 8 year old sitting on Des Lynams seat on bring your son to work day, and the sooner Colin Murray is given the job the better. The only one who offered any kind of opinion was Adebayor, who was actually very good. And as for that bus....
ITV
Better than they used to be I would have to say, but coming from a very low base. Steve Ryder was rightly dispensed with, and I have to say I like Adrian Chiles in the chair. He asks the right questions of the experts - the questions the man in the street is asking himself - which is something Lineker will never be able to do having played the game. Southgate and Townsend are still awful, and always will be. Keegan was terrible, Chris Coleman actually refered to England as 'we', but Clive Tyldesley and jim Beglin are still a solid team, Beglin in particular is terrific.
Also saw Klinsmann on a channel somewhere, and he was excellent as ever. can't remember which station though
Don't think these two words should make into the one paragraph....;)Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
Just watched the wrinklies on RTE dismiss Holland as a poor side. Can't understand why tbh.
Is it because they beat Scotland home and away? Is it that they won all their qualifiers?? Is it that they won all their finals games?? Or that they were the first qualified European team last year?? Beat Brazil maybe??
Or is it, as I suspect, that they didn't think they'd make the final 4 weeks ago in the first place?
To be fair I don't think they are writing them off a poor side.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
They have the "Beautiful Game" goggles on and Holland don't really play in the way we all expect them to or have become accustomed to. In an ideal world Holland will not win the world cup with the mindset they play with.
For example (correct me if you can point out the positives) Van Bommel and De Jong (although he didn't play tonight) it's very hard to see what they bring to a game other than the G.B.H they inflict on other players.
Don't know what they're complaining about though. They've won all their games, scoring a fair quota of goals. They've only won one game 1-0. If they win the final, they deserve the trophy. I have been very impressed with them.
I think their hatred of Holland is 99% van Bommel-based, but I do think they're right in that they haven't played with a lot of fluency so far. van Persie's injury seems to be affecting them a lot.
Was Van Persie offside or not for the second goal? He looked level but ITV have this great freeze frame when you can whirl around and look at it from the view of the linesman and while his body was level, his foot was slightly ahead so technically he was offside. From the view the RTE panel, he looked level when the ball was played but that didn't stop Dunphy launching in to one of his attacks on officiating and how he can't understand how linesmen can get their decision right and how poor they are. I still think the latter's job is the most difficult in sport and I am amazed how they get so many correct. A linesman has to be looking at two places at the one time and make a split second decision. The panel is treated to slow motion replays and then castigate the hapless Official. I don't think I'd take on that job for all the money Dunphy makes from being controversial. As for his praise of Kuyt before the game, I almost fell off my chair. He and Giles have incessently attacked the player and yet there were paeans of praise for him last night.
Giles was right about Van Bommel though. He gets away with murder and ironically was booked at the end for protesting about some decision.
Is Murray that fool from Northern Ireland? what a creep! He licks the **** off the guests, and may as well wear an England shirt. His comments about Maradona were sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
Chiles annoys me also - another brown -noser. However, I forgive him somewhat because I really enjoyed his book, and he does seem to have serious passion for the game
I think RTÉ were right when they said that offside is any part of you - bar your arms - ahead of the last man. In that case, he was offside I think. But I think the law also states that in the case of doubt, you give benefit of the doubt to the attacking team, in which case, the linesman was correct to allow the goal. The call was so marginal and didn't justify at all the over-the-top comments from the studio.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Daylight is the rule I thought
Changed in 2005 - "Any part of his head, body or feet is nearer to his opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent (the last opponent typically being the goalkeeper). The arms are not included in this definition" - from wikipedia from the laws of the game per FIFA.
Not me, think they have only played well for about 20 minutes in the whole tournament. Like their cheating too, esp Robben, and if Brazil had got their act together they should have knocked them outQuote:
Originally Posted by mypost
They've scored an average of 2 goals a game, they have great players in Sneijder, Robben, Van Bommel, Van Bronkhorst, and decent ones throughout the side. They've beaten teams from Europe, Asia, Africa, and South America. If they do win it, they'll deserve it.
Yeah and they havent played well for most of those games......................Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
says a lot about the teams they have played then.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
havnt they won all their qualifiers also? If they are unbeaten for the qualifiers and the finals then they are worthy winners. who has played well this wc really?
And the standard of footballQuote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Germany
They won their first 3 games in Euro 2008, then lost to Portugal. They then won all 8 qualifiers and have won 6 out of 6 in normal time in Sth Africa. 17 wins in their last 18 competitive games is remarkable. I just posted more on the Dutch on the "shameful moments" thread so i won't repeat it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Wrt the general standard of football I think it's been OK. We all know that the best club teams that we watch so often are probably better than almost every international team. Gone are the days where we'd watch a WC and we'd witness a whole new footballing culture - we know alnmost everything about global football just from our armchairs these days. The beauty of international football is that the gap between good and bad is much narrower than it used to be, and I just love the fact that money can't buy success like it does in club football.
Long live international football and the world Cup. I love it.
I think the argument that the dutch would be worthy winners isn't necessarily contradicting the argument that they haven't been brilliant. Any team which knocks out Brazil and beats Germany / Spain in the final will deserve it, as will either Germany or spain, as they've had good results also.
That said, neither Holland or Spain have played the kind of football I'd like to see WC winners play. In Holland's case, they haven't tried to, and Spain just haven't done it consistently. Germany, for me, have been the most exciting team to watch, and I'd like them to win it because of that.
yeah agree 100%, pity I have all my bets lying with Spain though!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
And what kind of football is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
The current champions, play some of the most boring football on the planet, and needed penalties to win a god awful final last time.
You don't win prizes for playing attractive football, you win them by winning your games. That's what the Dutch have done, nobody can argue with their record, and with the record they have, they have to be a formidable side.
They lost to Russia at the Euros, didn't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Agreed. It's like saying whoever wins the LoI this year will probably deserve it (table never lies over 36 games and all that), but they still won't have been any good.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
The Dutch tried winning it with beautiful football before and it didn't work. This time it's pragmatic football. Having lost it twice before and since all the RTE Panel will support Spain, I think I would like the Netherlands to win. The Spanish have their European Title. Other than Arjen Robben falling over ever time he is touched, I quite like them. Their fans always travel in numbers like us.
Hup Holland.
Didn’t get involved in this thread as I don’t believe in over analysing the analysts. However some thoughts on the various panels.
RTE
Usual tripe. They confuse being negative for the sack of it with being “honest”. Rarely ever give anybody any credit. Giles knowledge is appalling but at least he understands the game. Dunphy’s a cartoon and I still hate O’Herlihy. Do we still need the “dumb everyman” style of presenting? Surely we’re a bit more savvy than that? I think Whelan is the worst type of cliché prone pundit. Football’s changed Ronnie, it isn’t the 80s anymore. Souness isn’t great but he at least he adds a dissenting voice every now and again. On the co-commentary front I have particular disdain for Houghton (same reason as Whelan, also very negative). I don’t mind Steven. Think he at least tries to analyse stuff. Can be entertaining in a “two drunks trying to punch each other” kind of way
BBC
Have the best analyst around in Lee Dixon IMO. Sometimes gets carried away with the jolly boys atmosphere along with Lineker, Hanson and Shearer but one of the few who gives insight to the game. The big three are horrendous. Remember when Hanson gave a ****? Shearer is at the same level as Townsend and Redknapp now. Colin Murray is an absolute tool. Another who confuses controversy for having an opinion. On the co-commentary front I’m not a fan of Lawrenson (and his refusal to budge from an opinion, however wrong it may be proven) but he’s OK. Mark Bright made the single worst comment I’ve heard watching football. On Messi “I don’t get the hype. The two or three times I’ve seen him play he hasn’t been great. Doesn’t look interested enough for me”. How can a commentator have a job having only seen Messi 2 or 3 times. And how can he be allowed spout rubbish about ANY player he’s only seen 2 or 3 times?
ITV
Worse again. Saved from total embarrassment by Southgate’s occasional good point. He argued with Townsend that maybe the Premiership isn’t all it’s cracked up to be and that English players aren’t as good as some make out (when all tried to lay blame solely on Capello’s door). Can resoprt to bland generalistions though. The rest are beyond awful; Keegan and Townsend as bad as any in my time watching TV. On the co-commentary front Beglin is quite good. Can get stuck in his opinion in a Hamliton way but generally looks at the game on its own.
Not many of the “guests” brought anything to any of the stations. Maybe Klinsmann and Seedorrf on BBC but the likes of Adeboyer, Davids etc were all rubbish.
Football is so much better when not on TV…
I wouldn't really disagree with anything you've said there Dodge (I cannot comment on RTE because I don't get to see it, bar watching replays on youtube) bar you describing Lawro as ok. I'd describe him as a miserable ******* ******. Other than that your spot on!
The only positives from this WC have been Klinsmann and Beglin. Beglin on ITV knows his football and it's a shame he is paired up with Tyldesley. BBC should have brought O'Neill to South Africa.
Scene: World Cup game between Togo and Spain.
Panel: Bill O'Herlihy (Laughing Bill), John Giles (Father Time), Ronnie Whelan (When I played at Liverpool) and Eamon Dunphy (I agree with John):
Bill: (sitting in a chair 6 times to big for him) Now, I read in the Beano that Togo, also known as the Sparrow Eagles, are favourites to beat Spain by 3 clear goals. Do you agree with that Eamon?
Dunphy: That's rubbish Bill and by the way they're the Sparrow Hawks (hiding his copy of the Beano under the table).
Bill: laughs. You’re not going to give me the bird, are you Eamon?
Panel: Breaks in to laughter.
Dunphy: Although Spain are weak at the back, I know a lot about Spanish football by the way, Togo will be like a bull fighting against 11 matadors.
Bill: laughs. As the Senior Analyst, do you agree with that John?
Giles: (tugs on his jacket and attempts to be seen above the desk but still leans back) I agree with Eamon, Bill. Spain will have too much class for Togo, Bill. They are a bit weak at the back though, Bill.
Bill: Do you agree with that, Ronnie?
Whelan: (sitting upright and looking as if his piles are at him): I agree with Eamon and John. Spain will have too much class for Togo. They are a bit weak at the back though.
Bill (reading notes) : Togo beat Bophuthatswana 1-0 in a warm up game. Should we read much in to that, John?
Giles: (shifts uneasily in the chair, tugs at his jacket and looks at Dunphy): You can only beat who are put in front of you, Bill, but I wouldn’t read much in to that, Bill.
Bill: Ronnie, do you agree with the senior analyst?
Whelan: I agree with John. You can only beat who are put in front of you but I wouldn’t read much in to that.
Dunphy: Bophuthatswana are the Hartlepool of Africa, Bill. They’re rubbish.
Bill: laughs
Dunphy: Having seen a lot of Spanish football on tv when I go for a swift half or two to Davy Byrnes, I can tell you that the Spanish are a class act, although weak at the back. They’ll wipe the floor with these guys. Their manager is a clown. Their striker, Mohamed Kadir, is a cheat.
Bill: You’ve seen them play?
Dunphy: (looking uncomfortable) – Trust me Bill, they’re rubbish.
Bill: (laughs): Ronnie?
Whelan: They’ll wipe the floor with these guys. Their manager is a clown. Their striker, Mohamed Kadir, is a cheat.
Bill: John?
Giles: (tugs on jacket) - I agree with Eamon. You can only beat what is put in front of you. I know I am repeating myself but you can only beat what is put in front of you.
Dunphy: Togo have a tough midfielder. Likes to get his retaliation in first. Reminds me of John.
Panel: breaks in to hysterical laughter although they have heard this 73 times before.
Giles: preens (and tugs on his jacket).
Whelan: Togo have a tough midfielder. Likes to get his retaliation in first. Reminds me of John.
Panel: No one laughs.
Bill: We have a clip here showing Togo find it hard to keep possession (30 second clip shown of Togo giving the ball away twice in a 90 minute game).
Dunphy: If these guys give the ball away like this, Spain will murder them although they are weak at the back.
Giles: (tugs at jacket). Bill, I agree with Eamon. Tonga need to retain possession, Bill ((Dunphy: Togo, John, Togo)). Togo or whatever they are called need to get the ball down and play, Bill. I know I am repeating myself but they need to get the ball down and play, Bill
Whelan (facial expression hasn’t changed in 15 minutes). I agree with John and Eamon. If these guys give the ball away like this, Spain will murder them although they are weak at the back. They need to get the ball down and play.
Bill: Do you need to keep possession and score goals to win a game?
Apres match is better.
Think you're right actually. For some reason I thought it was Portugal, with Russian ref, the one who looks like Fr. Dick Byrne.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Cant say I disagree with with most of the ITV / BBC Comments and I cant stand Mark Bright as a pundit, though I think you are being a little harsh with regards to Brights comments on Messi. Alan Davies has a weekly podcast called "Armchair World Cup" or something similiar and they ripped the pi$$ out of that as well. In fairness, he said he had only seen Messi 2 or 3 times live and in those games Messi had been quiet/ineffective - words to that effect anyway. Pretty silly comment to make after the season he's had but not quite as stupid as has been made out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge