Sporting Fingal Gone Belly Up

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16/03/2010, 9:45 PM
total hoofball

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lep

We were not alone in making a loss last year so lets wait until after next year to see where we stand regarding our finance.

What other club came close to making a ~780k operating loss last season?

I don't think even Bohs would have lost that amount!
16/03/2010, 9:48 PM
The Lep

It wasnt
16/03/2010, 9:51 PM
total hoofball

Quote:

Originally Posted by higgins

What other income did they have outside of Gannon?

From what I remember when the club was initially formed, main sponsors Keelings were pumping in 250k per season. I heard, can't say for certain though, that this figure was reduced due to the economic downturn affecting Keelings
16/03/2010, 9:53 PM
total hoofball

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lep

It wasnt

It wasn't what?
16/03/2010, 9:55 PM
The Lep

Quote:

Originally Posted by total hoofball

From what I remember when the club was initially formed, main sponsors Keelings were pumping in 250k per season. I heard, can't say for certain though, that this figure was reduced due to the economic downturn affecting Keelings

Their sponsorship has been very fruitful so far.
16/03/2010, 10:28 PM
Dalymountrower

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lep

Im not gonna get into an argument of whether Fingal is a county or not. I live in County Fingal thats all that matters. If you dont think its a county then so be it.

By that logic,pople from Nenagh live in County North Tipperary
17/03/2010, 12:14 AM
Lamper.sffc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

I hope you are right. I doubt, but of course can never be certain, that the club do not have a plan in place should Gannon lose interest. As iv always said from the beginning, time will tell whether we do alright or not. We have actually lasted longer than a lot of others in here thought. While everybody else has been predicting doom and gloom for our club since the beginning, a hell of alot has actually happened to other clubs while we have been fine (so far)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamper.sffc

I hope you are right. I doubt, but of course can never be certain, that the club do not have a plan in place should Gannon lose interest. As iv always said from the beginning, time will tell whether we do alright or not. We have actually lasted longer than a lot of others in here thought. While everybody else has been predicting doom and gloom for our club since the beginning, a hell of alot has actually happened to other clubs while we have been fine (so far) So, as people keep saying, that our way has proven to be the wrong way in the past, which I totally understand them saying. It really hasnt worked anyway for most of the clubs recently now has it. I personally will be crossing my fingers hoping all clubs can come through this recession, and a stonger, better league will come from it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by total hoofball

Lets get things straight. Sporting Fingal can only survive on Gannon's 'investment', 780k is too large of a figure for a club to bridge with no ground, no assets, no history and a small youthful fanbase in its infancy. Gerry Gannon is bust, broke, cream crackered. If Anglo Irish Bank were let sink as they should have been in September 2008 and Fianna F�il never created the criminal NAMA scam, Gannon would be have been gone 12 months ago and Sporting Fingal would have sunk with him. We are watching a doomed club been given a stay of execution due to political/property developer ******ology. Cork, Derry, Kildare did not have this unique luxury that Sporting Fingal have. As the accounts show Sporting Fingal are wildly unsustainable, totally dependent on Gannon's invisible money and are effectively the LOI version of Anglo Irish Bank, a zombie football club who are doomed because the fundamentals of what is needed to be a sustainble LOI entity are entirely non-existant and are living on borrowed time (and money).

Mate dont quote me on the bit that makes your argument more valid. Quote everything i said. Iv never said it will definately work for us Im simply saying im willing to wait and see. Your over the top rant at me is pointless because im not saying what will happen at fingal will work, im just stating that what is happening at most clubs hasnt been working either and people should focus on their own clubs and stop trying to look for the problems with others. Take a chill pill my friend. We are not totally disagreeing.
17/03/2010, 12:25 AM
The Lep

Quote:

Originally Posted by total hoofball

Lets get things straight. Sporting Fingal can only survive on Gannon's 'investment', 780k is too large of a figure for a club to bridge with no ground, no assets, no history and a small youthful fanbase in its infancy. Gerry Gannon is bust, broke, cream crackered. If Anglo Irish Bank were let sink as they should have been in September 2008 and Fianna F�il never created the criminal NAMA scam, Gannon would be have been gone 12 months ago and Sporting Fingal would have sunk with him. We are watching a doomed club been given a stay of execution due to political/property developer ******ology. Cork, Derry, Kildare did not have this unique luxury that Sporting Fingal have. As the accounts show Sporting Fingal are wildly unsustainable, totally dependent on Gannon's invisible money and are effectively the LOI version of Anglo Irish Bank, a zombie football club who are doomed because the fundamentals of what is needed to be a sustainble LOI entity are entirely non-existant and are living on borrowed time (and money).

And your point is?
17/03/2010, 12:32 AM
CSFShels

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lep

And your point is?

Em its clearly articulated in his first sentence.
17/03/2010, 12:38 AM
The Lep

Its not 100% accurate now is it.
17/03/2010, 12:48 AM
CSFShels

No but not far off it either.
17/03/2010, 1:00 AM
The Lep

Far enough. Lets take one season at a time shall we , no point going on ifs and maybes . Much to the dislike of some,Sporting Fingal will see out the season and im confident they will start next years season in the division they qualified for on the pitch at the end of this season. Just because you want us gone it doesnt meant it will happen anytime soon so lets just enjoy this season shall we .
17/03/2010, 1:09 AM
dublinred

1247 at morton on Friday probably max 2-300 rovers fans so Fingal have accumulated 1000 home fans in the space of a few seasons .As a resident of the area I still think its stupid moving to lusk instead of swords but I understand the council are buying part of one of your sponsers landbanks ,so probably makes sense from ongoing funding perspective to keep the sponsors sweet.
17/03/2010, 9:39 AM
drummerboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by dublinred

1247 at morton on Friday probably max 2-300 rovers fans so Fingal have accumulated 1000 home fans in the space of a few seasons .As a resident of the area I still think its stupid moving to lusk instead of swords but I understand the council are buying part of one of your sponsers landbanks ,so probably makes sense from ongoing funding perspective to keep the sponsors sweet.

A friendly dig out. They seem to have a very cosy little relationship.
17/03/2010, 11:07 AM
srfc1928

The Sporting Fingal / Gerry Gannon relationship was featured on Business Matters this week (TV3)
They questioned whether Gannon could continue to fund Fingal as he is one of the first to be placed in NAMA.
17/03/2010, 11:18 AM
GUFCghost

if they are getting crowds of 1000 and they don't deserve to be in the league,then Galway don't too.
17/03/2010, 11:35 AM
passerrby

Quote:

Originally Posted by GUFCghost

if they are getting crowds of 1000 and they don't deserve to be in the league,then Galway don't too.

if you win promotion and comply with licence requirements you deserve to be there and no club is in any position to say otherwise
17/03/2010, 1:19 PM
BonnieShels

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lep

Yes it is and it was a county before the city of Dublin reached into it.

Fingal is an administrative county. That's all it is.
I know that counties by their very nature are administrative area but thanks to the GAA (Fingal play as a 'county' in the National Hurling League but that's more to do with the proliferation of hurlers and is part of the greater super Dublin hurling plan to have another panel to take from), counties in Ireland have taken on a serious significance culturally. I work for D�n Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council and I can tell you as a matter of fact that it is not a county in the 'Irish' sense of the word.
Fair dues to someone who has an afffinity to Fingal and not to Dublin, although I find it odd!
The North bank of the Liffey in Lucan is in Fingal and the southside of the village is in South Dublin County and I don't think you could say that they have regional rivalry!

I think it's a difficult for a lot of people on this site and in the wider LOI community in general to look at Fingal and want to them to succeed considering their provenance and their connection to a developer and a wildly dodgy council. I would count me among their number. Being a Shels fan doesn't help either! Fingal fans need to stop acting hard-done-by and having a Millwall attitude and need to start winning the wider community over.
17/03/2010, 2:04 PM
The Lep

By no means do i feel hard done by :) I didnt expect any diffrent response from a shells fan to be honest. Where are you going with this millwall attitude ?
I think its sad that SOME so called fans of our league would love to see another league club fold and not succeed. The truth is and what is important Sporting Fingal are here and will be here for another while yet . What division we will be in will be decided on the pitch and if we are full or part time and no amout of begrudgery or wishful thinking by those who wish to see us out of the league will change that.
Its only the start of the season lads so lets enjoy it ye. There have been some legit points made on here and i agree with some and im sure that most Fingal fans arent naive to think that our financial status will remain the same for a number of years so like i said earlier we can only deal with whats on the table at the moment and im going to enjoy this season and no amout of negative postings from those who want to see Fingal fold will change that.
17/03/2010, 7:02 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by srfc1928

The Sporting Fingal / Gerry Gannon relationship was featured on Business Matters this week (TV3)
They questioned whether Gannon could continue to fund Fingal as he is one of the first to be placed in NAMA.

Did they come to any sort of conclusion?

(Though I don't expect much from any TV3 show)
17/03/2010, 7:04 PM
Mr A

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Did they come to any sort of conclusion?

(Though I don't expect much from any TV3 show)

TV3 draws only two conclusions:

1. Society is fecked. We're all going to be killed in our beds.
2. Boobs.
17/03/2010, 8:01 PM
Longfordian

I agree with at least half of those conclusions
17/03/2010, 11:21 PM
CSFShels

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lep

I think its sad that SOME so called fans of our league would love to see another league club fold and not succeed.

Most people here support their club, not the league.
17/03/2010, 11:48 PM
The Lep

In saying that, do you mean that most support their clubs and not the league that they are in ?
18/03/2010, 9:39 AM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSFShels

Most people here support their club, not the league.

Appreciate that but if there were no other clubs there would be no league for their club to play in ! personally I support bohs 100% but hope for a successfull league and accordingly don't like to see any club(s) "go under".

Any fan of any LOI club can surely empathise with fans of a club going under ? There but for the grace of God.......
18/03/2010, 9:43 AM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSFShels

Most people here support their club, not the league.

That certainly isn't the impression I get about posters on here.

I think most fans support their own club first, obviously, but also dislike the negative criticism the LOI gets as a result of other clubs' actions. I'd say the vast majority on here want to see a healthy LOI with healthy clubs.

Actually I think the whole "I support my club, not the league" line is just crap that posters think allows them to make stupid attacks on other clubs.
18/03/2010, 9:45 AM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSFShels

Most people here support their club, not the league.

I don't think that'd be correct. Some people would, but nowhere near most, I'd say.

And supporting the league, in my opinion, means not wanting to see clubs so clearly set themselves up for such a big, bad-news-worthy, fall.
18/03/2010, 9:52 AM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

And supporting the league, in my opinion, means not wanting to see clubs so clearly set themselves up for such a big, bad-news-worthy, fall.

Yeah, most want to see a sustainable league. As things stand, there is no way the current model of SF is sustainable, no matter how people try and dress it up. At this stage the league is in a lose lose - SF carry on inflating wages by unsustainable spending, or they crash and burn in a blaze of negative publicity. It should never have got to this point, but then we're back to "licencing" that it did.
18/03/2010, 10:09 AM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

Yeah, most want to see a sustainable league. As things stand, there is no way the current model of SF is sustainable, no matter how people try and dress it up. At this stage the league is in a lose lose - SF carry on inflating wages by unsustainable spending, or they crash and burn in a blaze of negative publicity. It should never have got to this point, but then we're back to "licencing" that it did.

but Sporting Fingal have not breached any of the licencing criteria - I have never even heard it suggested that they did. I don't see how licencing can exclude one large benifactor as this would rule out most clubs (for example I doubt St Pats could have sustained losses in last few years but for one benefactor).
as said before I hope SF are preparing for a "soft landing" or have alternative funding sources in place if/when the Gannon money ceases.
Incidentally because someone goes into NAMA does not mean they are broke (although not a good sign :eek:). I think Gannon (or any other benefactor) can write the investment off against tax so as long as his company(s) generates a tax liability SF will probobly continue to benifit.
18/03/2010, 10:12 AM
Longfordian

Don't think there's any tax breaks available for investing in a sports club. Unless they have charitable status which I would doubt.
18/03/2010, 10:20 AM
marinobohs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longfordian

Don't think there's any tax breaks available for investing in a sports club. Unless they have charitable status which I would doubt.

I honestly don't know (long while since I worked in Revenue) but thought there was some provision for writing it off against tax - but could be wrong.
18/03/2010, 10:22 AM
pineapple stu

UCD AFC is a registered charity. I know we announce that there's tax breaks for things like sponsorsing a table at the club dinner.
18/03/2010, 1:24 PM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by marinobohs

but Sporting Fingal have not breached any of the licencing criteria - I have never even heard it suggested that they did. I don't see how licencing can exclude one large benifactor as this would rule out most clubs (for example I doubt St Pats could have sustained losses in last few years but for one benefactor).

I'm not suggesting they breached licensing; just pointing out it's a flaw of the system. There have been a number of examples in recent seasons where a benefactor has pulled the plug and left a club in trouble mid season. Has anything been done to fill that gap in the licencing system?

Imo, if a club is so reliant on benefactor, there should be an upfront bond paid to the league, which can be released back to the club throughout the season. In that case, the worst case scenario is players, staff and club see out the season at least.
18/03/2010, 2:33 PM
GalwayRed

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lep

Im not gonna get into an argument of whether Fingal is a county or not. I live in County Fingal thats all that matters. If you dont think its a county then so be it.

Sorry to drag this up again but as someone from Swords are you trying to tell me I'm from County Fingal?
18/03/2010, 2:35 PM
BonnieShels

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lep

By no means do i feel hard done by :) I didnt expect any diffrent response from a shells fan to be honest. Where are you going with this millwall attitude ?
I think its sad that SOME so called fans of our league would love to see another league club fold and not succeed. The truth is and what is important Sporting Fingal are here and will be here for another while yet .

Ah come on man. I even said that being a Shels fan will automatically make me not like ye. That's a given. And long may a sustainable rivalry remain. ;)

The hard-done-by attitude is there to be seen. I've yet to see much positivity emanating from Fingal fans tbh. And if there's positivity out there then let's see it. :)

I just think that the wider community of LOI fans are tired of the negativity and we want to see this league finally strengthen. But yet again it seems that the annual crisis is imminent.
18/03/2010, 2:36 PM
BonnieShels

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalwayRed

Sorry to drag this up again but as someone from Swords are you trying to tell me I'm from County Fingal?

Administratively speaking... technically you are. But screw technicalities. Culturally you're a Dub and proud! :)
18/03/2010, 2:51 PM
SkStu

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalwayRed

Sorry to drag this up again but as someone from Swords are you trying to tell me I'm from County Fingal?

you Fingallions are so weird man.
18/03/2010, 2:54 PM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

you Fingallions are so weird man.

Fingwegians, surely?
18/03/2010, 2:59 PM
GalwayRed

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkStu

you Fingallions are so weird man.

The ignorance. Fingallians is spelt with an a:p
18/03/2010, 6:13 PM
higgins

It's perfectly acceptable for one man to pump money into a club but the worry here is that this guy is going to lose everything he has when NAMA come knocking.
How will you bridge the 15K per week gap after his assets are frozen?

Has he already given the 2010 money to Fingal?
If so that's fine but we'll have the same problem in 2011 or however long it takes for NAMA to act

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