Lack of initiative shown by League

So you're saying knock 7 clubs out of the existing league, exchange Leitrim for Rovers with the Sligo club. Advertise this, and hey presto people will start flocking to the games? You really, honestly believe that? Not to mention the poor people of Dublin city who's only choice would be to support Blanchardstown play in Phibsborough....

OK, even if I buy that. What happens when they get to the ground and the football is poor, and they can't have a dump as the loos are a disgrace? (and thats not a dig at Sligo, its the same everywhere). YOu mention Limerick in your above post. You're going to leave them alone I see. Do you think marketing would make that ground acceptable to punters?

Getting a bit silly here ,heres my take ,lets deal with two main probloms ,1 full time pro football has been a disaster for the clubs and the league 2 the league is run by people who dont have a clue and dont give a xxxx.pointless talking about anything else untill those two issues are addressed.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

The League is grand. The problem is with people who think they're bigger than the league (Ollie, Arkaga, the Gerrys). The league can find a nice little space for itself, and can definitely develop its infracture to the point where all clubs are solvent. But we'll never be a big league. The "Great Sporting irish public" simply don't want to know. If that means part time, so be it.

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well said that man. of course there is problems with the league but we must first fix our broken clubs then we can begin to have a sustantablle league. and then maybe we can grow to a level that is our real level and not one that certain people think we should be playing at

If the FAI gradually upgraded its regulations and the enforcement of its regulations year on year it would help things a lot.

Instead they seem to be scared to really go the whole hog on it so the incentive to act recklessly remains in place.

The FAI are ultimately to blame here. If they enforced the 65% of income salary cap then you wouldn't see certain clubs that have had well documented off pitch problems in the state they're in. Bohs had a near €30K a week wage bill a couple of seasons ago on average gates of 2000 a fortnight. Do the math.

Professional football is a no-go in this country, pure and simple.

If the FAI enforced all the rules, there wouldn't be many clubs). As I've said if Derry are kicked out, nobody's replacing them and that definitely makes the league a poorer place. The morons in charge of clubs know this. Catch 22 and all that

stop paying the players so damn much so!!!! you can be professional easily on anywhere between 450-600 euro a week if they want more let them see if they can get it abroad

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Originally Posted by Dodge

If the FAI enforced all the rules, there wouldn't be many clubs). As I've said if Derry are kicked out, nobody's replacing them and that definitely makes the league a poorer place. The morons in charge of clubs know this. Catch 22 and all that

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Yeah, so they need to grow a set and start properly punishing clubs that feck up completely even if their face fits in the league. In the long run everyone would benefit. Short term pain for long term gain.

At the moment the incentives to gamble are just too great and the punishments for financial insanity tend to be minimal at best.

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

Professional football is a no-go in this country, pure and simple.

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Why do you think that? Seriously ffs the conservatism on this forum is doing my head in.

Ireland... Developed Economy, Improved infrastructure, sports mad...of course professional football can work ffs.

It just needs time, money and energy which isn't coming from the Fai.

Something afesh will do the trick, proper marketing in place, strict criteria incl. the management of clubs.
Out with the joints like Salthill and Mervue, ridiculous having 3 clubs in Galway, and that is one of many reasons why the Fai arn't fit to do it.

Base clubs on geography and potential none of this history/sporting s***e..
If the Loi hasn't worked for 70 odd years its not going to work in the next 10, 20 or 30 years.

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

Base clubs on geography and potential none of this history/sporting s***e..
If the Loi hasn't worked for 70 odd years its not going to work in the next 10, 20 or 30 years.

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If the clubs are based on geography and potential, they will lose all credibility, the league have to be seen to be run on purely sporting grounds, or else the regulars will **** off, and the barstoolers still won't come. We need to build on the existing support base of the league, not alienate it.

The way to do this is to improve the facilities, nothing ridiculous, just clean toilets, fresh paint, unobstructed views and somewhere dry to sit, and then market the ****e out of it. I've been going to Hibs games this year. Our product is just as good as the SPL, and Hibs get 10,000 a week as one of two teams in a city little bigger than Cork.

Edit: Obviously this requires money, which nobody has, and therein lies the rub

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

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Ireland... Developed Economy, Improved infrastructure, sports mad....

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Wrong on all three counts.

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It just needs time, money and energy which isn't coming from the Fai.

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It isn't coming from them as they don't have it. And neither does anyone else. Where do you siggest the money comes from?

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Something afesh will do the trick, proper marketing in place, strict criteria incl. the management of clubs.

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Like club licensing?

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Out with the joints like Salthill and Mervue, ridiculous having 3 clubs in Galway, and that is one of many reasons why the Fai arn't fit to do it.

Base clubs on geography and potential none of this history/sporting s***e..

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So set a club in Leitrim (who don't want one) in favour of established clubs who want to progress? Are you going to force people to set a club up? Don't forget that geography and marketibility was a factor in the recent league restructure

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If the Loi hasn't worked for 70 odd years its not going to work in the next 10, 20 or 30 years.

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What do you define as worked?

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

Professional football is a no-go in this country, pure and simple.

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No it's not.

Paying money you can't afford for professional players is a no go in this country. Same as it is in every country.

But you could have professional players on sensible wages that could be supported by revenue. There is nothing inherently 'no go' about the concept of professional football in Ireland.

The standard would be lowe than currently - perhaps only for a while - but it would be more sustainable. But even the bloated English footballing system is showing early signs of developing a bit more fiscal realism, so as wages slowly decline elsewhere the competitive position of low-paying Irish cluhbs would improve.

The problem is idiot Directors insisiting on paying wages they can't afford as they MUST have success. But there's no reason why we couldn't have full-time players on wages that ARE affordable to their clubs.

Its the irish peoples fault for the leagues mess but its only football. there is way more important things and if wearing goggles in a pub brings them joy then thats fine.

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

If the Loi hasn't worked for 70 odd years its not going to work in the next 10, 20 or 30 years.

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You do realise that club football in Ireland worked perfectly fine for about 90 years, and that it's fall from popularity was far for ineviatble and doesn't have to be irreversible.....?

I love the notion that all that football in Ireland needs is a different wrapper - a county shirt, not a club one - and the promised land will be reached. The phrase 'rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic' was never more apt a description for fecking around the edges ratehr than tackling the 'cultural' and administrative issues that are the core of football's problem in Ireland.

For example - who in their right mind would entrust money to develop a stadium to the feckin' eejits who currently run Irish football clubs ??

Perhaps a common sense course should be run for all club owners prior to every season. Theres a huge lack of it going around at the moment.

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Originally Posted by joeSoap

Theoretically you could have a league in place regionally that already has grounds/infrastructures in place to go....

Dunleary/Rathdown: (UCD Bowl)
Fingal (Morton Stadium Tolka Park)
Blanchardstown (Dalymount not a million miles away)
Tallaght/Clondalkin (Tallaght Stadium)
Dundalk/Drogheda: (Oriel, United Park)
Cork (Turners X)
Limerick (Jackman)
Kerry League (Tralee)
Galway/Mayo (Terryland)
Sligo/Leitrim (Showgrounds)
Athlone/Longford/Monaghan (choice of 3 )
Donegal (Ballybofey)
Derry (Brandywell)
Waterford (RSC)
Wexford (Ferrycarrig)

That could make up a 15 team league spilit geographically that if marketed, and advertised correctly could make a conceiveable league. Plus because of the regional aspect of it, it could attract a following from people who want to support their county or region rather that a club, thereby attracting the GAA ish element.

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not one of the above teams (as you named them ) has any history/fan base. talk about throwing out the babay with the bathwater........

Unfortunately, I don't see full time football as viable in the LOI and think that all clubs will revert back to part time or at best some hybrid arrangement. I had hoped that an all Ireland League might be the catalyst for rebuilding the game here but the SETANTA Cup doesn't fill me with any confidence on that approach.

As said by previous posters it appears our "soccer loving public" are more interested in SKY Sports than Irish football.

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

none of this history/sporting s***e...

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You're right. All this sporting s***e is dragging down a perfectly good business opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

It isn't coming from them as they don't have it. And neither does anyone else. Where do you siggest the money comes from?

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Platinum One

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Originally Posted by Dodge

So set a club in Leitrim (who don't want one) in favour of established clubs who want to progress? Are you going to force people to set a club up? Don't forget that geography and marketibility was a factor in the recent league restructure

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I never said anything about about Leitrim, but having clubs like Salthill and Mervue, come on.

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

Platinum One

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Read that document again. Platinum were not investing one cent in Irish football. In fact they were looking to take money out, through their "profit share"

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Read that document again. Platinum were not investing one cent in Irish football. In fact they were looking to take money out, through their "profit share"

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In fairness, "profit share" implies a profit is being made, which is more than you could say for the league at the moment!

Except, every penny the fai would make would go back into football at some level

With p1, their shareholders get it

Yes but at least they're making more money available for the top level game.

Also, it would lift a burden off the Fai's shoulders so with Lansdowne coming they could invest more into the other levels of football.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Except, every penny the fai would make would go back into football at some level

With p1, their shareholders get it

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Which would be great if the league under the FAI were making a profit.

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

Yes but at least they're making more money available for the top level game.

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WHo? pltinum? No they're not. Not one single cent. Seriously, have you not read anything bar the opening two/three paragraphs

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

Which would be great if the league under the FAI were making a profit.

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i doubt that the LOI will ever do well under the FAI for the smple reason that they dont care about it. Apart from euro games (and the odd big friendly) you wont see the likes of Dealney gracing any LOI clubs more than once twice a season. the FAI is there to develop the International set up and that is its primary (and only ?) focus, thus the fudge doled out in respect of the "favoured" clubs and the make it up as you go along application of rules.

Not sure if P1 is any sort of solution but it is beyond doubt that the LOI need an outside, independent management body if it is to move forward.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

WHo? pltinum? No they're not. Not one single cent. Seriously, have you not read anything bar the opening two/three paragraphs

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Dodge - the idea is that Platinum would make Irish football worth more.

At the moment there is no profit in the game. The only way Platinum could generate one for themselves would be to make the game more attractive etc etc. They don't make a profit unless the game does.

I see nothing wrong with rewarding any organisation who could get Irish football of it's knees and attract more finance and punters into it. It's just like consultancy, only this time the results have to be delivered before the fees get paid.

In an ideal world the FAI would do this and keep every cent in the game. But they've shown that they have neither the expertise, capacity nor desire to do this. So rather than cling to a socialist principle towards football administration, I'd rather see ANYONE have a stab at sorting a game out at this stage, so long as they had some credibility behind them.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Dodge - the idea is that Platinum would make Irish football worth more.

At the moment there is no profit in the game. The only way Platinum could generate one for themselves would be to make the game more attractive etc etc. They don't make a profit unless the game does.

I see nothing wrong with rewarding any organisation who could get Irish football of it's knees and attract more finance and punters into it. It's just like consultancy, only this time the results have to be delivered before the fees get paid.

In an ideal world the FAI would do this and keep every cent in the game. But they've shown that they have neither the expertise, capacity nor desire to do this. So rather than cling to a socialist principle towards football administration, I'd rather see ANYONE have a stab at sorting a game out at this stage, so long as they had some credibility behind them.

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in the words of yosser huges 'giz a job i can do that'
on a serious note p1 never offered anything other that a vague aspiration. and speaking from a small clubs perpective we would never trust these peopleover the fai with our clubs future.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Dodge - the idea is that Platinum would make Irish football worth more

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I relise that steve, but my point is that their proposals are not realistic. Even at that. I understand from their proposals that their "fees" would be taken out before any clubs were paid their "profits"

At the moment the only realistic league admin is the current set up. Until something more credible comes along, all this talk is redundant.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

In an ideal world the FAI would do this and keep every cent in the game. But they've shown that they have neither the expertise, capacity nor desire to do this. So rather than cling to a socialist principle towards football administration, I'd rather see ANYONE have a stab at sorting a game out at this stage, so long as they had some credibility behind them.

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We've had a stab at a 10 team league, summer football, so why not take a complete punt on something else that's unrealistic and not founded on anything concrete - at least we'd be doing something.

Because we know the FAI "have to" have a league.

When p1 pull out when the money doesn't come rolling in, its over

Why do you think the money won't come rolling in?

Seriously the pessism, think on the bright side for once.

Why should the money suddenly come rolling in where it never has before, ever?

Thinking on the bright side won't actually do anything.

Also, with my mod hat, you were already warned about the link in your sig. Change it, FFS.

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

Why do you think the money won't come rolling in?

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History, current affairs and a knowledge of the game in Ireland

If p1 produce multi year contracts signed with major companies, I'll look at their proposals again.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Why should the money suddenly come rolling in where it never has before, ever?

Thinking on the bright side won't actually do anything.

Also, with my mod hat, you were already warned about the link in your sig. Change it, FFS.

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I did change it??

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

I did change it??

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*sigh*

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Originally Posted by Riddickcule

Why do you think that? Seriously ffs the conservatism on this forum is doing my head in.

Ireland... Developed Economy, Improved infrastructure, sports mad...of course professional football can work ffs.

It just needs time, money and energy which isn't coming from the Fai.

Something afesh will do the trick, proper marketing in place, strict criteria incl. the management of clubs.
Out with the joints like Salthill and Mervue, ridiculous having 3 clubs in Galway, and that is one of many reasons why the Fai arn't fit to do it.

Base clubs on geography and potential none of this history/sporting s***e..
If the Loi hasn't worked for 70 odd years its not going to work in the next 10, 20 or 30 years.

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Bad start to a post IMHO

feck what was in his sig? :)

the gaa would be screwed without the players being amature and the goverment grants... stay away from gaa models its stupid to even consider such a thing a possibility

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Originally Posted by Acornvilla

feck what was in his sig? :)

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Was it not something about a particular club and intravenous opiate based narcotics?