Simon Cox (F Western Sydney Wanderers b.1987)

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Originally Posted by irishultra

never heard of him, dont think he will make the team.

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If you have never heard of him, and therefore I assume never seen him play or have any knowledge of his ability, how can you possibly deduce he will not make the team?

Check him out he has a decent record (Highest scorer in English Leagues last season with Swindon), scored some exceptional goals and clearly does want to play for us. Unless you are advocating a total ban on 2nd G players, I suggest you allow a few relevant facts to guideyour judgement on individual cases.

This goal in particular is brilliant

great goal....thanks joe

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

In fairness if he uses the word "nan" to describe his granny he cant be that irish.

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Is that some kind of non-obvious joke?

So even though i was born and raised in Galway (with 100% Irish blood) because i was raised calling my Granny my ''Nanny'' i ain't Irish?

You call your mother/father/granny by whatever name you hear around the house :rolleyes:

gone off him already!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...ello-call.html

LOL. look after one generation its stupid to keep up a past identity especially in europe. its ok in new world countries because those countries are built on immigrants but its laughable for people in scotland or england to consider themselves irish after 3 or 4 generations.

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Originally Posted by RiffRaff

gone off him already!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...ello-call.html

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Hmmmm was just about to post that he starts for WBA tonight, which is on sky, but not so bothered now.

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Originally Posted by RiffRaff

gone off him already!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...ello-call.html

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So basically we are a back up for him. Good ****ing riddance.

thats not much different to what Clinton Morrison said back in the day so doesnt bother me as long as he performs if he puts on the green

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

thats not much different to what Clinton Morrison said back in the day so doesnt bother me as long as he performs if he puts on the green

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But playing International is different... your heart has to be in it, there's no massive pay check at the end of the week. For a country like us that will always lack the talent over the bigger countries we need lads who are willing to put their bodies on the line and push themselves that bit further.

That's not to say that only truly Irish people can do that, some wouldn't, while some lads with no connection can naturally push themselves

But i personally think if you take 10 lads frm both sides, the man with the passion for the cause will push himself that little bit more.

I just don't understand how anyone who truly feels they're Irish could ever even consider the notion of playing for England given our countries long and difficult past. If the taught even crosses their minds then they have no true passion for the land, this isn't club football this is supposed to be something more

But all said and done having only one grandparent he is more English then Irish, someone like Rooney gets to me though, having come from such a strong Irish area and family

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Originally Posted by RiffRaff

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...ello-call.html

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Since when did anyone believe anything written in The Sun? I'm willing to wait and see what the guy has to say himself rather than rely on that rag.

Some craic that he thinks he is a potential England international. He'd be a backup for us at best. What a muppet

edit: If said article is factual, it is the Sun after all I suppose

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Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

But playing International is different... your heart has to be in it, there's no massive pay check at the end of the week. For a country like us that will always lack the talent over the bigger countries we need lads who are willing to put their bodies on the line and push themselves that bit further.

That's not to say that only truly Irish people can do that, some wouldn't, while some lads with no connection can naturally push themselves

But i personally think if you take 10 lads frm both sides, the man with the passion for the cause will push himself that little bit more.

I just don't understand how anyone who truly feels they're Irish could ever even consider the notion of playing for England given our countries long and difficult past. If the taught even crosses their minds then they have no true passion for the land, this isn't club football this is supposed to be something more

But all said and done having only one grandparent he is more English then Irish, someone like Rooney gets to me though, having come from such a strong Irish area and family

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But there are plenty of example of lads who considered themselves english that gave everything for us. Townsend would be my favorite example. I remember him telling a story about watching Ireland beat England in euro 88 while he was on hols and being gutted after the match watching the irish lads in the pub celebrating. But yet when he played for us I dont think anyone could have doubted his commitment on the pitch and he was a great captain for a time

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Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

But playing International is different... your heart has to be in it, there's no massive pay check at the end of the week. For a country like us that will always lack the talent over the bigger countries we need lads who are willing to put their bodies on the line and push themselves that bit further.

That's not to say that only truly Irish people can do that, some wouldn't, while some lads with no connection can naturally push themselves

But i personally think if you take 10 lads frm both sides, the man with the passion for the cause will push himself that little bit more.

I just don't understand how anyone who truly feels they're Irish could ever even consider the notion of playing for England given our countries long and difficult past. If the taught even crosses their minds then they have no true passion for the land, this isn't club football this is supposed to be something more

But all said and done having only one grandparent he is more English then Irish, someone like Rooney gets to me though, having come from such a strong Irish area and family

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ok your line of thinking causes division, rooney is from an english area with an english family. the guy has like an english tattoo. not everyone in england with irish ancestry feels a connection and a lot of people have other roots as well. the guy has an english accent fgs.

i agree about the country thing tho, even tho im not so patriotic and dont really care but when it comes to football im a nationalist.

Wouldnt believe ANYTHING i read in the sun!

why would they make up a story about some nobody?

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Originally Posted by yapster

Rooney is English,his parents are English and supported England as a kid. Just because he has an Irish name qualifies him to play for Ireland??? If so they what about Irish born players with Anglo names,Scottish names,European names.African names and so on...

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Wayne's brother John has said he wants to play for Ireland, but hasn't been called into any squads yet, so if he qualifies, then Wayne also qualified.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

why would they make up a story about some nobody?

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No idea, though if you believed everything you read in the papers, you would eat everything you see

i think its because his brother is a talentless hack might be the reason for that.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

But there are plenty of example of lads who considered themselves english that gave everything for us. Townsend would be my favorite example.

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I never disagreed with that, i even said you can't say conclusively that just because some ones Irish they would give it their all, same as someone with no connection(some people can give it their all no matter who they play for). But i said if you took 10 from each side you would more the likely end up having more passion and commitment from the lads with a connection.

Also going back to the Charlton years, we had more talent then, the starting 11 mostly consisted of players who played for big teams, when your lacking talent(which we are now) you need work ethic and you'll get more of that from lads who WANT to be there

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Originally Posted by irishultra

ok your line of thinking causes division, rooney is from an english area with an english family. the guy has like an english tattoo. not everyone in england with irish ancestry feels a connection and a lot of people have other roots as well. the guy has an english accent fgs.

i agree about the country thing tho, even tho im not so patriotic and dont really care but when it comes to football im a nationalist.

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This is an Irish part of town. All the older people, like Patricia Fitzsimons, were moved here in the slum clearances of the late1940s and 1950s. They, like thousands of Irish before them, lived in Scotty Road, as they call it. Scotty is down by the docks, the first port of call for desperate Irish emigrants who flooded Liverpool for over 100 years after the Famine.

Like its black community, Liverpool hosts the oldest Irish community in Britain and Irish immigrants and their descendents have been central to the development of the city. As Liverpool’s economic strength declined, so too did new arrivals from Ireland. Yet, even today, when only 10% of the population of England is Catholic, 60% of Croxteth’s children are baptised Catholic. They are Irish, Catholic, Evertonians and proud of it.

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http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/0...-englands-gain

When i mentioned Rooney i was thinking of that article, claims he comes from a very Irish area of Liverpool.
Seems he comes from a fairly Irish backround tbh, a predominantly Irish immigrant area with both sides of the family having Irish connections.

And I'm not denying he sees himself as English, i was saying in the general scheme of the granny rule, he would have seemed a prime candidate to want to play for us. As opposed to someone like Cox with just one grandparent and possibly an upbringing in some normal English area

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Originally Posted by yapster

Rooney is English,his parents are English and supported England as a kid. Just because he has an Irish name qualifies him to play for Ireland??? If so they what about Irish born players with Anglo names,Scottish names,European names.African names and so on...

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...and to you sir....... what's the point?, you've shown yourself up again, in trying to say Rooney has no connection what so ever, you haven't a clue about any subject :rolleyes:

fair enough

Did anyone really think that Ireland was his first choice? If it was he'd have been in the underage squads. What he's saying is very foolish when he seems to be on the brink of an Ireland call-up though. :confused:

Lads, are we not getting a bit hot under the collar about nothing here?

Here are his quotes from the Sun article

"One of the Ireland scouts told me he was going to pass on my number to their No 2 Liam Brady.

"But if the goals and performances keep coming and the England manager ever phones, I can only say my Italian is rubbish!

"I'd be searching for the right words."

A fairly inoffensive response to a lazy Sun hacks leading question Id say.

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Originally Posted by gilberto_eire

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2007/0...-englands-gain

When i mentioned Rooney i was thinking of that article, claims he comes from a very Irish area of Liverpool.
Seems he comes from a fairly Irish backround tbh, a predominantly Irish immigrant area with both sides of the family having Irish connections.

And I'm not denying he sees himself as English, i was saying in the general scheme of the granny rule, he would have seemed a prime candidate to want to play for us. As opposed to someone like Cox with just one grandparent and possibly an upbringing in some normal English area



...and to you sir....... what's the point?, you've shown yourself up again, in trying to say Rooney has no connection what so ever, you haven't a clue about any subject :rolleyes:

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ye sorry i get you, my point was stupid but seriously i think very few english people of irish descent would select ireland with the talent rooney had at that age. just i was thinking compare winning the world cup with ireland and england. if you win world cup with england, you then can revel in that the following season amongst the fans, the buzz would be great, compare that to if ireland won, the the players would just disperse to their british clubs after. kinda anti-climax.

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Originally Posted by yapster

Did I not say he had an Irish name? Yeah he may possibly have an Irish great-grandparent or grandparent but that does not make him Irish ffs:rolleyes:

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In football terms, it does allow him to represent Ireland though, which is all that really matters.

What, in your opinion, are the pre-requisites for making someone Irish?

yeah it be like saying your french because you have a name like fitzgearld.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

but seriously i think very few english people of irish descent would select ireland with the talent rooney had at that age. just i was thinking compare winning the world cup with ireland and england.

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For someone of Irish decent to win just one cap for Ireland would mean more than winning the World Cup with England, if that person considers themselves Irish (In my opinion at least). Its obvious Wayne didnt really have that feeling of Irishness or desire to play for Ireland, no issue at all with that in my book.

It would be interesting to know why his brother has declared his interest in Ireland. Is it because he is Irish and if so I wonder why Wayne didnt have the same feelings or is it simply because he is crap and thougt what the hell Ill try them out. Either way I dont suppose he'll be getting capped anytime soon;)

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Originally Posted by irishultra

just i was thinking compare winning the world cup with ireland and england. if you win world cup with england, you then can revel in that the following season amongst the fans, the buzz would be great, compare that to if ireland won, the the players would just disperse to their british clubs after. kinda anti-climax.

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Do you honestly think that any player is concerned about the fans' reaction the next season when they go into a World Cup? What a shallow view you have of the world? As professionals I am sure that 90% of footballers would be focused on the achievment of winning the tournament - not worrying about the "buzz" with the fans.

I think as long as the player is eligible for Ireland and have a genuine desire to play for Ireland, rather than just for the purposes of furthering their career, then I have no problem with the granny rule. Can I ask, how many of us didnt celebrate St Ledgers goal against Italy with all our heart because he wasnt Irish born?? None I would say. Same would apply to Houghtons goals etc.

I wouldnt necessarily rule out a lad because he may have had a first preference for their country of birth. Both my parents are from Ireland, one from cork, one leitrim. So i cant really relate but for example if there ever had been an opportunity for me to play for leitrim I wouldve snapped at it, that doesnt mean I wouldnt have liked to play for Cork, but I certainly would give my all for leitrim.

he means football ;0)

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Originally Posted by yapster

Leitrim is not a foreign country....

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jesus it was pretty obvious what he ment:rolleyes: gaaaaaaaah and those rivalries can be much bigger than those between us and the englis..
your lack of knowledge about irishness is a disgrace!

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Originally Posted by yapster

Being born on the Island and 2nd generation Irish.

I knowit allows him to represent Ireland under the rules but the point is he is not Irish.

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The Granny Rule is there to be used, and we should use it. Gary Cahill, Jamie O'Hara, Kevin Nolan, Simon Cox, Gary O'Neil, Mark Noble etc. are all players we could do with. Take Germany for example. They have Podolski, Trochowski & Klose who are Polish, Boateng and Ozil who could easily have played for Ghana and Turkey and they also have Cacau who is Brazilian. Holland have been using Surinam born players for years and France have used many African born players. Portugal have Deco, Pepe, Liedson who are Brazilian & defender Rolando is from Cape Verde, even Italy have their Argentinian Mauro Camoranesi...anyway I think I've made my point. Paul McShane or Gary Cahill? Liam Miller or Kevin Nolan? I know who I'd choose every time.

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Originally Posted by TrapAPony

The Granny Rule is there to be used, and we should use it. Gary Cahill, Jamie O'Hara, Kevin Nolan, Simon Cox, Gary O'Neil, Mark Noble etc. are all players we could do with. Take Germany for example. They have Podolski, Trochowski & Klose who are Polish, Boateng and Ozil who could easily have played for Ghana and Turkey and they also have Cacau who is Brazilian. Holland have been using Surinam born players for years and France have used many African born players, Portugal have Deco, Ricardo Carvalho, Pepe, Liedson who are Brazilian & defender Rolando is from Cape Verde. Paul McShane or Gary Cahill? Liam Miller or Kevin Nolan? I know who I'd choose every time.

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you forgot kevin kuranyi for germany and eduardo for croatia :)
just two random players poped into my head :)

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Originally Posted by Acornvilla

you forgot kevin kuranyi for germany and eduardo for croatia :)
just two random players poped into my head :)

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Deco for Portugal doesnt even have Portugese family, just playing for them from the residency rule

Now that I think of it, even the great Eusebio was african playing for Portugal.Other countries have been making use of this rule long before us so we would be stupid not to with the amount of Irish that have left the country over the years

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Originally Posted by irishultra

ye sorry i get you, my point was stupid but seriously i think very few english people of irish descent would select ireland with the talent rooney had at that age. just i was thinking compare winning the world cup with ireland and england. if you win world cup with england, you then can revel in that the following season amongst the fans, the buzz would be great, compare that to if ireland won, the the players would just disperse to their british clubs after. kinda anti-climax.

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getting a little ahead of yourself there I think....2014 World Cup headline: Ireland win World Cup - Lawrence regrets Ireland opt due to lack of buzz from fans in Stoke
:)

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Originally Posted by TrapAPony

The Granny Rule is there to be used, and we should use it. Gary Cahill, Jamie O'Hara, Kevin Nolan, Simon Cox, Gary O'Neil, Mark Noble etc. are all players we could do with. Take Germany for example. They have Podolski, Trochowski & Klose who are Polish, Boateng and Ozil who could easily have played for Ghana and Turkey and they also have Cacau who is Brazilian. Holland have been using Surinam born players for years and France have used many African born players. Portugal have Deco, Ricardo Carvalho, Pepe, Liedson who are Brazilian & defender Rolando is from Cape Verde, even Italy have their Argentinian Mauro Camoranesi...anyway I think I've made my point. Paul McShane or Gary Cahill? Liam Miller or Kevin Nolan? I know who I'd choose every time.

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Originally Posted by yapster

I think it's sad that Ireland cannot produce enough players of quality to have a genuine Irish side and have to rely on foreign to give them a chance of success on the field..

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I think it's sad that Germany cannot produce enough players of quality to have a genuine German side and have to rely on foreign to give them a chance of success on the field.
I think it's sad that France cannot produce enough players of quality to have a genuine French side and have to rely on foreign to give them a chance of success on the field.
I think it's sad that Holland cannot produce enough players of quality to have a genuine Dutch side and have to rely on foreign to give them a chance of success on the field.
I think it's sad that Portugal cannot produce enough players of quality to have a genuine Portugese side and have to rely on foreign to give them a chance of success on the field.

Now, im speaking your language there so maybe you will acknowledge and "get" the point that TrapAPony made.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

I think it's sad that Germany cannot produce enough players of quality to have a genuine German side and have to rely on foreign to give them a chance of success on the field.
I think it's sad that France cannot produce enough players of quality to have a genuine French side and have to rely on foreign to give them a chance of success on the field.
I think it's sad that Holland cannot produce enough players of quality to have a genuine Dutch side and have to rely on foreign to give them a chance of success on the field.
I think it's sad that Portugal cannot produce enough players of quality to have a genuine Portugese side and have to rely on foreign to give them a chance of success on the field.

Now, im speaking your language there so maybe you will acknowledge and "get" the point that TrapAPony made.

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Klose is more like Darren Gibson than Ray Houghton. Where Klose is from it used to be a German territory. Podolski grew up in Germany.

I can't think of any Dutch players who are foreign.

Portugal have Deco and that is it.

It can't be denied that Ireland have taken the granny rule thing and ran with it.

who is denying it IU?

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Originally Posted by irishultra

Where Klose is from it used to be a German territory. Podolski grew up in Germany.

I can't think of any Dutch players who are foreign.

Portugal have Deco and that is it.

It can't be denied that Ireland have taken the granny rule thing and ran with it.

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Used to be German territory - ffs, in that case there is a fair chunk of western Europe that would meet this description!

Below is a list of foreign born players who were named in their national squads for Euro 2008. Now can we please stop this crap.....

Croatia
Josip Šimunić - Australia
Robert Kovač - Germany
Niko Kovač - Germany
Ivan Klasnić - Germany
Ivan Rakitić - Switzerland
Vedran Ćorluka - Yugoslavia (Bos-Herz)
Mladen Petrić - Yugoslavia (Bos-Herz)

France
Jean-Alain Boumsong - Cameroon
Florent Malouda - French Guiana [1]
Lilian Thuram - Guadeloupe [1]
Steve Mandanda - Zaire (DR Congo)
Claude Makélélé - Zaire (DR Congo)
Patrice Evra - Senegal
Patrick Vieira - Senegal

Germany
Kevin Kurányi - Brazil
Miroslav Klose - Poland
Piotr Trochowski - Poland
Lukas Podolski - Poland
Oliver Neuville - Switzerland

Portugal
Pepe - Brazil
Deco - Brazil
Nani - Cape Verde
José Bosingwa - Zaire (DR Congo)
Petit - France

Switzerland
Gelson Fernandes - Cape Verde
Johan Vonlanthen - Colombia
Johan Djourou - Cote d'Ivoire
Valon Behrami - Yugoslavia (Kosovo)
Eldin Jakupović - Yugoslavia (Bos-Herz)

Turkey
Mehmet Aurélio - Brazil
Colin Kazim-Richards - England
Mevlüt Erdinç - France
Hakan Balta - Germany
Hamit Altintop - Germany

Austria
Ronald Gërçaliu - Albania
Ivica Vastić - Yugoslavia (Croatia)
Martin Harnik - Germany
György Garics - Hungary

Italy
Mauro Camoranesi - Argentina
Simone Perrotta - England

Spain
Marcos Senna - Brazil

Greece
Loukas Vyntra - Czech Republic

Poland
Roger Guerreiro - Brazil

Sweden
Tobias Linderoth - France

Czech Republic
NONE

Netherlands
NONE

Romania
NONE

Russia
NONE

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Originally Posted by yapster

Irelands abuse of this crazy rule is disgraceful and an insult to genuine Irish supporters. Charltons teams at times had 7 or 8 foreign players on the pitch in some games.

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I'd like to think I'm a "genuine Irish supporter" as you put it - haven't missed a game in Dublin since 1983 and plenty of away trips to go along with that. I can assure you that I am not one bit insulted by this. I am born and bred in Dublin but have stood proudly alongside 2nd and 3rd generation Irish supporters on the terraces as well as supporting them on the pitch.

You've been on this site for a couple of months now spouting your purity nonsense yet you have described yourself as Irish-American. I think we'd all be very interested to know how you can describe yourself as Irish and American while holding your views that many of these players are not Irish.