Fenlon for Dundee United?

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Originally Posted by LeixlipRed

I love how Derry fans and Shels fans to a certain extent can blame Fenlon for contractual/wages/monetary issues at their clubs. It's Fenlon's fault we didn't pay tax, Fenlon's fault we gave these players stupid contracts. Fenlon's fault I needed to go to a loan shark for christmas. Get over it lads.

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What Fenlon did at derry was sign a load of useless muppets,

on stupid money (yes the board should never have let him pay the wages out, but would have been less of an issue if any of them had seen a football before, never mind kick one before),
we were then stuck with these so called players on long term contracts who were no use to any club trying to compete in the premier when he ran back to Dublin crying.

That was not his habit at shels or Bohs. In general he signed fairly decent \ the better \ best players around the league with the odd exception.

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Originally Posted by BYCTWD

Thats not hard to explain. Its easy to attract players to Dublin because its a vibrant, cosmopolotan European capital. Its much harder to attract players to Derry becasue its a bombed out hovel.

Can't blame Fenlon because he had to pay a fortune to get anyone to move to Derry.

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Wow, you're insight is amazing. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by BYCTWD

He was a success at Dublins second and third biggest clubs and a failure in a small provincial town. Thats indisputible.

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Are you actually saying pats are the biggest team from Dublin:eek: granted after Bohs and shels they won more than the other Dublin clubs, UCD,fingal but come on now don't be stupid.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

Just before Christmas the FAI bean counters published the salary levels for the 2008 season (perhaps someone has a link) this showed that Bohs had the FOURTH yes, FOURTH highest wage bill in the Premier Division - after Drogs, Pats & Cork (leaving aside Derrys underestimation of wages) - result, Bohs won the League by 19 points and an FAI Cup. Not my idea of "huge budgetry advantage" but hey, lets not worry about a little thing like facts :rolleyes:

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Did those wage figures for Bohs cover only footballing wages, or certain players rather passive 'additional' roles for the club, such as barmen, groundskeepers, youth trainers, window cleaners, fluffers etc....?

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Originally Posted by Quadruple1928

Are you actually saying pats are the biggest team from Dublin:eek: granted after Bohs and shels they won more than the other Dublin clubs, UCD,fingal but come on now don't be stupid.

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epic lawlz. :D

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Originally Posted by BYCTWD

He was a success at Dublins second and third biggest clubs and a failure in a small provincial town. Thats indisputible.

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Whereas Dundee is...

While Comical Gerry is giving interviews to extratime.ie saying he expects Fenlon to stay, it now seems a deal has been reached with Fenlon and he is to be confirmed as Dundee Utd's boss in the morning. I'm looking forward to Gerry trying to convince everyone he got the €280,000 compo for Fenlon too :D

If Nutsy is heading over to Scotland, it's a real shame he can't get his hands on some good, cheap, free agent players that he has a good relationship wi.......oh.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

While Comical Gerry is giving interviews to extratime.ie saying he expects Fenlon to stay, it now seems a deal has been reached with Fenlon and he is to be confirmed as Dundee Utd's boss in the morning. I'm looking forward to Gerry trying to convince everyone he got the €280,000 compo for Fenlon too :D

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reports on BBC that the figure we're looking for is stg350k. I doubt its that much myself.

I appreciate your just taking a cheap shot and all Jicked but do you not think its a good thing for the league in general that Bohs will take a stand on this and get that message out there (in some form) that clubs looking for talent (be it managers or players) from Ireland for nothing or next to nothing can think again.

Of course it helps that Pat is under contract and we are in a position to do so. But ive always said it is something that all the clubs in the League desperately need to improve on.

He's on his way back to Dublin too by the sounds of things with no contract signed.

I think he will go though.

Taking a stand is one thing, but expecting them to pay Bohemians the same as what the SFA paid for an international manager is ridiculous. Besides, yet again you can't take anything you hear from the Bohemian board at face value as

"jim spence on radio scotland saying compo now to be sorted and it wont be nearly as high as quoted due to fenlons contract not quite being what it seemed."

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Taking a stand is one thing, but expecting them to pay Bohemians the same as what the SFA paid for an international manager is ridiculous.

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its a starting point - if you have ever been involved in negotiations at a professional level, you would know that strategically you go in at your top line.

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"jim spence on radio scotland saying compo now to be sorted and it wont be nearly as high as quoted due to fenlons contract not quite being what it seemed."

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Just DU playing the same game as Bohs and pandering to their fans a bit if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Taking a stand is one thing, but expecting them to pay Bohemians the same as what the SFA paid for an international manager is ridiculous. Besides, yet again you can't take anything you hear from the Bohemian board at face value as

"jim spence on radio scotland saying compo now to be sorted and it wont be nearly as high as quoted due to fenlons contract not quite being what it seemed."

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Iintriguing....

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Originally Posted by SkStu

its a starting point - if you have ever been involved in negotiations at a professional level, you would know that strategically you go in at your top line.

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It seems to come from Homer Simpson's school of negotiating: http://download.lardlad.com/sounds/season13/blame5.mp3

I'd wonder how professional it is to begin negotiations with a ridiculous figure that is a laughing stock, rather than begin focussing on what's an achievable realistic goal.

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Just DU playing the same game as Bohs and pandering to their fans a bit if you ask me.

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With the way Bohs has been run in recent seasons I'd be more inclined to believe Dundee Utd rather than Gerry Conway who hasn't really had much of a clue thus far in this episode. Its been a bit of shambles, with a few untruths knocking around, like an awful lot thats come out of Dalyer recently.

For what its worth there was a post on the srfcultrasforum earlier today from a user who seems fairly clued up, setting out the details of what Fenlon was busy negotiating (deal was agreed in principle, Fenlon wanted a 3 and half year deal, DU wanted 2 and a half, though a compromise was expected) when Conway was claiming to know nothing of the deal. He then mentions how Fenlon is owed back money and bonuses and that as such asking for €280k is absolutely ridiculous.

Now obviously that can be dismissed as mere rumour, but the Rovers forum has had a lot of leaks from Dalyer that have later proved true, generally speaking the 'rumours' on there seem to come from people relatively in the know once you filter out the junk written by 15 year olds.
Then there's also the fact that Fenlon still plays 'seniors' football with a Rovers fans team, so presumably has a lot of friends/contacts. Hardly beyond belief that a friend of a friend would hear something...
Going by that and just how specific that post was (if you read it it seemed pretty particular) that may be the background behind DU announcing hours later on radio that there was something amiss with the Bohs/Fenlon contract.

congrats on being so well connected Jicked. I was just presenting what i thought was a possibility based on what i know. You have heard or read different (though its all really rumour at the end of the day). I have no doubt there is a possibility that Bohs have screwed up. It wouldnt be the first time. Most reasonable Bohs fans would acknowledge that. We'll see.

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I'd wonder how professional it is to begin negotiations with a ridiculous figure that is a laughing stock, rather than begin focussing on what's an achievable realistic goal.

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i do it for a living and, trust me, if i went in to a meeting with figures that were "achievable and realistic" i'd be laughed out of the room and fired afterwards.

If you went into the boardroom at Dalymount with figures that were realistic and achievable you certainly would be laughed out and fired:D

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Originally Posted by RoversHead

If you went into the boardroom at Dalymount with figures that were realistic and achievable you certainly would be laughed out and fired:D

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http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1235/...5022d04a8e.jpg

he's here all week folks!

Very short piece from BBC Scotland tonight

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/scotland/8444591.stm

British press reporting it as a done deal with compo to be sorted out tomorrow
http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/home...ats-magic.html
Thats Bohs pre-season buggered :)

Also from the same article

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But DundeeUnited hope to get him for NOTHING amid talk of Fenlon being owed bonuses from cash-strapped Bohs.

Fenlon - the second most successful manager in Irish football history - informed the Bohemians board last night that he was accepting the United post.

It's thought he may simply write off any debts to make a clean break.

If a quick release agreement is struck he'll formally become United's new boss by the weekend.

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Non-payment of bonuses. Do any of the SCP brains know if that would affect Bohs moving forward with licencing next week?

Interesting. Hope he does well. How well would Craig Levein know him to give him a "glowing recommendation"?. Suppose he may have met him a few times over the years at games etc but they wouldn't have worked together?. Sean Dillon will be pleased I'd say, the only player who'd know Fenlon well.

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The club apparently believed they would get their man for nothing or next to it as journalists in Scotland were told Fenlon would be free to walk away from his current position on the basis that delays in paying him some money owed to him amounted to a breach of contract.

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This is disputed by Bohemians officials who maintain verbal agreements had been reached with regard to a schedule for any payments due

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http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...261820790.html

That old adage about verbal agreements not being worth the paper they're written on springs to mind. Precedent suggests Fenlon will be able to go for nothing if he pushes it. A likely compromise would seem to be him writing off what he's owed and Dundee Utd paying it to him.

I can't help but laugh at this. This league truly is a complete shambles.

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Originally Posted by Longfordian

That old adage about verbal agreements not being worth the paper they're written on springs to mind. Precedent suggests Fenlon will be able to go for nothing if he pushes it. A likely compromise would seem to be him writing off what he's owed and Dundee Utd paying it to him.

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Except of course when Albion obtain a verbal agreement to buy part of the ground...

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Originally Posted by LeixlipRed

I can't help but laugh at this. This league truly is a complete shambles.

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You're only realizing that now? :eek:

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Originally Posted by de bowez

Except of course when Albion obtain a verbal agreement to buy part of the ground...

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I've a feeling the signficant part of that deal was the €1m or so Albion handed over. In a somewhat similar situation Stephen Paisley was allowed leave us for nothing and go to Pats. We had a "verbal agreement" with him regarding a schedule of payments of money owed too. It went to a tribunal, he said he didn't really agree to anything just didn't want to make waves so didn't protest. He won his case. You're in big trouble in terms of protecting your rights if you don't pay what's owed when it's owed or at least get an agreement in writing.

bye bye. seriously i dont care about him. get someone good in. what a joke it is though that it is deemed a step up for the title winning manager of a club to be going to some no hoper club in a country the same size as the one he just left. irish football is a joke.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

bye bye. seriously i dont care about him. get someone good in. what a joke it is though that it is deemed a step up for the title winning manager of a club to be going to some no hoper club in a country the same size as the one he just left. irish football is a joke.

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Ha ha, throwing your rattle out of the pram :D What a joker this guy is :D

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Originally Posted by blue til i die

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...261820790.html

This is disputed by Bohemians officials who maintain verbal agreements had been reached with regard to a schedule for any payments due.

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Isn't this a breach of licensing if true? Monies owed either had to be paid or a written agreement in place so time ago according to my understanding.

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Originally Posted by De Town

You're only realizing that now? :eek:

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No, I just keeping getting bangs on the head and forgetting.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...td/8440296.stm

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08:45 GMT, Thursday, 7 January 2010


Dundee United could land Bohemians manager Pat Fenlon without paying compensation as he is owed money by the Dublin club.
Fenlon has agreed a contract in principle with the Scottish Premier League club after talks on Wednesday.

And he has told the League of Ireland club he is taking the job.

Bohemians are demanding compensation of around £250,000 for the 40-year-old, but he could be in the United dugout on Saturday and cost them nothing.


Fenlon, previously a Celtic scout in Ireland, might forego money due him by the Dublin club to cover any potential fee for compensation.

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Originally Posted by de bowez

Except of course when Albion obtain a verbal agreement to buy part of the ground...

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I think that was covered by estoppel - in other words, there was no written agreement, but Bohs and Albion both acted in accordance with one (i.e. Albion paid money and Bohs accepted it).

Does Bohs' transfer embargo mean they can't sign any manager currently employed? Doolin seems the obvious replacement candidate unless they promote from within.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Isn't this a breach of licensing if true? Monies owed either had to be paid or a written agreement in place so time ago according to my understanding.

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Where did you get written agreement from?


It may in his contract that if another club that is over €5m in reported debt wishes to speak with him they can. (Dundee United £8m iin reported debt).

There's alot of Tennis Reportage going on at the moment, because both clubs havn't talked with each other. The Malone chap in The Irish Times has an accurate view on the situation.

Further note on Contracts. Performance is a big part of that and if it's shown every party was doing the job then it's not easy to show any breach.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Did those wage figures for Bohs cover only footballing wages, or certain players rather passive 'additional' roles for the club, such as barmen, groundskeepers, youth trainers, window cleaners, fluffers etc....?

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Official FAI figures V internet gossip ? guess I will stick with the official figures this time :D

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Isn't this a breach of licensing if true? Monies owed either had to be paid or a written agreement in place so time ago according to my understanding.

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Not sure about the specifics of the Licencing requirements but I do know that verbal contracts have standing in Irish law (although not in British law which is what leads to confusion).
Bohs restructuring bonus payments (ifc that occurred) would presumably be the same as other clubs "reviewing" contracts and as long as it was done by agreement then should not be a problem.

On a seperate note (but mentioned in thread) the High Court did not find that there was a contract between Bohs and Albion but that Albion had a "reasonable expectation that one would be completed".

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Originally Posted by BYCTWD

Get a grip. Comical Gerry span him a line and he repeated it word for word. Nutsy has met Dundee United twice now and has a three year contract in his hand.

Its been reported before that Fenlon was owed money. He is free to talk to anyone, which is exactly what he has been doing for months now. Bohs are of course right to try and get some compo, but its increasingly obvious that he can, and will, walk for free.

Once a hoop etc. :D

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Settle down, you'll need to explain all your points fully.

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Originally Posted by BYCTWD

Both clubs clearly have spoken to each other. Dundee Utd requested and got permission to talk to Fenlon. Bohs are haggling over compensation. So you are simply wrong there.

We know Fenlon met with Dundee United at least once and there is a disputed earlier meeting. Malone's report seems to be Bohs using the press to try and dampen talk of an already done deal. He is gone. 3 years. No compo.

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Now, don't you feel better about settling down? Take another sip of blackcurrant tea. You have discarded the emotive, abusive labels. That's real progress.

My earlier post regarded the talk about a financial settlement. You have now clarified that 'Fenlon free to talk to anyone' you meant Bohemian FC gave Dundee Utd. to talk with Pat Fenlon. It's good you recognise that.

Your point about IT and Emmet Malone shows itself as just your own bias, once you've explained yourself I understand it as your own opinion.

The tennis reportage will continue....... take another sip now.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

Official FAI figures V internet gossip ? guess I will stick with the official figures this time :D

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Yep, they've proved to be correct every time so far...

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Originally Posted by LeixlipRed

I can't help but laugh at this. This league truly is a complete shambles.

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I cannot for the life of me see how these events reflect in any way on the League of Ireland.:confused:

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

Not sure about the specifics of the Licencing requirements but I do know that verbal contracts have standing in Irish law (although not in British law which is what leads to confusion)

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Wrong. Verbal contracts have an identical standing to written contracts in British law. A contract is a contract, provided you can prove that it existed in the first place, or has been performed.

The issue here is that the licensing board specify a written agreement - utterly nothing to do with the standing of verbal contractual arrangements.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

bye bye. seriously i dont care about him. get someone good in. what a joke it is though that it is deemed a step up for the title winning manager of a club to be going to some no hoper club in a country the same size as the one he just left. irish football is a joke.

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Sorry, but thats utter rubbish irishultra - back to back leagues and an FAI and EA sports Cup for bonus. Nutseys ability to attract the best players to Dalymount is also a loss.
Huge act to follow.