Sinn Féin leadership and the IRA

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Originally posted by eoinh
You might have that. But New Zealand is an independent country. For me a small sacrifice like that is worth it for a united independent country. BTW if we ever do have a unified 32 county ireland i doubt if our flag would be the same or our national anthem. it would have to be changed to reflect all traditions on this island - not one!
For the flag ild say it would revert to the traditional one of a harp on a blue background.

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The Irish flag is meant to represent every tradition on this island anyway. And if the price of a United ireland is allowing Phil Coulter to invent another musical atrocity, you've got to wonder if its worth it! ;)

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Originally posted by SÓC
The FF subscription forms are in the post.

Welcome to the Party Éanna.

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there's as much chance of me joining the LVF :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Conor74
Or, deliberately setting out to break the direct order of the High Court and dismissing the rule of law as not applying to him because of his beliefs...

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Yeah a bit like Gandhi did when he went to make salt. :) If you believe you're right, the law shouldn't stop you, and Higgins was right. Just a pity none of those so-called representatives of the people gave a toss when there were bin protests in Cork and elsewhere. same ol' dublin.......

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Originally posted by Éanna
The Irish flag is meant to represent every tradition on this island anyway. And if the price of a United ireland is allowing Phil Coulter to invent another musical atrocity, you've got to wonder if its worth it! ;)

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I agree about Phil Coulter. But about things like flags you cant impose things like that, there would have to be agreement.


I read recently that for the first few years the Free State had two different anthems! Even our present one had the words changed a few times

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Originally posted by Éanna
Just a pity none of those so-called representatives of the people gave a toss when there were bin protests in Cork and elsewhere. same ol' dublin.......

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I assume what you're trying to say is "Just a pity we didn't elect any of these representatives in Cork"?

Actually is Ferris the only SF TD whos' done time? Did Morgan or Crowe do time for something?

I thought I read some wher that 2/5 of them were convicted criminals? Or am I wrong?

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Originally posted by Macy
I assume what you're trying to say is "Just a pity we didn't elect any of these representatives in Cork"?

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Sure why would we bother when we get 6/10 FF TDs on 38% of the vote :D

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Originally posted by Conor74
Noone is above the law, whether it's a FF TD on the take or a Sinn Fein TD running guns or a Socialist TD breaking a court order...

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Or a FF TD on the take and running guns? :D

Anyone clarify whether it was a Criminal or Civil charge against Joe Higgins?

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Originally posted by Conor74
Or 40%.

1/1 in the Socialist Party gives them a 100% rate when it comes to sticking two fingers at the rule of law!!...;)

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Shouldn't you be off threatening people giving evidence to tribunals or something?

Wasnt Lawlor in jail for civil contempt but Higgins on Criminal?

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Originally posted by Macy
You mean like Warrington? Only difference is the scale....

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Touché

But when we're talking about people's lives scale is kinda important.

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Originally posted by Conor74
Ahem....don't know about that. I presume Ferris felt that gunrunning was perfectly right too. And maybe, just maybe, whoever panted those bombs in Spain felt they were right. Noone is above the law, whether it's a FF TD on the take or a Sinn Fein TD running guns or a Socialist TD breaking a court order...

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Yeah, I didn't quite get my point across there. What I was angling at is that there have been many politicians all over the world who have been jailed, rightly or wrongly, for things they believed in, and i don't think its a fair reason to deny them a seat in parliament. its up to the electorate to decide who is and who is not fit to represent them.

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Originally posted by Conor74
Aha, you see I completely disagreed with your first point, but totally agree now you've rephrased it...

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Thats better :)

Just re the point you made though, that "maybe whoever planted those bombs in Spain felt they were right." IMO, that hits the nail on the head with regard to the approach western democracies (and the USA) are approaching the issue of so-called terrorism. They DO think they're right, and those who claim to be promoting peace and democracy are doing nothing to disabuse them of that notion. If you just keep bombing these people or locking them up, you will only make them surer that they are right. The only way to deal with this problem is to try and understand why its happening. The countries who claim to be fighting terrorism are in fact fanning its flames, because they ask "who" instead of "why."

If there was a warning for Warrington then it was a very short one. If the IRA were going for so called "military" targets then wouldn't be a fraction of the total deaths in the 6 counties.

IMO been long time since the IRA fought for a cause besides greed.

the brit government quite happily absorbed military deaths for decades,civilian deaths only slightly less so.the current peace process was brought about not by adams,ahearne,reynolds,clinton,blair, major,trimble or any other politician.it was born out of necessaty after the provos finally bombed the one thing westminster really cares for namely the city of london.anyone who believes otherwise is guilty of believing in the goodness of politicians.first rule of government,its the economy...stupid.second rule....etc....etc

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Originally posted by my left foot
the brit government quite happily absorbed military deaths for decades,civilian deaths only slightly less so.the current peace process was brought about not by adams,ahearne,reynolds,clinton,blair, major,trimble or any other politician.it was born out of necessaty after the provos finally bombed the one thing westminster really cares for namely the city of london.anyone who believes otherwise is guilty of believing in the goodness of politicians.first rule of government,its the economy...stupid.second rule....etc....etc

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110% correct. This is the point that most people choose to forget. Major came back to the table after Manchester and Canary Wharf and for no other reason.

So-called democrats, when they get into a lather about "terrorism", always overlook this fact. "Terrorism" directed against economic targets works, simple as that. I was sickened by Enniskillen and Warrington to name but two, firstly because of the senseless waste of human life, and secondly because they did nothing to advance the cause of Irish unity and a lasting peace.

As my left foot says Governments and politicians don't give a **** about people just money and the economy. The IRA's bombing of the London Stock Exchange did more to bring about the peace process than any guff from the SDLP/the Unionists or southern politicians.

KOH

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Originally posted by Conor74
. But I still wouldn't give the IRA much credit for attacks such as Canary Wharf...

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Not giving them credit Conor just pointing out the cold hard fact that it was effective in a way that coventional politics often isn't. Unpleasant maybe but true nonetheless.

KOH

i wouldnt give them the credit either but the peace process wouldnt be necessary if the minority in the north were to accept their obvious place in life.second class citizens.lets here your argument then

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Originally posted by Conor74
But surely there would be little need for a peace process if it wasn't for the IRA's bombing and murdering campaign

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There was need. The IRA campaign started when the Catholic people asked for the IRA to protect them against the RUC and loyalists. We've needed a peace process since partition.

If it was a a single specific target that caused the end of the troubles (or should i say major events, as loyalist and ira crime violence is still happening) dont you think the IRA would have cottoned on to it sooner?