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no, as much as we'd all like to believe this, it's on the FAI website, they've admitted to making the request.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
also, Tiktok, it's so obvious that you have kids, no other way you'd have the patience to actually respond to Emmet's posts!!! :D
Exactly. Blatter spins and they all bite. Let Mr Blatter get on with his job and stop annoying him John. Sure the whole world is laughing at us. Delaney has gone up in my estimation and is doing his job.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Breaking news: Stephen Ireland has issued a late plea to be added as a 24th member of any squad who have already qualified for the World Cup after someone told him it was unfair that Ireland would not be playing at the World Cup. John Delaney has stated that Ireland would consider adding Ireland as a 24th member of the Ireland Squad should both Ireland and Ireland be successful in their appeals.
Yeah, good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Newryrep
And it's obvious you never fully grew up given your level of immaturity.Quote:
Originally Posted by magnumpi
Time to put you on ignore now cause I just can't be a*sed reading anything you have to say.
We didn't lose in the sporting sense of the word, when will that finally penetrate that skull of yours?Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
If an athlete wins a race and has later been found to have cheated, taken tons of steroids, etc, what's the proper course of action?
It's to cancel their final placing, disqualify them, strip them of their medal and award the victory to the second place athlete.
This goes beyong Ireland vs France another thing which fails to get through to some people.
It's basically a question of catching cheaters in soccer and punishing them and rewarding those who play the sport honestly. That issue will be as valid a 1000 years from now if people are still playing soccer. It's not a case of forgetting Ireland v France, it's a case of punishing cheaters in soccer, instead of turning a blind eye to what they do.
However in FIFA land, those who cheat are rewarded, those who play fairly are punished.
It is my opinion that the FAI are not an international embarrassment. John Delaney has a bit of leverage here and seems to be using it. Maybee hardcore football fans may see us as sore loosers but he whole world has been talking about this, people who have no interest in football and live thousands of miles from Lansdown Rd. are still chatting about this. FIFA are not concerned about the hardcore football fan, they already have that market cornered, they are concerned about the fare weather fan or fans of other sports. It is here where so much damage has been done. Delaney should take any advantage as the global audience see FIFA as the embarrassment and not the FAI
well it wasnt until about 3 hours ago and this request will disappear from peoples minds long before the cheating doesQuote:
Originally Posted by Newryrep
ah come on now, that's being ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Absinthe
best team in the known universe, maybe.
I would like to believe that, based on the official statement, the FAI were inquiring into the possibility of Ireland being accommodated at the World Cup in the possibility of another country pulling out or being kicked out. That is fair to inquire after, I believe. Being number 33 is an embarrassment, and logistically impossible.
But reading the statement again, and again, it becomes a little more mystifying. It is very carefully phrased:
A lot was discussed at the meeting and at one stage the FAI asked if Ireland could be accommodated into the World Cup 2010.
"At one stage". What does this mean, I wonder to myself? It is so carefully put, as though to avoid someone taking an action out for saying otherwise. Blatter could not get away with saying this without some backing - a long time PR man, he knows his roads.
The thought that keeps crossing my mind is that after an hour of investigating other things, and another hour of pleading for a replay, and FIFA saying "we really want to help you but there is nothing we can do", Delaney realising the futility throws an pen on the desk and says, almost to no-one and to everyone "well, you could let us come anyway". Followed by 20 minutes of FIFA lawyers writing everything down and Sepp smiling out saying "I am afraid that will be quite impossible, Mr Delaney", while stroking his white cat and thinking to himself that this small time Irishman with all his own hair will regret failing to vote for him in the elections for president.
That thought does continue to see Blatter appearing in the next scene in the underground bunker in a silvery suit with a man with heavy voice regularly saying things liek "T minus seventeen minutes... and counting...", but that is hardly relevant here. What Blatter does in his private life is not yet of concern to the Irish football fan.
we should play it in the conga - where algeria and egypt played! it wud be mentalQuote:
Originally Posted by foureyes
There are VAST differences between individual events in athletics and team events. Let's say that Thierry Henry was found to have taken performance enhancing drugs, why should Franck Ribery be denied a place in the World Cup finals. The standard and correct course of action for Drug taking [your own example] is that the individual and not the team are punished, otherwise we'd be in trouble too thanks to Paddy Kenny. The fact of the matter is that intentional handball isn't a red card offence, let alone an offence warranting a lengthy ban. We've been hard done by, it's disgusting, but it happens every single week of the year to some team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
I'm glad to see that you've come around to this issue being about getting cheating out football though, maybe now we can concentrate on the real issues surrounding the incident and the match, making sure that it doesn't happen again, making use of the technology that's available to us and give up on this 33rd team/replay nonsense.
The best comment I've seen around all this issue came [I think] from Arsene Wenger when he made the point that millions upon millions of people watching on TV knew within seconds that the goal should have been disallowed, but the one man on whom the decision to award a goal rested was not allowed to take advantage of the Tv pictures.
That's the issue here, plain and simple, the actual football issue.
All the rest is smokescreen to put pressure on FIFA to give us a 2012/13 Champions league final or a bit of cash so that we'll stop embarassing them and ourselves and will go away and not have to worry so much about the costs incurred on the Aviva stadium.
I do realise that circumstances were completely different but I recall 2005/06 Champions League when Liverpool failed to qualify through their league position, they were allowed back into the qualifiers. UEFA wanted their champions in and thus allowed them back in. One can't help but wonder if FIFA would have been more accomodating towards France had it been the other way round.
Just on Emmett's point about kicking out drug cheats in athletics, it's not quite the same in football.
In athletics an athlete gets DQed and the next athlete is awarded his place. In our instance Ireland were not beating France and wouldn't have even if Henry's handball had been spotted.
We have been defrauded out of a possible world cup spot (yes it might still have gone to penalties where we still had a 50-50 chance).Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
It's only right we seek some sort of recompense for this.
To not seek redress would be to add to the injustice.
When a crime is carried out, it's only natural to seek justice, by whatever means, putting pressure on FIFA, getting them to change their rules, showing them up to have flawed processes.
Their rules in regard to appealing a match result are flawed. Anyone sensible would see Ireland have grounds for an appeal, clear grounds.
Even in GAA, video evidence is used to suspend players. I know it happens in soccer too.
But the rules of the game were grossly infringed. While it may be late for Ireland, FIFA are hesitating and I see no firm committment to any rule changes to stop it happening again.
For what it's worth, putting extra officials behind the goal line is not the answer in my opinion. Because it's still quite easy for these officials to miss everything that's going on.
What happened I believe in Paris is the linesman was solely focused on the player/s returning from an offside position and was watching to see if they touched the ball and that's why I think the linesman missed Henry's handball which happened very fast. Putting a guy behind the line, he could have missed it too or like the ref in Paris chosen not to see it.
Look at rugby, what use would an extra ref be, in the goalmouth area for spotting trys? Once everyone falls over on the ball, it's almost impossible to see a touchdown without slowmotion video evidence from a number of angles.
Many things happen in soccer which are too fast for the human eye and need to be slowed down.
Cheating is cheating regardless of the sport. If you look up cheating in the dictionary I'm sure it says something like gaining and using an unfair advantage to beat your opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
There is no real extremes when it comes to cheating. It's either cheating or it isn't. People say Henry didn't cheat because the ref didn't see it.
lads is there any chance of this happening ?? blatter didnt seem to dismiss it out of hand did he ?
Have the FAI made an official statement on this yet? Just wondering as I just heard Blatter on the radio explaining how the FAI asked to be made the 33rd team and him and his cronies were almost pishing themselves laughing as he announced this to reporters. While I wouldn't put it past the FAI to do this I wonder is Blatter playing it up a little as well knowing that it makes the FAI look stupid thus almost invalidating their other legitimate points re: using video technology in the future, etc.
I'll put it like this. He announced it to uproarious laughter from his lackeys and then he had a good chuckle himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggie
might aswell give it a go. fifa will have to do something to improve their extremely tarnished image and it would be a very popular move across the world(except for costa rica or if we ended up in your group).
anyway all fifa think about is the money and allowing ireland in would increase their revenue from the tournament.
ooh..guess that my hopes cruely shattered again....:oQuote:
Originally Posted by Maroon 7
Listened to Blatter's statement on the radio. His tone was sarcastic and mocking if anything. He explained that the FAI had made a request to be team no. 33 which was greeted by a chorus of laughs from the audience (journos/FIFA delegates??). He then had a chuckle himself and said 'yes really they did ask!' He was being a collosal arrogant pr!ck. FIFA released their statement early this morning.
Within two hours the FAI had released their own statement, ONE line of which reads 'A lot was discussed at the meeting and at one stage the FAI asked if Ireland could be accommodated into the World Cup 2010'. For me, the FAI's playing down their request is an attempt to save face. Blatter is now trying to discredit the FAI, making them look like they are clutching at straws to the point of being ridiculous.
A footballer handled a ball, there was no fraud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
A footballer handled a ball, there was no crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
A huge number of the games that I have seen in my life have been influenced greatly or even decided by poor refereeing decisions or blatant cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
A match should be decided within 90 minutes using all the techniques available to ensure that the fairest result is achieved. Appealing entire games is a flawed concept, not a flawed process requireing improvement. Video rerferees is the outcome people should be looking at here.
How can you suspend Thierry Henry for something that is at worst, by the current laws of the game, a yellow card offence?Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
Whatever else happened, this is childish rubbish. The Ref was clearly unsighted, if he was interested in putting France through he could have given the penalty when Anelka went down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
Nothing happens in football which is too fast for the human eye in fairness, the issue is when the ref's human eye is unsighted or looking in the wrong direction. Video refs need not slow the game down at all, the game can be preetty stop start anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
Lets face it it is the only way of saving the World Cup, let's hope Blatter sees sense and restores the legitimacy of the tournement.
Easy to do, just put it to the vote of the member countries, nobody would vote against it.
It also means potentially one more 'easy game' for them it drawn in our group.
Again, cheating is cheating. The issue is how cheating is dealt with and what redress teams have when another team/player have blatently cheated.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
You also fail to understand the point about there being no replays available. If a ref misses something, that seems to be the end of it....except in Rugby, American Football, Cricket, Tennis and many other sports, it isn't the end of it.
The reason TMO's were brought in in rugby is that events happen so fast that the ref possibly cannot be on the try line to see a player touch the ball down everytime. Tries were awarded with the ref unsighted, other tries were not given because the ref was unsighted. The case for a TMO has never been stronger in soccer.
They'd all vote against it, and they should all vote against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
I've said this elsewhere but why would you put your country's team in a position whereby
You'd potentially play an extra game in 2 weeks compared to the team you'd meet in Rd2
Play an extra game whereby you could pick up injuries and yellow cards
Bring a team who would otherwise have gone into the 2nd pot in as a fifth seed, making your own progression harder.
Where did I say Henry should be suspended. I was making a point about the use of video evidence. Try to pay attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
I don't know which is more Boring at this stage - this protracted saga with Henry, Delaney, FIFA etc or the thread warfare between Emmet7 and tiktok !!
I just think an athlete gaining advantage from illegal drugs is different to a footballer making a spur of the moment decision to cheat. Also, an athlete is typically acting as an individual whereas France didn't cheat collectively. I think there are different degrees of cheating and by football standards the Henry incident was pretty bad, and certainly unusual (unlike diving for example).Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
Just pointing out errors in the comparison, in my mind anyway, as I agree that action should be taken against Henry.
i think that FIFA should bring Ireland to the World Cup. Just parade them around for the crowds before each game so they can smile and wave at the crowds in FAI suit/blazer combos.
I think that would be nice.
He may be trying to laugh it off but yesterday's story is still in his face!Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Doo
haha:DQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
all the crowd with giant wavy hands.
http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...1&Itemid=8Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroon 7
I'm going to stop with you, you don't even know what you're arguing in favour of anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
How is asking to be the 33rd team in a 32 team competition going to stop cheating taking place, all it would do would be create a precedent where teams are progressed through rounds of knockout competition or awarded points as a result of refereeing decisions.
There should be no provision for replays or for appeals for teams once FIFA put in place provisions that all available technologies are put in place to ensure that the correct calls are made on the spot. Video referees should be brought into ensure that 'redress' isn't even needed or sought.
Putting procedures in place to allow replays for something that's always happened [and always will until technology is embraced] is hugely counterproductive and would be a pointless logistical nightmare for every association in the world
What I am arguing for is some form of redress, a recognition of a wrong, changes to FIFA processes to allow appeals, the introduction of TMO's for cases where refs are unsighted and overall universal fairness in sport. Simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
While I recognise redress is virtually impossible in this instance, without getting redress for these wrongs, it will only encourage their re-occurance again and again, it's a simple concept really and underpins most judicial systems around the world.
As for saying putting in replays is a logistical nightmare, you know that's nonsense. Every top level Rugby match in England and Ireland, Heinekan cup, internationals already have this in place, and their revenue is a tiny fraction of soccer revenues. Probably the weakest argument I have heard yet against TMO's.
Anyways, I'm going to stop with you as well, getting tired of this now.
I suspect you'd probably be the very one to castigate the FAI if they didn't explore every avenue. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
"Suit/blazers" - what would you prefer tracksuit bottoms or pajamas:rolleyes:
Here is the interview
http://www.skysports.com/video/inlin...734974,00.html
Mods, could we have a poll please?Quote:
Originally Posted by Reality Bites
Reality Bites needs help making a decision.
Jesus Wept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
I was talking about replays of entire matches, not replays of fifteen seconds of video footage.
That was completely obvious from my post as well.
I can draw you pictures in crayon if it'd help you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
An extra game means extra TV revenue and more money for FIFA, the broadcasters, the venues, the hotels, the host city and just about everybody else concerned.
Everybody wins basically. Few teams would see Ireland as a threat to their progress and the one who did are unlikely to progress anyway however they will benefit from a 33% (1 estra game?) increase in revenue.
Also you get a lot more interest from from Irish Americans, Austrailians etc which will pull in a lot of money, I expect there would be probably more watching Ireland than France worldwide, the sort of people the advertisers would like to target, ie first world wealthy folks as opposed to poor Africans following the largly African immigant French side (who the French public seem to have little love for).
Infact I would not be surprised if Blatter did not come up with the idea - lol.