Diarra and Andrews bust-up

Having read the whole thread I am disgusted the way some of you talking. Break his leg and things like that. It's awful stuff lads he may well have insulted a nation. Then again it could be no different to anything that is said in football match after a bad tackle etc.

This whole French hating stuff and brining up a world war where France were not the only country in Europe or the world who were steam roled by the Germans.

By all means hate the French football team, hate Diarra. The best medicine for his ignorance is defeat. Simple as. We can send out 10 players to hack the legs off him but will that bring us any closer to where we want be. No.

Channelled aggression and cool heads are what we need not raging lunatics running around trying to hurt people. Because then my friends we are no better than they are.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John83

That example is simple rhyme, which makes it memorable. I'm struggling to think of another which isn't.

---

American Woman by Lenny Kravitz.

End of debate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeBleu

Excellent idea. Red card for Andrew.
Advantage France.

---

Ever hear of sarcasm? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by galwayjames

Ever hear of sarcasm? ;)

---

Ever hear of not being being able to detect sounds from words on a screen?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jebus

Ever hear of not being being able to detect sounds from words on a screen?

---

Ever hear of uh..um.. meh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LeBleu

I'm a froggy.

I hate some of my compatriot (especially tourists). I find us very pretentious, never happy and we know everything on every subject. We never wrong. Never.

In the other part, I like my country for different reason: F*****ng great food (cheese, wine), the women, the culture and for many other clichés...

For information, during the WW2 my grandfather has spent a "little time" on nazi's prisonner camp. He escaped from it to London, (at his return his weight was 70 pound). So not all the french are "surrenders monkeys" but a huge part is cheese eater!

I like ireland and irish. I have always spent wonderful moments on your country. Never meet nasty people (except on the roads). Always warm welcoming, always helpful. For me it is probably the best place on earth. (except dublin).
And I know too that your country is not a "paradise" for other reasons.

So I go back to football.
If Diarra says something bad about Irish people Irish staff must denounce that to the FIFA authorities and that's all.

I wish you "bonne chance" for wenesday and don't forget it's only football.

Allez les bleus!!!!

---

I think you are full of merde and more likely to be sitting in some sh!thole in Laois rather than in Paris.

"I am a Froggy" :rolleyes::rolleyes: !! ...more likely a Boggy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jebus

Ever hear of not being being able to detect sounds from words on a screen?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by galwayjames

Ever hear of uh..um.. meh

---

ever hear of shut up the pair of yis?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

American Woman by Lenny Kravitz.

End of debate.

---

That's written by Lenny Kravitz?:rolleyes:
The master of repeating a 3 line corus over and over again.

Are you gonna go my way!
Are you gonna go my way!
Are you gonna go my way!
Are you gonna go my way!
I just gotta let you know!
Are you gonna go my way!
Are you gonna go my way!
Are you gonna go my way!
Are you gonna go my way!
I just gotta let you know!

Works for a 30 second car commercial maybe :P

Lads this a storm in a tea cup. What we need are cool heads in Paris, not to run around in the red mist looking for physical revenge. The best way to stick it to Diara for whatever he said is to beat them by scoring more goals.

The most realistic chance we have of winning is with the same plan as Saturday. Keep it tight, try nick a goal and who knows what will happen. Talk of going over there and overrunning them with our passion or going all out attack isnt going to work. Neither is "lets get Diara!".
Will anyone on here watch France on the telly in the world cup and think "well at least we clattered Diara in that game last year".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scram

I think you are full of merde and more likely to be sitting in some sh!thole in Laois rather than in Paris.

---

Nice for Laois.

"full of merde". J'adore :D.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

**** off, Irish *****. You're out.

---

seems the times in england thinks he said the same thing . just wondering is this your source for this fine quote.

***edit***

never mind - i just read eleven a side..... :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John83

You're probably technically correct, but there's certainly some underlying racial tension in a phrase like that. Otherwise, why not just call your theoretical French and Irish men the pejorative and dispense with the nationalities?

---

yeah but French p**ck or fat pr**k or skinny little pr*ck is just so much better than calling someone a pr**ck. that little bit more hurtful :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John83

If Mary O'Rourke had claimed that her campaign staff had worked like Kerrymen, would she have gotten the attention she did?


That example is simple rhyme, which makes it memorable. I'm struggling to think of another which isn't.

---

The Ragin' Cajun!
The Butch Dutch!
The Crushin' Russian!
The Arabian Kasabian!
The Palestinian Minion!
The Australian Pygmalion!
The Tantric Icelandic!
The Welsh Belch!

And now for my very favourite:
The Faero Quaro!


anyone got any other suggestions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RiffRaff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYAlW...2D7322&index=1

---

Always remember watching this as a kid... never realised it came from a spoof on the above one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

**** off, Irish *****. You're out.

---

Irish examiner has expanded on this a bit...

f**k off, you Irish c**t. You're out.

Is what they claim were the words used by Diarra, I can understand Andrews' and Dunne's reaction...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...lic-of-ireland

Apparently Diarra didn't say anything.....

"You get some players who are looking to get you into trouble. I don't know what happened. The Irish had lost 1-0 and they were not happy so it had to be our fault. I did not take the lead. It lasted about 30 seconds and then I returned quietly to the dressing room. The Irish have tried to get at us in the newspapers, looking for stories, but I don't see why I should talk about the Irish people."

And as for Abidal "They are provocative, malicious," said the Barcelona full-back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by as_i_say

I wouldnt worry about it. Most of this "French" football team arent French anyway. African B team.

---

Hmmm...

A case of pot and kettle, when it comes to some of the sides we've put out over the year, but it's actually far worse than that as you will discover.

On the off-chance that your comment isn't completely racist and devoid of fact, let's have a look at the French starting lineup from Saturday as listed in The Irish Times, shall we?

Lloris - Nice, France
Sagna - Bourgogne, France
Gallas - Asnières-sur-Seine, France
Abidal - Lyon, France
Evra - Senegal
L. Diarra - Paris, France
A. Diarra - Villepinte, France
Anelka - Versailles, France
Gourcuff - Brittany, France
Henry - Paris, France
Gignac - Martigues, France

You may (or may not) have deduced that the right-hand column contains the birthplace of each player. To spell it out for you, this means that your "African B team" has a total of precisely one player who was born outside of France, Patrice Evra, who moved to France when he was seven years old.

Let me be the first to wish you a long and fruitful career in the BNP.

Chances are that Diarra's probably a bit of a tool but come on lads, sh!t happens on the pitch with emotions high. There's only one way of sticking it up his hole and it's not by breaking his leg!!

This is a lot of fuss over very little. Diarra probably did say something nasty, as I can't imagine Andrews and Dunne faking that kind of reaction. But it is irrelevant really. It might motivate the Irish players, but if needing to win to qualify for the World Cup hasn't already done that, then I'm not sure this will. Maybe the press are making a big deal out of it to try and scare Diarra in some way, which I very much doubt will happen.

As for the comments about breaking his leg, even if they are jokes (which I'm not sure about, as they are only described as jokes after another poster has criticised them) they're idiotic. We want, after 90 mins, Andrews to be in a position to say to Diarra, "F**k off, French c**t, you're out". That's the best revenge.

The team's disciplinary record under Trapattoni speaks for itself. I find the comments from the French players highly amusing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeLorean

Chances are that Diarra's probably a bit of a tool but come on lads, sh!t happens on the pitch with emotions high. There's only one way of sticking it up his hole and it's not by breaking his leg!!

---

Yeah, you're probably right. Though I admit I was one of those that called for blood!! It probably does happen all the time, however if that is the case why such a reaction from Dunne and Andrews?

If it had been an English or indeed a Northern Irish player that said such a thing there would have been uproar I suspect!!

Anybody read Henry say something along the lines of all British teams being hard to beat while talking about the match last Sat??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reality bites

**** off you irish ***** you are out.. Thats quiet a remark,, its certainly got me stoked...remember the french are at their heart a spineless weak nation, they were rolled over by the nazis in 1939 70 years later a band of less talented irish players have the chance to roll these arrogant ****s over.. Score first and lets see what they got!!

---

1940.

I agree with osarusan, lets just pray to god lads that he gets that chance.

ANd i do mean this, even if criticsed ;) to just be able repeat "fcuk you, you french cnut, you're out" :D

I can only imagine what his reaction would be like. Please god we get the result this country so badly needs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dingbat

...
Let me be the first to wish you a long and fruitful career in the BNP.

---

Or le Front National (or is it le National Front?). Plenty peeps in France wouldn't be too keen on this team including, surprisingly, this lovely lady, Isabella Imperatori. (Sorry can not provide a photo, but I saw her a decade ago on BBC defending le merde Le Pen. Quite a looker if I remember)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/p...of-Le-Pen.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

Or le Front National (or is it le National Front?). Plenty peeps in France wouldn't be too keen on this team including, surprisingly, this lovely lady, Isabella Imperatori. (Sorry can not provide a photo, but I saw her a decade ago on BBC defending le merde Le Pen. Quite a looker if I remember)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/p...of-Le-Pen.html

---

The fact that some in France say that they have trouble identifying with the team is a reflection of the problems in French society as a whole, witness the riots not so long ago. It does not in any way mean that those players are actually somehow less French than similarly talented players of previous generations, nor should it give anybody here licence to refer to them as an "African B team".

Lopez you could always ride the racism out of her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Lopez you could always ride the racism out of her.

---

Le Pen certainly hasn't.:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dingbat

The fact that some in France say that they have trouble identifying with the team is a reflection of the problems in French society as a whole, witness the riots not so long ago. It does not in any way mean that those players are actually somehow less French than similarly talented players of previous generations, nor should it give anybody here licence to refer to them as an "African B team".

---

If you are comparing players who were not born in France and have not one French grandparent, with players having all four grandparents French born, then you're wrong.

The French team is made up of French citizens. It is not an ethnic team, and FIFA does not work along having national teams based on purely ethnic lines, unless citizenship is based on purely ethnic lines. France is a multi-ethnic state, much the same as every state in Western Europe, including our own, and a good few in the East. These players have every right to represent France. But, I'm sorry, on ethnic lines, to say they are French is like the crowd in Hans Christian Andersen's 'The Emperor's New Clothes' saying the Emperor's wearing the height of fashion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

If you are comparing players who were not born in France and have not one French grandparent, with players having all four grandparents French born, then you're wrong.

The French team is made up of French citizens. It is not an ethnic team, and FIFA does not work along having national teams based on purely ethnic lines, unless citizenship is based on purely ethnic lines. France is a multi-ethnic state, much the same as every state in Western Europe, including our own, and a good few in the East. These players have every right to represent France. But, I'm sorry, on ethnic lines, to say they are French is like the crowd in Hans Christian Andersen's 'The Emperor's New Clothes' saying the Emperor's wearing the height of fashion.

---

I appreciate the point you are making, but you can't get much further past the fact that fully ten of the eleven starting team were born in France. After that you go down a very slippery slope, a slope that would be encouraged by many of the more extreme right-wingers in society.

So Paul McGrath, Chris Hughton, etc. aren't ethnically Irish?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaveyCakes

So Paul McGrath, Chris Hughton, etc. aren't ethnically Irish?

---

I thought McGrath had ethnic Irish blood in him. Most of our non-white players have anyway.

I'm not saying it's important, but Zidane for example had two Algerian parents and no French blood, and many of those French-born parents are likewise the children of immigrants and French only by birth. That's the distinction being made above.

The only thing the French have got going for them is the fact that they are the only Arab nation not involved or in proximity to a war at the minute.

The lack of the stars and stripes on their jersey is also just a case of 'eaten bread is soon forgotten'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John83

I thought McGrath had ethnic Irish blood in him. Most of our non-white players have anyway.

I'm not saying it's important, but Zidane for example had two Algerian parents and no French blood, and many of those French-born parents are likewise the children of immigrants and French only by birth. That's the distinction being made above.

---

But how do you define French (or Irish) blood? If Zidane married a woman born ir, to ask n France of say...Albanian parents, would the child have no French blood?
How many generations does it take before we say they have French blood?

Or, to ask the question another way, how did those with French blood originally get it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by osarusan

But how do you define French (or Irish) blood? If Zidane married a woman born in France of say...Albanian parents, would the child have no French blood?
How many generations does it take before we say they have French blood?

---

You're looking for a clean answer on a nebulous subject.

To answer your questions, no such a child wouldn't have any ethnically French blood*, and sufficient generations for the French to intermarry sufficiently that they're no longer ethnically diverse, making for a new definition of 'ethnically French'.

I think you're debating me on semantics when you're really just uncomfortable with the concept of ethnicity because it feels uncomfortably close to eugenics and other racist concepts.

*And anyway, Zidane is married to a Spanish woman. ;)

THis is all rather dubious stuff, but actually from the time of the Revolution the "French" nation has a civic or republican notion of itself rather than an ethnic one. Like many European nations even before immigration France has been a multi-ethnic nation (German speakers in Alsace, Basques, Catalans, Italian / Provencou speakers in Eastern Provence etc). I am afraid this debate really only has resonance within the agenda of the FN and other racist extremists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spanner

I'm just looking forward to some tough tackling early doors from Keitho!!

I clicked on this thread hoping to get some like-minded opinions :confused:. What kind of a tool am i???!! :eek:(there, I said it)

---

You're a spanner :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by third policeman

THis is all rather dubious stuff, but actually from the time of the Revolution the "French" nation has a civic or republican notion of itself rather than an ethnic one.

---

Interesting - can you back that up? This is in stark contrast to, e.g. Germany which is certainly ethnic (or at least cultural) in its origin - Bismark & dare I say Hitler both used the military to seize portions of other countries with German-speaking populations. Spain likewise has a strong sense of ethnicity, and modern France, Holland and elsewhere have struggled to overcome the association of ethnicity with nationality.

Quote:

---

Like many European nations even before immigration France has been a multi-ethnic nation (German speakers in Alsace, Basques, Catalans, Italian / Provencou speakers in Eastern Provence etc).

---

More as a result of the fortunes of war than any great attachment to those folks as 'French' though, I think.

EDIT: This may be getting off topic, so I'd be happy to continue this element of the discussion via PM if you're interested.

Quote:

---

I am afraid this debate really only has resonance within the agenda of the FN and other racist extremists.

---

It certainly flirts with that. Whatever their ethnicity, most of those players would identify themselves as French, were born there, and have every right to play for their country.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by John83

Interesting - can you back that up? This is in stark contrast to, e.g. Germany which is certainly ethnic (or at least cultural) in its origin - Bismark & dare I say Hitler both used the military to seize portions of other countries with German-speaking populations. Spain likewise has a strong sense of ethnicity, and modern France, Holland and elsewhere have struggled to overcome the association of ethnicity with nationality.

More as a result of the fortunes of war than any great attachment to those folks as 'French' though, I think.

EDIT: This may be getting off topic, so I'd be happy to continue this element of the discussion via PM if you're interested.

It certainly flirts with that. Whatever their ethnicity, most of those players would identify themselves as French, were born there, and have every right to play for their country.

---

I hope keith discuss's this with Diarra at length after Ireland are victorious.

I am sure Diarra's opinion on such matters will be of interest.

Best thing all of us can do is stick a tenner on Andrews to score tomorrow. He's 28-1 for first goal. He's well capable of doing it, especially now!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dingbat

I appreciate the point you are making, but you can't get much further past the fact that fully ten of the eleven starting team were born in France. After that you go down a very slippery slope, a slope that would be encouraged by many of the more extreme right-wingers in society.

---

It's the elephant in the room. No one want's to talk about it, but everyone is thinking it. That goes for both in France and in Ireland.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DaveyCakes

So Paul McGrath, Chris Hughton, etc. aren't ethnically Irish?

---

If you read what I was saying about all four grandparents born abroad with no French connections, you'd find the answer to that question. The same could be said about Barak Obama. First Black American president or second Irish-American president? Trouble is that it isn't just white people who are into classifying anyone with 'one drop' as black, but a hell of a lot of black people too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule

One drop of black blood? I'm a soul man FFS! :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by third policeman

THis is all rather dubious stuff, but actually from the time of the Revolution the "French" nation has a civic or republican notion of itself rather than an ethnic one. Like many European nations even before immigration France has been a multi-ethnic nation (German speakers in Alsace, Basques, Catalans, Italian / Provencou speakers in Eastern Provence etc). I am afraid this debate really only has resonance within the agenda of the FN and other racist extremists.

---

Black people in France at the time of the revolution were given citizenship. The notion of race came along in the nineteenth century. As slavery ended and mass immigration entailing a few sailors jumping ship, most of these people's genes dissapeared in the French population as they married white people whose offspring then married more white people etc. Believe it or not, the same thing happened in Britain and Ireland at the end of the eighteenth century.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seanfhear

I hope keith discuss's this with Diarra at length after Ireland are victorious.

I am sure Diarra's opinion on such matters will be of interest.

---

What that d*ckhead needs to be told, providing this isn't some 'The Sun' job and all he said was 'f*ck off, c*nt, you're out', is that you don't have to be black to be the subject of racism or discrimination.

See you all in Paris.