Matthew Kilgallon ???? rumoured with a 4 million pound move away from the blades today
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Matthew Kilgallon ???? rumoured with a 4 million pound move away from the blades today
Matthew Kilgallon.. always asumed he would have Irish in him but what is the connection? Pretty sure he's been capped U21 for England.
So, logically, since Darren Gibson played for Northern Ireland U-16s, I presume you don't think he should be playing for the Republic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggie
No chance with Gary Cahill. He's going to the World Cup with England......Capello's dark horse.
That's a ridiculous comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
No it's not. Player plays for team other than Rep of Ireland at under age level, then declares for ROI. That's what Gibson's done. (And I think that's fair enough. I'm not saying he shouldn't). So why is it right for Gibson but not right for anyone else?Quote:
Originally Posted by boovidge
They weren't given the option. Like one of our great legends Houghton has said, he would have played for scotland except they snubbed him to many times, so he accepted Jack's callup, was like a two fingers up to Roxbury. Maybe had Aldo, Townsend, Mick, Big Cas and plenty of others been given an England callup first, they would have accepted it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggie
I would give anyone a chance unless they have been
derogatory towards Ireland. I dont think a player fully understands what it is to represent Ireland until they pull on the shirt and experience the passion of the crowd. If their grand mother or grand father was Irish, I think they have every right, they still have Irish blood in them.
Its up to the manager to decide if they will fit in or not.
Completely agree. (Although probably hard to prove if potential player had ever been 'derogatory' towards Ireland. Would telling Irish jokes count?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Polster
We'd be all f**ked soQuote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
I think Stan asked Kilgallon 3 years back but Fifa's policy is now changed so he may well be available for us
gibson is still 100 per cent irish. playing for the north isnt really like playing for a different country. hes one of our own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
well said polster bar including big mick. he was always going to play for ireland.
why dont we do a poll on this
Why do you want a pole? Your argument is completely flawed, andQuote:
Originally Posted by Duggie
prejudiced against players without knowing all the circumstances.
Are you saying because Ray Houghton wanted to play for Scotland first, which he has admitted in the past, he is not an Ireland legend, and should never have played for us?
Are you saing if Townsend, Sheedy, Aldrdidge, Cas or any of the others that qualified through ancestory rules had of been called up for England or anyone else, they would have refused them? to wait for an Ireland call up? Some how I doubt the majority if any would of waited, considering it was a surprise to some of them that hey qualified in the first place.
If you apply what you are saying now about Nolan, O Hara etc, well then you are saying all the above legends and others should never have played for Ireland, we'd have never had Euro 88, Italia 90, etc etc, and who knows, maybe not half the home grown players we have today.
Is this what you are saying?
forget about the players in the past, the rules have changed now. if anyone here would be happy with english u-21's switching countries cause they will never get a senior cap and putting on the green jersey and standing for our anthem then fair dues but i wouldnt. thats my opinion. im not discounting anyone else's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polster
how many times does Nolan have to say he's not interested before the FAI leave him alone?
The rules have changed a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggie
It's a bit rich complaining about Cahill and O'Hara possibly declaring for us and not having the same opinion on Houghton and Aldridge.
Frankly they'd be the usual moaning about them and one decent appearance and they'd be one of our own. No doubt those criticising Cahill or O'Hara would be leaping around like demented lemmings if one of them got the only goal v England in Cape Twon next year.
My opinion is that we are a small country with a limited playing pool and if a quality player is eligible and wants to play for us then we should pursue him.
Id go with that gspain, but as always there are exceptions. IN both cases that is
You might care to reconsider that the next time we meet on the field of play...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Duggie
After all, it felt like it the last time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jqcqc...rom=PL&index=5
:D
1. Gibson was much youngerQuote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
2. He was born in Ireland and was always going to play for one of the Irish teams.
3. The rules were not clear cut and he might have thought he had to play for NI instead of his preferred choice ROI.
.
I don't agree with that, it sounds like false patriotism in ones head much like the millions of Americans every March who declare themselves being Irish through and through as they consider Leprechauns and wearing green all the time as somehow being representative of the country. It's nonsense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Polster
To represent a country is to represent the people in it. You should have a connection with them and the land, your fondest memories in life should stem from there and you should understand the culture inside out. It doesn't matter whether you were born in Cork or Brazil, if you can say those things about Ireland I'll accept you as Irish. If you've lived your entire life in England/Scotland/wherever with no concrete memories of the country other than your father speaking great things about it and choose to line out for us, I'll be requesting you get the hell away from our team. You're not Irish and I don't want you there.
The Gibson case is different in that he qualifies directly as an Irish passport holder by being born on this island...hence he is naturally born irish!!
the likes of Cahill etc only qualify through (grand) parentage. Its obvious their links to this island are not as strong as someone born here! never-the-less, they have the same right to represent this country should they wish to do so (and the management consider them suitable for the task!)
Ive said it on this site before, but I have alot of relations in Coventry and Birmingham whos Grandparents are from Galway, and if you told any of them that they didnt have the right to regard themselves as Irish they would be extremely annoyed to say the least. Ive been to Ireland games with a couple of them and they are more passionate than most of the people that go to games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
I think for some people to appreciate people like your relatives they would have to go through the Irish immigrant experience themselves. Many second generation people born abroad consider themselves Irish or certainly have strong Irish roots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Having been an immigrant myself I have seen that many people that some Irish people do not consider Irish because they have not been born in Ireland do consider themselves Irish and some of them are more aware of their Irish heritage than some Irish people.
We do not have a large enough pool of talent to reject players that can qualify to play for us out of hand.
I would prefer to have "new players" on board at the start of a qualifying campaign and would be slow to draft in new players until that campaign is over.
Normally I will respect most opinions on here, but the above I take as very insulting and ignorant. Maybe you have been lucky enough not to have had family forced to emigrate in search of work, sending money home to Ireland to support others in a lot of cases. Like numerous others I have plenty of cousins outside of Ireland, that not only have they strong roots, but they make it their business to understand Irish history, culture and everything else Irish. I am now working in London and have a young son here. Although he carrys the cockney accent he is very much proud of his irish background. This is not something I have had to even push with him, as he knows where his Nana, cousins, uncles and aunties all come from. You saying you wouldn't want any one in these cases really does show a very high level of arrogance and ignorance towards Irish history in general and to those families who have needed to move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
I hate to repeat myself, but by your thinking, we would not have had so many of the Irish legends we did in the past, and I don't know what age you are, but if you are old enough to remember the good times under Jack, I presume you did not want any of the players there that had qualified under ancestory laws?
Without getting to political on this, but to just reinforce my point of why your comments are both insulting and ignorant, I leave you with three great men recognised as such in Irish History...
Eamonn De Valera - Born NewYork to an Irish Mother and Cuban Father
Big Jim Larkin - Born Liverpool to Irish Parents
James Connolly - Born Edinburgh to Irish Parents
Martin Kelly made his debut for Liverpool last night and was one of their best players, any Irish in him?
I am fairly sure he does have some Irish background, but he has been playing for England at under age level. Hopefully Trap and the boys are checking up all these options though. Obviously not for now, but worth making enquiries for down the line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauro 76
You can add Michael Davitt - not born abroad but raised there - (indirectly phrasing the term "boycott") to that list too polster.
With a name like martin kelly he has to be at least 3rd generation but he has played u20 for england.
Many of the most loyal and passionate of our fans have one thing in common too with the likes of Kevin Kilbane and Gary Breen - they were born abroad too. It doesn't make them any less Irish.
The numbers travelling away would be reduced considerably if you exclude the London Irish in particular.
im thinking of robbie keane having his son born in ireland and saying on the late late.."aah i couldnt have me son playing for england pat".
I don't have any problem with second generation Irish playing for Ireland, in fact I more than welcome them. However I strongly believe that these players need to demonstrate that they want to play for us and that we are their first choice - re: Kilbane. Yes it is a romantic viewpoint but international football is not about exploiting the eligibilty rules, it's about representing the nation you identify with.
You'll be requesting will you?.............Well you'll quite rightly be told to shove your request up your insular arse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Excellent point. It would certainly help to weed out those that had a grain of genuine interest in playing for the country.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
This is a bit sad mate. By your reckoning my kids could never represent Ireland. I live in Australia, have a French partner and realistically our kids won't spend too much time in either France or Ireland. $2000 per ticket adds up after all. They will however speak both French and Irish, they will have Irish or French passports along with their Australian passports. They would have all three but Australian law only allows for 2. I love Australia for all that it has given me and for all that it will give my children but it would break my heart to see my children represent anyone other than Ireland, the only way they will represent France is if they are girls (already agreed with my partner!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Should my son turn out to be the next Robbie Keane or Brian O'Driscoll will you feel better seeing him pull on the Gold of Australia or will you be on this forum denouncing him as a traitor, or as so many other posters here do, will you be asking "any Irish in him?". I am sure there are many other people on here in the same situation as me, all of whom would probably feel the same. Maybe when you are a bit older or more well travelled you will change your opinion.
Great post.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkCut
Brilliant!Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkCut
couldnt have said it better - and scarily similar to the deals struck with my wife - in my case swap Australia for Canada and France for Croatia.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkCut
Only one team my sons will be playing for.
Great post Silkcut.
Agreed, if there was a POTM on this board that would get my vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Silkcut it might break your heart but he might still well do it, ive found australians even second generation to be very ego-centric, maybe thats a bit strong a word but given its relative isolation to this part of the world they are very much an us and them which is demonstrated particularly in the rugby and international rules.
Anyway great post!
So why not set the same standards to the players born in Ireland? How many of them know their own country's history, and I'll leave it to the history of their state rather than their nation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
It's clear some people on this forum haven't a clue about their own history, coming up with sh*t like Gibson is foreign born being born in Derry. You know what I say to people who start up about my accent, because that's the only thing that separates us: The people who fought for you to have the right to follow your very own country weren't always born in Ireland. People like Eamon DeVelera, Robert Erskine Childers, Constance Markiewicz, James Connolly, who put their necks on the line. People like London born Joe Good, Collins' right hand man that was airbrushed from his biopic by Neil Jordan because obviously an English accent would cause too much confusion to the Irish public, who went on to become an Irish ambassador. Or his friends who were born in London and who Michael Collins threatened anyone in Frongoch if they disclosed their place of birth, as this would mean they would be packed off to the first world war. Or those that never got to Frongoch and were forced to dress in British uniform, who then ripped off their uniform knowing that they'd probably be shot for cowardice or desertion. (They were kicked out instead, as even the British Military reckoned that making them fight would be dangerous, while shooting them would give Ireland more martyrs).
To paraphrase the Italian manager of the team that won the 1934 World Cup: If you are entitled to fight for Ireland, you're entitled to play for Ireland. End of!