and you know what? If we played an away leg first and Irish fans were attacked, the opposition supporters would still get a warm welcome here in the return leg. Bloody sad!! Remember Russia a few years back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tipp Townie
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and you know what? If we played an away leg first and Irish fans were attacked, the opposition supporters would still get a warm welcome here in the return leg. Bloody sad!! Remember Russia a few years back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tipp Townie
nonsense, it's the fact that it is only being announced NOW that creates the uproar. you could stomach it if you had known all along that this was the case....Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbod
Just playing the devil's advocate for a second but if all the 2nd placed teams are equal then theoretically, it shouldn't make a difference if there is seeding or not:) Of course, we know this isn't the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeathDrog
This is the big issue I feel really. If it was stated before the competition commenced that teams were being rewarded for higher placed rankings, then we couldn't have an issue with it really.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeathDrog
FIFA are in a way covering their arses by announcing it now. They can argue that they don't know who will be in the playoffs in any of the groups. But lets face it, they have a fair idea of who will be in each.Quote:
Originally Posted by magnumpi
I know that like, but in terms of merit, all the teams who came 2nd are equal. Same way the 2 team who reach a final are deemed the 2 best teams in a tournament, but this isn't always true.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I wasn't overly serious really. It's really just the timing of the ruling that I have a major issue with though, although it would probably make more sense just to have an open draw anyway, when each team has reached a certain standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by MeathDrog
Aye I know what you meant like. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
Yeah I agree with your point. An open draw would be the fairest way, but not necessarily the best way of making money for FIFA, so of course its never going to happen. :rolleyes:
Did FIFA ever indicate that it would be an open draw? I don't remember seeing a FIFA statement on that.
Is there not an outside chance that we could be one of the seeded teams? e.g. if Sweden/Slovenia/Bosnia/Ukraine all finish second they are all ranked below us?
Don't know. I think it's fair to assume an open draw unless otherwise stated though, or at least it should be. In any well run competition the rules are decided beforehand, you don't just make them up as you go along.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Think UEFA did something similar for the playoffs to Euro 2000. Came out with this great idea to seed a few months before the playoff matches. There was uproar and they backed down, but then look at the draw that happened, as if by coincidence.
Scotland v England
Israel v Denmark
Slovenia v Ukraine
Ireland v Turkey
The four teams that would have been seeded were all kept away from each other, and all played away first. The hot balls trick was no doubt done here. UEFA/FIFA always get what they bloody want
Although the away teams do seem to be of a higher standard, I wouldn't have thought there would have been much advantage for UEFA having Ukraine there instead of Slovenia, Denmark instead of Ireland, etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by carloz
It was originally supposed to be an open draw but the prospect of Germany not qualifying swung the decision according to this:
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2009/0930/ireland.html
For this WC play off draw, I don't regard it as safe to assume it was going to be an open draw just because FIFA did not make it clear beforehand.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
It was more likely that there would be repeat of what happened in the previous WC play off draw when FIFA rankings were used to seed the teams into 2 pots.
Afaia FIFA have not made a u-turn on this play off draw format.
People are confusing a hope that it would be an open draw with a (non-existing) FIFA statement on the matter
"Irish fans would have been hoping for a kind draw against the likes of Slovenia, Northern Ireland, Bosnia or Slovakia, but that possibility now seems unlikely if FIFA stick to their guns."Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeside Swagger
I presume this is just wishful thinking on behalf of the person who wrote this article and there is no chance of FIFA not sticking to their guns considering Blatter has a neck like a jockey's nether regions? Certainly wouldn't appear that John Delaney is going to rock the boat!
FAI Chief Executive John Delaney remains optimistic about Ireland's chances in spite of the revised seeding system.
"Speaking in today's Irish Daily Mail, Delaney insisted: 'I'm not too sure where that [seeded draw] will place us but we've got concentrate first on what we've got to do.
'We've got to try and beat Italy and take it to the last game. And if we end up in the play-offs, we'd have been delighted to have got to the play-offs at the start of the group and we'll take what we get.'
He added: 'All I will say is that and team who finishes second mustn't have been top team in their group, obviously. So it gives you a chance.'"
Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Why then is every single news outlet saying FIFA originally planned to host an open draw? Doesn't really matter either way as the point most people appear to be making (and with which I agree) is that the draw arrangements should have been clarified before the group matches even got under way.
I don't see anything to indicate this, am I missing something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeside Swagger
Yeah I meant that under normal circumstances you would assume that a scheduled playoff, amongst the 2nd placed teams, would be level playing field. Of course with FIFA/UEFA decisions in the past we didn't assume anything, I just meant the way it should be, not the way it actually is.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
What a ridiculous post. You think it'd be better if away fans coming here were attacked?Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
That would be different than calling the decision a u-turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by eaststand85
I don't know why some of the media outlets assumed the position that FIFA had made a decision on the format and now changed their minds.
I thought it was assumed we would be búggered.
And if like you say we're equal to all the other teams who finish 2nd, what's the problem? We have as good a chance against any of them. If there is seeding, what difference does it make whether announced now or a year ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by MeathDrog
Quote:
Originally Posted by magnumpi
And what would have changed, if you'd known all along? (besides the feeling in your stomach)
Obviously the sense that FIFA waited to see what way it panned out, and then decided whether top countries needed looking after or not. I think that's the general feeling and if it's the case it's obviously completely unethical. Would it have made a difference to our chances of qualifying? we don't know yet but that's not the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbod
We've been up against it from the beginning of this journey... FIFA can do whatever they want to try and stop us qualifying, I've had a feeling from the start of the campaign that we would be in South Africa and I still believe we will be :) be it Germany, France, Portugal etc.
As you can see I took my happy pills this morning!!
Looks like rte had a u-turn of their own, i posted it at 3.39pm and the article has since been updated as of 4.01pm. It originally said something about the prospect of the Germans not qualifying would have been unfeasible from a commercial viewpoint. This is most definitely a conspiracy, i've taken the liberty of contacting Jim Corr, all will be sorted out shortly.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I don't necessarily see what the problem is with FIFA's decision.
This was always on the cards. They seeded the teams for the 2006 WC playoffs, so there is at least a precedent, and I'm not aware if they did likewise before that too.
Anyway, it hardly changes matters, since we have to get to the playoffs first, and previous to this piece of news, we were still in the same position, knowing that we'd have to win on aggregate in the playoffs to qualify. The opposition is neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned.
Ray Houghton just been on Drivetime on RTE1 saying it's not right too.
So you would'nt care if we got russia/germany/france over say norway or bosnia?Quote:
Originally Posted by noddy102
FIFA is wrong. I wouldn't worry though. We still could top the group. Unlikely I agree but possible. Even if we finish second the seeding is irrelevent. Germany will top their group. They'd be the only one we wouldn't beat. So we won't have to worry about them. Croatia are sh**e. Russia and France are average. Portugal are average and wont even get second in their group anyhow. Croke park is very intimidating and I'd be confident of us beating any of the seeded teams. Bring on the Italians. C'mon you boys in green.
FAI Chief Executive John Delaney remains optimistic about Ireland's chances in spite of the revised seeding system.
"Speaking in today's Irish Daily Mail, Delaney insisted: 'I'm not too sure where that [seeded draw] will place us but we've got concentrate first on what we've got to do.
'We've got to try and beat Italy and take it to the last game. And if we end up in the play-offs, we'd have been delighted to have got to the play-offs at the start of the group and we'll take what we get.'
He added: 'All I will say is that and team who finishes second mustn't have been top team in their group, obviously. So it gives you a chance.'"
A statement like that is indicitant of the FAI's "Ahh sure aren't we lucky to be here" mentality coming out again I see. If Delaney had an b***'s about him he would have been contacting other 'smaller' countries in a similiar situation to ours ages ago & trying to get a definate answer to the seeding but I guess he must have been promised some kind "back room seat" with FIFA or UEFA when his tenure ever comes to an end(Rant about this over)
What's happened has happened we should get over it, ensure the fans can provide all the help we can for the team & if we have to go to Moscow or Belgrade then we have to - i'm sure some of the 'veterans' of the last 2002 campaign have a story or two to tell if they made it to Tehran for that game.
I already clarified what I meant by 'equal' a few posts after this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenbod
I don't agree. I'd say they are probably lobbying behind the scenes for an open draw but know they're up against it. The CEO of the FAI can't very well be going "We're doomed if we get Russia" to the press. He's just putting a positive spin on what looks like being a detrimental situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by philliyk
It does matter, you set up the rules in advance not during the game. This is just plain wrong and just shows how corrupt FIFA is, no doubt he has been unde pressure to ensure that the big teams make it to RSA.Quote:
Originally Posted by noddy102
Stuttgart - get what your saying but it's annoying that if they are doing it why not come out now & let the fans know. As it is the fans who are going to shelling out their own money on having to get to which ever city it may be I don't think its asking much to be kept in the loop - anyway like I said - its done know so we'll just hada get on with supporting the team!!!
The problem I have with this is that it's moving the goalposts halfway through the game. If we'd known about this before then fine, but the conditions for qualifying were set down before the groups started and it's wrong to change them at this stage. A very obvious and cynical ploy to make as much money as possible whilst sticking two fingers up at the smaller nations who have worked hard to get where they are in the groups.
No goalposts have been changed. The format for the play offs were not set down until yesterday. Same format as last time or almost the same.
And therein lies the rub. The cnuts of FIFA should decide this b*llox before any competition starts not halfway through, FFS. Or it smacks of even more of a fix than it is already.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Whether it affects Ireland is almost immaterial;it smacks of bad practice, which could be FIFA's motto....
Seedings are a fix.
Most every competition is seeded. 2006 Q play offs were seeded, I don't remember how far in advance that was announced. Were there protests about that?
The only reason we are moaning is because most likely we will not be seeded, should we get into the draw.
I don´t know why this issue was left so late in the day.
It's more than a reasonable guess that the big countries will anyway be in the top 4.
It is the point. Please read the thread. Our chances of qualifying are what this entire thread is about. At the risk of sounding repetitive, if we are good enough we will qualify. FIFA rules about seedings and play offs are irrelevant in that they apply to all of the teams equally.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
You can't win the World cup by only beating crap teams...........unless of course you're Germany then you can win anyway you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdomkerry
Agree entirely..............seems like we're the only ones trying to fix the draw to suit ourselves, ie....we want a weak team to play against!Quote:
Originally Posted by noddy102
Comes a time, eventually, when all is said and done, at the end of the day, in the final analysis, after long consideration, that we might just have to play against a good team and win!