I agree, will certainly motivate them and if project goes ahead as planned the bond is a non issue. Anyone know what the problems with the project are, the radio news was not specific on this?
Printable View
I agree, will certainly motivate them and if project goes ahead as planned the bond is a non issue. Anyone know what the problems with the project are, the radio news was not specific on this?
Any chance on the government providing a similar bond to the FAI to guarantee they don't change thier mind again after the Bertie Bowl fiasco?
:rolleyes:
IRFU / FAI Confirm Lansdowne Stadium Project on Schedule
21st September 2005
The IRFU/ FAI confirmed that their redevelopment of Lansdowne Road Stadium is on schedule to lodge a planning application by the end of the year. The organisations also expect to be in a position to reveal the conceptual design for the new stadium within a month.
The Steering Group set up by the Government to oversee the project whose membership comprises of representatives of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, the Department of Finance and the OPW as well as representatives of the IRFU and the FAI met today to receive a progress report on the development of the new stadium project.
Read more at www.lrsdc.ie
oh the lies, the liesQuote:
IRFU / FAI Confirm Lansdowne Stadium Project on Schedule
I agree, even at this stage I hear on the grapevine there has had to be some major design changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
Plus the cost over run which the FAIlure muppets sent to all the journos by mistake. What a balls this whole thing is. Plus the capacity is tiny
I think 50000 is more than adequate for Irish football, and the IRFU will be the principals so the FAI won't be given too much rope... ;)
85,000 would be a better figure when you are trying to get tickets for a World Cup game.
Just minus about 10,000 seats from that 50,000 for all the suits.
Feck, do I hate the FAIlure.
To be fair to the FAI (not a phrase you hear very often) the project isn't over budget. The stadium has been re-designed and the changes are supposed to pay for themselves.
Personally I'm not a big fan of corporate supporters either but if you're going to spend this ammount of money on a new ground there's only one way to pay for it. I think the system in Croke Park is as good as it gets. There's a set number of seats seperate from us normal folk where the corporates sit and eat their sandwiches or whatever. The rest of us can get on with supporting the team without having to put up with Billy-no-Atmosphear sitting behind us. If the stadium leaves us with 40,000 tickets for real fans and 10,000 money spinning seats that's still a huge improvement on the current situation.
You've been spending too much time with those FAI bigwigs. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bald Student
so what if there has? that is the way all large construction projects go as costs and design details are ironed out. the initial design by ARUP was only to show that a 50,000 seater stadium was feasable on the site. the new designers will have their own ideas and the design was always going to change. also, they have been talking to residents in the area about their plans and the issues that have come out of those discussions are probably now being incorporated into the design and will result in an easier path to getting planning permission. no big deal at all and people should start to believe in this project.. it will happenQuote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy
I admire your optimism but bear in mind that the govt is now looking for a performance bond which would lead one to believe they are not entirely confident. The design changes if I understood correctly related to the orientation of the stadium which is pretty major element I think you will agree and should have been factored in well before now.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
I do hope you are right though I would not wish any delays or overruns to hamper our new home.
It better happen, saw a piece the other day that the Swiss game could be the last ever competitive game at LR as we know it. I'll def miss something about the place, ya its falling apart but it has something very special about it. However a revamp is badly needed.
I think 50K is adequate but in an ideal world for the big games we should play in croker, likewise for the gaa games where they would expect 40-50k (the vast majority) could be played in LR.
Why not? at the end of the day it would benefit all parties, anyone whos being to croker when theres only about 30-40K will know it suffers badly atmosphere wise and security costs are unnecessarily higher.
The latest announcement by the LRDB indicates that they are on target for the application for planning permission to be submitted before the end of this year. They are expecting construction to commence in 2007 and for the project to take 27 months to complete. Even if work commenced early in 2007, it would not be completed until mid-2009 at earliest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboy
We will commence qualification for Euro 2008 in the autumn of 2006 and this will run until autumn 2007. What is not clear at this stage is whether the autumn ECQ games of 2006 will be played at LR with the remainder being played at CP or where ever. Similarly, will the IRFU want to play all of their 2007 Six Nations away from LR, if construction does not start early that year.
Similary if the project starts and finishes on time, say mid-2009, will we want our first games at the new stadium to be the last two and probably all-important 2010 WCQ's, without ever having played a game there? (It is certain that we will play our early home 2010 WCQualifiers at CP or wherever). It could be early 2010 before we play at our new home, assuming the stadium project is on time.
The Design of the new stadium is going to be realised next week but as the indo says its not going to be a bowl stadium. It might be one ugly stadium with a poor atmosphere :(Quote:
New Lansdowne stadium project to spark massive planning battle
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=13144
THE mother of all planning battles will kick off next week when the design for the new €358m Lansdowne Road is officially unveiled.
According to a number of sources, the East and West stands in the new stadium will be higher than at present, because of more premium and corporate box seats. The new stadium will not be a "bowl" design but the 50,000 capacity all-seater will be covered.
Although the design tries to take account of the concerns of residents in the Havelock Square and O'Connell Gardens area, backing on to the North Terrace, by minimising the "shadow" impact, both ends will be higher than the present uncovered stands. The key issues will centre on the overall height and design of the stadium, especially its impact at the North Terrace end.
Last April Taoiseach Bertie Ahern stunned the IRFU and FAI when he cast doubt on whether the new Lansdowne will ever be built because of potential planning problems it faces.
"I will have my doubts until the day it opens because I just think it is in a very built up area," he said. Sports Minister John O'Donoghue will launch the new design on Monday and the project team are ready to lodge the planning application in December.
The cost of the stadium has risen by about €65m from the original €292m when it was announced last year.
This additional cost is primarily because the number of premium seats has increased from 8,000 to 10,000 and there will also be a further 1,400 seats in corporate boxes. The extra €65m cost will be shared equally by the FAI and the IRFU. It was intended the IRFU would contribute €68m with the FAI putting in €33m. That will now rise to €100m for the IRFU and €66m for the FAI.
But for both the FAI and IRFU extra premium seats will prove a long-term money spinner. The Government has said it will commit €192m towards the cost of building the stadium and, more recently, it sought a €20m bond from the FAI and IRFU to protect the State's interest.
Brian Dowling
Political Correspondent
Even if they do figure out a nice design, it will be a tough task to push it through the planning regulation in this country.
LRSDC -> http://www.lrsdc.ie/home/default.asp
I've seen the plans for the new stadium as I was working on the Lansdowne project for 3-4 months. I think people will be quite happy when they see the design. Space, or the lack of it, was the key factor regarding the new design. The degree to which the new Lansdowne can be developed is restricted as it is obviously not a greenfield site. It is true that the new east and west stands will be dominant. It would be impossible to develop stands of a similar size at either the north or south ends of the ground, due to the lack of space. I quite like the design as it will create a modern stadium that maintains the classic attributes of Lansdowne Road. In some ways, it will be a typical British-style stadium, and although it is not a bowl, the predominance of the roof will help generate a great atmosphere.
I think there has been a general recognition in recent years that greenfield stadium developments are not as successful as was originally presumed. The necessay development of ancillary services, as well as the promotion of vehicular use, has made stadium developments on sites such as Abbotstown, a costly process, not just in financial terms. In contrast, stadium developments within the urban core, help to maintain the vibrancy of the area, as well as promoting more sustainable modes of transport. We should consider ourselves lucky that within the next few years we will have two modern stadia within a 20 minute walk of the city centre. A number of European cities have lost that in recent years, with out-of-town developments.
Perhaps the greatest concern regarding the planning process will be the height of the east stand towards the Havelock Square end of the ground. The top tier of the current east stand does not run the full length of the pitch. This was due to concerns expressed by local residents that it would block the natural height to their houses. I can't remember off-hand when the east stand was built, but I think it was the 1970s? It is my opinion that this concern regarding natural light will again emerge as the major stumbling block for the new Lansdowne Road. Concerns over disruption to the DART services will not be as much of a problem as initially foreseen. It is my information that the difficulties surrounding the DART are sufficiently dealt with in the Environmental Impact Statement to be submitted with the planning application.
The local residents will certainly offer the strongest opposition to the Lansdowne project. I'm expecting a long and protracted process and wouldn't be surprised if the planning authority isuue a request to respond to Further Information, thereby delaying the process further.
thanks for the post T.J.P.M!! Is there any examples of what it is going to look like ? I hope it is more continental than british. The stadia in portugal are fantastic.
I can't think of another similar stadium design. As mentioned earlier, the relatively small land holding placed huge restrictions on the type of stadium that could be designed. I'm aware of a thesis completed in UCD a few years ago which suggested that nearby Ringsend Park was the most suitable site in Dublin for the development of a new stadium. However, it is clear that the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road emerged as the preferred choice of both the FAI and IRFU, after the failures of Eircom Park and Abbotstown. Indeed, Eircom Park, with a capacity of approximately 45,000 would have been more of a Dutch design.
With regard to Lansdowne, the two main stands either side of the field will dominate the new design. However, the stands behind the two goal-ends are integrated well in the overall stadium. The design adopts certain aspects of a continental stadium. Nonetheless, its compact nature would lead me to believe that it is more of a British-style. I think this may be positive in terms of creating a good atmosphere. Lansdowne will be a tight stadium (similar to Basel in that regard) and could be very intimidating for opposing teams. I would consider Croke Park to be a more southern hemisphere-type stadium and feel this has taken away from the atmosphere. Croke Park is quite open, which leads to much of the noise being lost. Furthermore, the Hogan and Cusack stands on either side of the field are so far from each other that there is little interaction between the spectators in the respective stands. This leads to pockets of noise in parts of the stadium, with silence in other parts.
I agree that the stadia in Portugal are fantastic, especially the Estadio da Luz. These stadia were predominantly developed along motorways with large areas of open space surrounding them. The stadia in Lisbon and Oporto are spectacular. However, if you think the redevelopment of Lansdowne is hampered by space, its worth taking a look at the stadium in Braga. It was practically built in the mountains, with a cliff-face behind the goals! Some of the stadia already built for next year's World Cup are excellent. Out of the 12 stadia to be used for the World Cup, 10 could be considered enclosed bowl-type designs. Nonetheless, a bowl-type design is not always the best form of stadium. Take for example the Estadio Algarve which hosted games in Euro 2004 or Stadium Australia which hosted probably the best Olympics ever in 2000. Although there is a huge difference in capacity, both of these have dominant stands on either side with open seating at the ends, which create a great atmosphere.
very intresting stuff T.J.P.M. I agree with what you say about Croker. Its so big and yet the crowd is quite most of the time.
I just hope that the new lansdowne road will not look like a typical anglo saxon design with square edges that are very unpleasing to the eye. I think there are plans to having a TV screen in the stadium as well
The stand behind Havelock Square is the south stand. How does the east stand affect light in Havelock square?
It was the southern part of the East Stand that I was talking about (ie. towards the Havelock Square end of the ground). The reason the top tier of the current East Stand does not run the full length of the pitch in Lansdowne is because the local residents (in Ringsend?) to the north-east felt that it would block their light. This is probably true as afternoon and evening sunlight would fail to reach this low-rise residential area. The plans for the new Lansdowne try to mitigate the effects of shadow on this area, while maintaining the height of the southern part of the East Stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
they should dig into the ground and lower the level of the pitch like what they did at Man City.
I got the impression that (from the inside) it will be akin to say the City of Manchester Stadium.
How far from the mark am I?
So there's no question of them rotating where the pitch is?
I thought that'd be a good idea. There'd be loads of space if they got rid of at least one of the rugby pitches.
For years they spoke about rotating the pitch, thereby making use of the open space to the rear of the East Stand. I think the Millenium Stadium was built in a similar way with the old Cardiff Arms pitch being rotated, although I could be wrong. However, my understanding is that the playing field to the rear of the East Stand belongs to Wanderers RFC, not the IRFU. As far as I know, the new design is already encroaching onto Wanderers playing field. I might be wrong but I think the same playing field is/was zoned for public open space. From what I've heard the initial talks over redeveloping Lansdowne centred mainly on ownership rights. These talks established that the Lansdowne Road stadium and the playing field to the rear of the East Stand were separate land holdings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risteard
Prior to the Eircom Park project, the government set up a committee which would look into the feasability of a national stadium. The likes of Bernard O'Byrne and Liam Mulvihill of the GAA were on the committee, with members of the IRFU. They believed that the existing stadium and adjacent playing field offered an excellent opportunity to rotate the pitch and build an 80,000 all-seater stadium. However, the later difficulties concerning land-ownership and the subsequent constraints imposed by the lack of space will mean that the stadium will hold approximately 50,000.
The conceptual design of the new Lansdowne Road stadium will be unveiled today, I cant wait to see it !! :)Quote:
Lansdowne: the problems
COST The initial cost of leasing Lansdowne Road from the Pembroke Estate back in 1908 was £50 per annum. How things have changed. The cost of revamping the stadium will be around €360m, some €65m more than first announced.
However, both the IRFU and FAI have assured the government that no extra cost will be incurred by the taxpayer, claiming that they will be able to increase their respective contributions by €35m each.
As it stands the government will be contributing €191m to the project. The IRFU have committed around €100m and the FAI €66m. John Delaney has proposed that the money can be raised through the sale of 10-year corporate tickets and he does not anticipate any borrowing.
CORPORATE The corporate world is where the FAI has targeted most, if not all of their energy, in raising the funds required. In revised plans the number and cost of corporate boxes, premium-level seats and corporate facilities have been increased.
A patron who purchases such a ticket for the redeveloped Lansdowne can expect to cough up in the region of €7200. A similar privilege at the new Wembley Stadium will cost you €12000, while anyone who already owns a ticket in Croke Park has paid €7,500.
Economics dictate this strategy is pursued, but our prawn sandwich-munching corporate friends are a fickle bunch. If results are not going well then they are generally the first to turn their back.
CONTRACTS In light of recent catastrophes in the awarding of contracts for major projects, tendering of this process had to be seen to be competitive.
In April Minister John O'Donoghue announced HOK Sport Architecture and PM Ltd as the design and project management teams respectively and these have since been engaged with planning consultant Tom Phillips in the whole process.
The CVs of both teams are impressive. PM is involved in the redevelopment of Wembley Stadium and Twickenham, while HOK Sports are one of the world's largest sports architectural practices. They are also involved in the Wembley project as well as Arsenal's new stadium. Other projects they were involved in are the Millennium Stadium, Croke Park and the upgrades of Ascot and Cheltenham racecourses.
IMPACT As part of the planning process project management and design teams will have to submit an independent Environmental Impact Study.
The two major issues that will affect the local community and general public at large are the potential height of the stadium and the inevitable disruption to DART and inter-city rail services.
On the former issue, increased provisions for corporate seating may increase the height of the new East and West stands, which would further impact on local residents' quality of life.
Of the latter, part of the existing plan - which may be quite different after today - is to provide an underground exit from the stadium which will avoid the severe congestion which occurs around Lansdowne Road DART station after a game.
CROKE PARK The decision of the GAA to open the hallowed gates of Croke Park to other sports was obviously welcomed by everyone who has a love for Irish sport.
But will Ireland's decline in the FIFA World rankings affect the profitability of the Irish team playing at GAA HQ? Attendance figures of 25,000 have been mooted as the threshold of productivity for a match at Croke Park and if Ireland can't attract the big names of world football anymore for friendlies then the FAI could be facing problems.
TIMESCALE As of now the redevelopment is on schedule and management teams are set to lodge a planning application by the end of this year. If the various studies and debate proceed smoothly, construction could commence in 2007. The stadium is expected to take 27 months to complete.
From today, though, when a revised conceptual design is released, the real fun and games can start. It will take all the skill and effort of everyone involved to deliver this project on time and on budget.
In such a built-up area a plethora of planning issues are likely to be faced. The ability of the FAI to generate the capital needed solely from the sale of ten-year tickets is also an area of concern.
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=13146
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
I should just sneank onto the block booking list then
Not necessarily. As far as I know the current block booking allocation may actually decrease. The FAI seem keen to obtain a significant proportion of their income through the sale of corporate and ten-year seats.Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamo kerry
I think it;s the latter, but just to clarify:Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
Are we talking about a full roof here - like Amsterdam/Cardiff?
Or 4 stands all with roofs?
€7,000 for the 10 year tickets is outrageous!Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
Anyone who's willing to pay €700 a year for an average of 5 home games a year needs their head examined!
The designs for the stadium are online below.
http://www.lrsdc.ie/news/default.asp?NCID=50&NID=427
Looks great!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
wow, it looks modern... lets hope they can keep the old toilets :p
Quote:
MINISTER UNVEILS NEW DESIGN FOR LANSDOWNE STADIUM
17th October 2005
Confirmation that Application for Planning will be made in December
Mr John O’Donoghue, TD, Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism unveiled the design for the new Lansdowne Road Stadium at a function held earlier today, Monday 17th October, 2005, in Lansdowne Road. The design, which has been created by international stadia architects, HOK Sport Architecture, working with Ireland’s Scott Tallon Walker is for a 50,000 all seated stadium. Mr O’Donoghue also confirmed that plans are on schedule to lodge for planning permission in December of this year.
More images can be seen in our Media Gallery
The new design which has been created by the HOK/Scott Tallon Walker team has evolved over a four month period during which when the Design Team met with many of the different stakeholder groups involved in and impacted by the stadium.
The resultant design which is on four levels for three sides, sweeps down to one level at the North End to minimise the impact on those residents living in closest proximity to the stadium. The design also makes wide usage of both translucent and reflective materials all of which are designed to minimise the impact on the local area by reflecting as much light as possible.
Commenting on the design the Minister said "This is another major piece of sporting infrastructure in the city of Dublin which will be enjoyed by all Irish people. We can be proud of this imaginative and attractive design. It is a superb modern structure and one which I hope will come to be an icon for Irish rugby and soccer followers."
Speaking of the design Mr Philip Browne, Chairman of Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company, complimented the Design Team on what he said was a most innovative solution to the challenges they faced.
“This is a very different stadium to the one which we looked at in our original feasibility study. We believe the team has taken on board many of the concerns raised and have addressed them without compromising their design. They have also built in a great deal more facilities than we originally had hoped for. This in turn has given us a wider range of funding opportunities.”
“As we have already indicated the budget for the stadium will be €365 million (€321 plus VAT). Given the additional funding opportunities through the provision of additional premium seats and corporate facilities the IRFU and the FAI are confident that the additional monies needed will be raised by the two associations. As you know, the Government is providing a generous contribution of €191 million.”
Speaking on behalf of HOK Sport Architecture the Senior Principal, Rod Sheard, said: "The new Lansdowne Road Stadium is a design for the 21st Century, symbolising the positive future for sport in Ireland. It will be a sporting and entertainment venue that provides facilities and comfort levels comparable to the best in the world."
" The stadium has been designed to be distinctive and to complement its setting in the heart of the city, creating a national stadium which will be globally recognisable as the home of Irish Rugby and Football."
Christopher Lee, HOK Sport Architecture’s Design Principal added: “Reflecting the colour of the sky and light conditions, the building’s façade will be ever changing. The undulating transparent form of the new Lansdowne Road stadium will be an ephemeral addition to the skyline of Dublin."
The PM is right, the amount of tickets available to those on the block booking list is not due to increase with the new stadium. Most of the extra seats will be for corporate tickets. We can't really complain either cos without the corporates we won't have a stadium.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJamaicanP.M.
If you're reasonably high on the list you'll probably get on it in the next year or two anyway because alot of people will drop off the actual list because of the year of friendlies ahead.
I think the reason they cannot rotate the stadium is that can't have large stand at the north terrace - Havelock Square side.
Interesting that will have 4 tiers in 3 sides but only 1 on the north side. Pictures make it very hard to imagine what will be like.
If they can build on time & in budget then will be good value by irish standards. I can't imagine that can be any valid planning delays as surely the designers have been talking to residents & the design must have been sounded out with them? They could close the entrance at the Havelock Square side in exchange for residents backing?
what does everyone think about the way it drops down to just one tier ? I guess thats where we can stick the away supporters but will it look right ?
Very impressed.
Is that the only picture?
When are ye thinking it'll be ready?
2010?
This is Ireland.
Expect delays and cost over-runs.
I think it looks class. Hopefully we'll be playing in it in the run up to 2010 World Cup. I don't know the ins and outs of planning but surely if they have been consulting residents in the design there shouldn't be many objections?
1 year of planning and under 2 years of construction after that. So 2009 is the expected completion date. I reckon if they can square away the planning procedure without any hick ups then they will deliver the stadium on time. Stadia are easy enough to build compared to LUAS or tunnels.
It will be class to play the Ericom league cup finals there and all those international games ! Roll on 2009
http://www.lrsdc.ie/gallery/photocategory.asp?PCID=34Quote:
Originally Posted by Risteard