Bulgaria V Ireland (Pre Match Thread)

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03/06/2009, 1:54 PM
NeilMcD

No other alternative at the moment. If you were to go around through life wondering what is the worst case scenario all the time you would never leave the house. Must be terrible being a pessimist.
03/06/2009, 2:04 PM
Duggie

we could push o'shea up into midfield possibly ?? given the fact that gibson is out aswell.
03/06/2009, 2:13 PM
shakermaker1982

I'd rather have Miller than O'Shea in the centre of midfield. Lawrence should be able to do a job in the centre as well if asked?
03/06/2009, 2:20 PM
weldoninhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

If he's going to play Hunt AND Duff then I'd prefer to see Duff on the left. He's one of our real danger men and needs to be played in his proper position.

Anyway I'd start with this:

Given

O'Shea St Ledger Dunne Kilbane

Hunt Andrews Whelan Duffer

Keane Folan

Bring on McGeady and Best when the sun starts to sap the strength from both teams. I told Karl Spain outside the Cottage on Friday it would be 1-1 but I hope I'm wrong.......if we win this then we can top the group.

"Karl Spain" - I think you dropped this
03/06/2009, 2:24 PM
Den Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I was thinking about Lawrence over McGeady too (marginal call), but I'd have had McGeady over Hunt.

I wonder will Folan's presence make it easier for Hunt / McGeady & Duff to find their man in the box, or create space for them to find others. Same thing from set pieces. In fact we could now have Folan, St. Ledger, O'Shea and Folan to offer a threat from set-pieces.

Doyle is good in the air but just isn't the potential handful that Folan could be if he plays well. They offer very different options.

I'd have Tony Galvin over hunt
03/06/2009, 2:26 PM
Den Perry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Hunt had an excellent game against the world champs away from home in a competitive game. He should be in the driving seat for the right midfield position. The best way of keeping Petrov "at home" is by letting Hunt do what he did in Bari. Skin the oppositions full back and win free kicks in dangerous positions.

I was at that game and while Hunt did cause problems, people are way over exagerrating his performance. Tevhnically he is is poor and has the brains of a bird
03/06/2009, 2:42 PM
weldoninhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

No other alternative at the moment. If you were to go around through life wondering what is the worst case scenario all the time you would never leave the house. Must be terrible being a pessimist.

NO. OTHER. ALTERNATIVE. ?????

The Republic Of Ireland International Football Team has no other alternative in midfield than a player who was released by Sunderland for not being up to Premiership standard, then was released by midtable, mediocre QPR for not being up to midtable Championship quality.

Now i know if i roll out names like Owen Garvan, James McCarthy, John Joe O'Toole, Steven Quinn or Stephen McPhail, who have all had solid, if unspectacular seasons in the Championship/SPL, i'll be told that they are untried or untested in a game of this importance.

But so was sledge until last friday!! The only way someone can go from being untried is to try them and untested is to test them. I don't think enough players have been looked at by Trappaponi to get us through an injury crisis or suspensions.

And thats without mentioning proven internationals like AR or LC who can both play centre mid.

I know he was trying to build a core group etc. etc. etc, but nowadays football is very much a squad game. And whilst Traps core XI have done a decent job for him so far he has not developed the squad enough.
03/06/2009, 2:47 PM
Noelys Guitar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den Perry

I was at that game and while Hunt did cause problems, people are way over exagerrating his performance. Tevhnically he is is poor and has the brains of a bird

I won't repeat Brian Clough's comments about what makes a good footballer. Trap is going on what he sees and Hunt was one of our best players against Italy. I like everyone else on here wish Hunt's distribution was better (that goes for Duff and McGeady re dead ball situations). But we have to go with what worked away in our last competitive game. Hunt never disappears in games and we will need strong characters in Bulgaria. I am hoping for a 1991 away to Turkey type performance. I can't see Petrov being allowed the space he got in Croker. And I feel with Folan and Keane we can score 2 goals. Remember Doyle won almost everything in the air against the Bulgarians and I feel Folan can do the same.
03/06/2009, 2:49 PM
NeilMcD

Quote:

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

NO. OTHER. ALTERNATIVE. ?????

The Republic Of Ireland International Football Team has no other alternative in midfield than a player who was released by Sunderland for not being up to Premiership standard, then was released by midtable, mediocre QPR for not being up to midtable Championship quality.

Now i know if i roll out names like Owen Garvan, James McCarthy, John Joe O'Toole, Steven Quinn or Stephen McPhail, who have all had solid, if unspectacular seasons in the Championship/SPL, i'll be told that they are untried or untested in a game of this importance.

But so was sledge until last friday!! The only way someone can go from being untried is to try them and untested is to test them. I don't think enough players have been looked at by Trappaponi to get us through an injury crisis or suspensions.

And thats without mentioning proven internationals like AR or LC who can both play centre mid.

I know he was trying to build a core group etc. etc. etc, but nowadays football is very much a squad game. And whilst Traps core XI have done a decent job for him so far he has not developed the squad enough.

Ahhh get off your hobby horse you know what I mean. Miller is the only other central midfielder in the squad he is not going to call up any of the guys you say and play them ahead of Miller.
03/06/2009, 2:55 PM
Duggie

if were looking to win the game mcgeady has the ability to open up a defence with his good technical ability, one touch feet. hunt hasnt got that ability. im thinking back to the montenegro game when he was desperate, his passing was kack that night along with his deaball delivery. aghhhhhhh i want mcgeady in my team.
03/06/2009, 3:11 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Hunt never disappears in games

He disappeared down the tunnel in Prague :)
03/06/2009, 3:12 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Lawrence should be able to do a job in the centre if asked?

That's what I've often thought.
03/06/2009, 3:24 PM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

whilst Traps core XI have done a decent job for him so far he has not developed the squad enough.

In fairness Andrews was brought through by Trap and SSL and Folan are likely starters on Saturday - both brought through by Trap.

Gibson's injury prompted him to look at Miller and giving credit to him he impressed on Friday, doing everything I like to see in a midfielder.

Andy Reid is an old debate - we can only guess why he's been left out but that's the way it is. Carsley is not the answer in my opinion and while I'm optimistic about the young bucks there haven't really been opportunities to test them. It's also important to make sure that the Whelan / Andrews partnership develops so they've needed time together.

I think Trap has been slow to develop the squad but I think it's going the right way. I doubt Gibson's absence will be a telling factor on Saturday.
03/06/2009, 3:27 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den Perry

I'd have Tony Galvin over hunt

I'd have Tom instead
03/06/2009, 3:29 PM
corkboy360

Thunder storms and showers there today my Dad said.:DWhile we have the sun.That eases the pain of missing out on the trip because of exams a small bit.
03/06/2009, 3:31 PM
Duggie

Quote:

Originally Posted by corkboy360

Thunder storms and showers there today my Dad said.:DWhile we have the sun.That eases the pain of missing out on the trip because of exams a small bit.

prefer that than sweltering heat for our boys on sat
03/06/2009, 3:32 PM
paul_oshea

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

In fairness Andrews was brought through by Trap and SSL and Folan are likely starters on Saturday - both brought through by Trap.

Gibson's injury prompted him to look at Miller and giving credit to him he impressed on Friday, doing everything I like to see in a midfielder.

Andy Reid is an old debate - we can only guess why he's been left out but that's the way it is. Carsley is not the answer in my opinion and while I'm optimistic about the young bucks there haven't really been opportunities to test them. It's also important to make sure that the Whelan / Andrews partnership develops so they've needed time together.

I think Trap has been slow to develop the squad but I think it's going the right way. I doubt Gibson's absence will be a telling factor on Saturday.

Shouldn't, rather than doubt. I hope shouldn't is the case also.
03/06/2009, 3:41 PM
corkboy360

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggie

prefer that than sweltering heat for our boys on sat

That's true
was there last year and when it rains it really does pour:D. At least the Irish lads would be more used to it.
03/06/2009, 3:50 PM
hunt4the

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishultra

O'Shea is a european cup finalist starter so he is a proper player

complete and utter rubbish, how many years did we watch him embarrass himself in the green jersey, o'shea isnt fit to lace duffs boots imo
03/06/2009, 4:36 PM
Scram

Quote:

Originally Posted by corkboy360

Thunder storms and showers there today my Dad said.:DWhile we have the sun.That eases the pain of missing out on the trip because of exams a small bit.

Message from Da: Get of d'internet and back to your fcek!n books or you won't be watching the game at all!
03/06/2009, 4:44 PM
Brendan 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunt4the

complete and utter rubbish, how many years did we watch him embarrass himself in the green jersey, o'shea isnt fit to lace duffs boots imo

I love that Hall & Oates song...."Your out of touch"
03/06/2009, 5:11 PM
weldoninhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Ahhh get off your hobby horse you know what I mean. Miller is the only other central midfielder in the squad he is not going to call up any of the guys you say and play them ahead of Miller.

My point exactly!!
03/06/2009, 5:19 PM
NeilMcD

Thats another discussion. The question, was what do we do if Wheland does not make it and I said that Miller plays. I would not have him as the 3rd choice midfielder in the squad but thats where we are and Trap knows way more about football than I do.
03/06/2009, 7:27 PM
irishfan86

Well, I've been critical of Miller in the past, but his performance against Nigeria has made me feel a bit better about his presence in the squad.

On current form, the likes of Chris McCann should be in the squad, but in terms of experience and accomplishments, Miller has the edge over McCann.

He has played Champions' League matches, played a key role in helping Sunderland to promotion, and has played 20 matches with the international side.

The gap in ability is not as wide as some would think, and there is something to be said about a 28 year old versus a 20 year old when we're playing an away game in a hostile environment.
03/06/2009, 7:30 PM
Stuttgart88

I couldn't imagine me saying anything positive about Miller a week ago but I think you're absolutely right.
03/06/2009, 7:56 PM
richieos

according to TOD on rte news, whelan and keane are expected to be fit, given wasnt even mentioned so one can assume he'll be fit too
03/06/2009, 7:57 PM
NeilMcD

Yeah both Keane and Whelan trained. Dunne did not train but that was just as a pre caution.
03/06/2009, 9:37 PM
weldoninhio

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishfan86

Well, I've been critical of Miller in the past, but his performance against Nigeria has made me feel a bit better about his presence in the squad.

On current form, the likes of Chris McCann should be in the squad, but in terms of experience and accomplishments, Miller has the edge over McCann.

He has played Champions' League matches, played a key role in helping Sunderland to promotion, and has played 20 matches with the international side.

The gap in ability is not as wide as some would think, and there is something to be said about a 28 year old versus a 20 year old when we're playing an away game in a hostile environment.

We played against Nigerias second or even third string team. To rebut your arguement, Chris McCann played a big part in helping Burnley to gain promotion to the Premiership, Liam Miller was deemed not worthy of a contract at mid table QPR. What Miller has done in the past is irrelevant, the match he is in the squad for is this Saturday, in the year 2009 not 2006/7.
03/06/2009, 9:38 PM
Superhoops

Quote:

Originally Posted by richieos

according to TOD on rte news, whelan and keane are expected to be fit, given wasnt even mentioned so one can assume he'll be fit too

I have a bad feeling that everything is not OK with Shay. Too quiet for my liking after all the ballyhoo about him playing at Fulham. Why the late call up for 2 keepers if we only need 1 to travel to cover Shay? If both Henderson and Doyle travel then we have to assume Shay is not 100% and they are hoping he will have enough time to be match fit. Hope I'm totally wrong.
03/06/2009, 9:56 PM
irishfan86

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superhoops

I have a bad feeling that everything is not OK with Shay. Too quiet for my liking after all the ballyhoo about him playing at Fulham. Why the late call up for 2 keepers if we only need 1 to travel to cover Shay? If both Henderson and Doyle travel then we have to assume Shay is not 100% and they are hoping he will have enough time to be match fit. Hope I'm totally wrong.

Almost all international squads travel with three keepers, so I don't think that's cause for concern.

I'm sure Shay is fine, and when he sat out the training match the other day, it was probably so that Trap could watch the other two guys who he has had little exposure to as of yet.
03/06/2009, 10:02 PM
Paddy Garcia

Quote:

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

We played against Nigerias second or even third string team. To rebut your arguement, Chris McCann played a big part in helping Burnley to gain promotion to the Premiership, Liam Miller was deemed not worthy of a contract at mid table QPR. What Miller has done in the past is irrelevant, the match he is in the squad for is this Saturday, in the year 2009 not 2006/7.

Agree McCann is our in form central midfielder.
03/06/2009, 10:28 PM
eirebhoy

The thing with Miller is, judging by his performance against Nigeria, that he's best as the deep midfielder. His last 2 games have been beside Whelan and 2 before that Carsley who would have been playing that role. He's not a great player, decent, but probably isn't suited to playing beside someone like Whelan.
03/06/2009, 10:51 PM
Jicked

Quote:

Originally Posted by weldoninhio

What Miller has done in the past is irrelevant, the match he is in the squad for is this Saturday, in the year 2009 not 2006/7.

That's is absolutely ludicrous. Yeah, of course experience has no part to play in a crunch, away international fixtures. :rolleyes:

No manager in their right mind would forget about Miller's experience playing and training with some of the best players in the world, playing in international and Champions League games and having years of playing Premier League and Championship football behind him.
But sure, throw John Joe O'Toole in there because he played well for the U-21s about six months ago and I'm sure he's learnt a lot under Kevin Blackwell (I noticed O'Toole wasn't even in the squad for the play off semi or final, was he injured?) You have to love armchair managers.
04/06/2009, 7:10 AM
Stuttgart88

Is McCann even fit? He went off with a bad looking knock after only 25 minutes at Wembley.

Jicked - JJOT was injured.

Don't you just love Weldoninhio's cheery outlook? Nigeria's second or third string team? Didn't a lot of the same team beat a French XI in France straight afterwards? We played pretty much our own second string team against Nigeria.

Glenn Whelan is fit so it's all immaterial anyway.

Next topic to be miserable and pessimistic about?
04/06/2009, 7:12 AM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

The thing with Miller is, judging by his performance against Nigeria, that he's best as the deep midfielder. His last 2 games have been beside Whelan and 2 before that Carsley who would have been playing that role. He's not a great player, decent, but probably isn't suited to playing beside someone like Whelan.

Yep, I think he & Andrews complemented each other better.
04/06/2009, 7:34 AM
Scram

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Yep, I think he & Andrews complemented each other better.

Absolutely, before kick off I heard Andrews say "nice new boots Liam" and Miller say "ooh, and I love the way you fill your shorts Keith "

:)
04/06/2009, 7:54 AM
Sumac

On radio this morning it said that Dunne is a risk - injury not clearing up - would be a massive loss
04/06/2009, 8:00 AM
hunt4the

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brendan 82

I love that Hall & Oates song...."Your out of touch"

I love that song "fickle fan with short term memory loss".
have you ever seen them play? You musn't have.
Duff was our best player at home v cyprus not that long ago
but long enough for you to have forgotten
04/06/2009, 9:06 AM
Stuttgart88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumac

On radio this morning it said that Dunne is a risk - injury not clearing up - would be a massive loss

Which station?

The impression I got from the papers is that none of the injuries was a serious concern. This'd be bad alright.

Dunne seems to be leading a rallying call for this game.
04/06/2009, 9:08 AM
Drumcondra 69er

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superhoops

I have a bad feeling that everything is not OK with Shay. Too quiet for my liking after all the ballyhoo about him playing at Fulham. Why the late call up for 2 keepers if we only need 1 to travel to cover Shay? If both Henderson and Doyle travel then we have to assume Shay is not 100% and they are hoping he will have enough time to be match fit. Hope I'm totally wrong.

One keeper gets injured in training the day before the game. Back up keeper gets sent off for a handball outside the area in the first minute of the match. Extremely unlikely but you need 3 keepers just in case so I think you're reading too much into that.

I'm more concerned over the fact that Given along with Dunne, Keane and Folan all sat out yesterday, hoping it's just precauntionary but am looking forward to the first reports back from this morning's session confirming all took part.

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