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Wow you pick out the partnership where I state 'Cesc and whatever rubbish player Wenger puts alongside him' and call me on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
I'm starting to believe you're not cut up about Utd losing tonight alright :rolleyes: :D
Only 18 months ago, and I thiink you'll find I said Iniesta was one of the top 5 midfielders in europe...Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Agree with jebus on Scholes. He has to be one of the worst foulers in the game and he seems to get away with an awful lot of reckless tackles.
Barca were outstanding tonight, thoroughly deserving winners. I guess that settles it for who's the best team in the world at the moment.
Two brilliant finishes in the game. I think people are being very hard on Vidic as dozens of defenders fall for that move week in, week out.
Man U were fairly average. They never seemed to have anything in an attacking sense tonight. After the first goal, the only chance I remember is Giggs kicking the ball against his own man. I was surprised by how far behind Barca Man U were/are. After all the talk about Barca's defence, they stood up to what Man U had tonight and it never seemed like they'd score.
Hargreaves isn't going to be available and even then Carrick would push him as a starter in fergie's eyes I think. Fletch was a big loss for them alright, and actually wait, I'd have Basquets over Anderson from what I've seen of him to go back to your original pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Shall we change the thread title 'We're Not Worthy'? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Yes please. Fairly apt given the performance of Iniesta and Xavi, no?
YOu do not get it. I am disagreeing with your OTT comments about Man Utd and some of their players. Barca were a joy to watch and I could watch Iniesta and Xavi and Messi all day. A joy to watch but you believe what you want to believe.Just like I would not dismiss Barca and Messi when Utd beat them last year I would not do the same with Man Utd and the Man Utd players you mention this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Agreed Dodge. :)
I will. And you responded to my criticisms of the majority of United's players on tonight's performance by going on about the last few seasons for some odd reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
That's what you don't get
eh Carrick Giggs, Anderson and Berbatov you made damning judgements on and not just commented on tonights game. Your comments on Rooney, Ferdinand, Vidic and Evra were about tonights game the others were not.
4 players, two of them squad players and one of them who has just arrived this season and you respond by going on about their success in 2007 and 2008?Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Not to mention that Berbatov has hardly been a key member in their title winning squad, in fact most United fans I know would say he has been more of a hinderence than anything as he slows United's free flowing game down. Giggs is a 20 minute sub and thats it, the fact that he's come on as a sub in most of his appearances this season kinda makes that a fact and Carrick and Anderson, well I stand by my comments on them.
You're convincing me more and more that you're not cut up about the loss tonight though :rolleyes::D
Oh and I didn't realise that United only had 8 players on the park by your count. Schoolboy error by United! Fergie Out!
Berbatov 10 assists and 9 goals for Man Utd this season. Take them out and they would not have won the league. Anyway I am deligthed that Barca won the league over many other teams but I will admit that any Irish player who is playing in a champions League final I will cheer for them. Shoot me for that. If you are an ABU that is not my problem. I think the point about tonight is that Barca were great and Man Utd were not at the races but to reach any conclusive decisions or opinions on any of the players based on tonights performance, and thats including Anderson Carrick and Giggs, is stupid, esp coming from a guy who did not rate Iniesta 2 years ago when he was a great player then.
Of course, because they'd have been playing with 10 men. Stick nearly anyone into his position and they'd have done just as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
How many of those 10 goals were winners?
I do not have the stats at hand but I think most of his goals and assists came in the run where they were winning games 1-0 and keeping lots of clean sheets. I am sure somebody could find this out but Berbatov had a huge impact on a large amount of points this season for Man Utd. He is a lazy ****e and for the last 2 months he has not been on form since his injury but for people to dismiss him and say he should be sold is a joke, esp when they are the same person who does not rate Iniesta in the top 55 players in 2007. I seem to remember Pires bein rubbish when he first joined ArsenalQuote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Arsenal dind't spend a fortune on pires and it was his frst season in England.
Berbatov shouldn't really have any excuses
Iniesta is in the top 3 players in the world imo. Probably the second best player in the world this year, behind messi. He has everything. People were saying that fabregas should have been starting for spain but he hasn't a patch on xavi or iniesta. They absolutely ran the show today, made bits of anderson and Carrick. United were chasing shadows and couldn't get their front men on the ball. Everyone was harping on about Barca's defense (I myself was worried they would cost barca) but in the end they hardly even needed a defense.
Delighted to see barca win tbh.
Captain Hindsight rears his head I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Dodge was the only one that disagreed with me in that thread, so there must have been some validity in me saying that Iniesta wasn't one of the best midfield players in the 2006/07 season, can't quite remember what he did or did not do that year tbf and I doubt you do either
to wish congratulations to Barcelona would do them a massive disservice, they are simpley one of the best teams I have ever watched play the beautiful game. United spent the first 15-20 minutes in possession, Barcelona spent the rest of the game teaching them a lesson in possession football. Simple, short, incisive passes, building towards creating a chance on goal, with the best player in the world left to do what he does better than anyone else.
Just amazing. Anyone who's spent the time since the game arguing about whether or not Fletcher would have made a difference, or if Berbatov should have started is out of order.
No team could have stopped Guardiola's men tonight, they are that good.
I think tonights performance showed that United are still missing that gritty midfielder to get in the face of opposition. Fletcher has it to a certain degree but still is quite soft and def think United would have had more control in the middle if he wasn't banned. Carrick, Scholes and Anderson can't even spell tackle let alone make one. For the first goal Carrick ran alongside a Barca player for maybe 10-15 yards and didn't even stick a foot in....who d f**k does that!!!!:mad: But that wasn't the only instance, for the whole game United were backing off and only attempted making a tackle around the 18yard box which is absolutely nuts considering the attacking ability of Barca. And Messi one of the smallest men on the field managed to jump between 3 defenders all ranging in 6ft height for second goal!!:eek:
Overall best team won. Utd let it go way too easily. No spirit, no determination, no heart everything Barca had. The likes of Ronaldo, Rooney and Park could not breach the makeshift defence of Barca either which you would expect but it wasn't happening! O' Shea was the best United player on the pitch tonight, didn't give anyone much a sniff!
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
While I agree they are great team, the bit in bold is untrue imo. Chelsea more than matched barca in the semis and were very unlucky to go out.
Yeh British and Irish people can talk about lack of technique all they want but passing ability is mainly down to intelligence. Technique is a born talent. Gerrard, Carrick, Beckham and others are some of the most technical in the world. They can all pass a 60 yarder very accurately. But they're not on Xavi and Iniesta's level with passing because of the coaching they received.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kildare Lad
yes the same dunphy who fancied utd to win before match and even admitted he backed them to win game last night not very smart on a team that are a shambles :DQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
paul scholes has always been a bad tackler but to call him a hacker is crazy :mad: been one of utds & preimer league best players for last number of years and 10 preimer league titles , 2 champions league titles and a few f.a cups not bad for a hackerQuote:
Originally Posted by jebus
:p
but out they went :D .... think on a one of match / final like last night chelsea would have been beaten last night alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by Rovers fan
Becareful praising Kuyt on this site;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
As a United fan I have to say I'm very dissapointed. Ya its hard to take losing but I have to say Barca were unstoppable last night, sheer class. Xavi and Iniesta are unreal. Its hard to take such a poor performance but these things happen. You have good games and bad games and United just didnt show up last night. "Fans" on your on sky sports last night were calling for Fergie to be sacked, they should never be let grace the red shirt of Man United ever again. Them comments were an absoulte disgrace. Hats off to Barca, worthy champions!
GGMU, Keep the red flag flying high!
Best side won not much more to say is there. On a side note delighted for Evra! Men against babies last night hey Evra:D
Just admit it, your sitting at your computer wearing your treble shirt from 1999 with neville on the back, and blubbering all over the keyboard, from the posts you've put up ur defo a man u fan. My condolences :oQuote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
:d:d:d:dQuote:
Originally Posted by hunt4the
Barca were excellent and worthy winners.
I think Fergie was too slow in reacting to Guardiola's positional change and emphasis on how they'd attack. Fergie expected the majority of Barca's attacking play to come from the wings via Messi and Henry. Consequently he had Rooney and Park as the workhorses to track back and help out the full backs when required. Instead Barca just cut United to pieces down the middle like a knife through butter. Messi was in a central position for most of the night and Xavi and Iniesta were making Giggs and Carrick look slow and ponderous. I think Anderson should have stayed on (scapegoat - Giggs and Carrick were more worthy candidates to come off) with Scholes brought on much earlier. The decent only performer from a Man Utd perspective was Van Der Sar. Ronaldo looked dangerous early on but once Barca scored he couldn't get hold of the ball because Carrick thought long aimless balls into touch was the way forward. O'Shea was solid enough but needs to work on stopping crosses coming in to dangerous areas. The rest of the team were way below par. I think if Fergie was given the opportunity to play the match again he'd have started with Tevez and tried to press the Barca back 4 into mistakes if possible.
After sitting through nearly 2 hours of pre match build up from Redknapp, Souness and Gray creaming themselves over the PL's superiority I had to smile at the end when Redknapp comes out with "maybe the Premier League int as good as we thought. Know what I mean Ruud?" ******. No - it's just you and your buddies who think the Premiership is God's gift to mankind. The rest of the world hopefully realise that there are some fantastic players and sides out there who can play football and have techinical ability to match the best if given the platform to shine.
I disagree. Some players like Rooney never had to be taught technique apparently, he just had it instinctively. But that's a rarity - technique is definitely taught, talent is what you're born with.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Footballing intelligence is innate but can also be developed - as you say, repetition of "receive, pass, show" teaches the right habits. I played with players with technique and talent but no footballing intelligence.
What use is it if you've a great first touch and accurate passing if you haven't the wit to determine the right pass, or to find space to receive a pass, or just generally can't read situations?
Iniesta during the week was talking about the training he received all throughout his development at Barcelona. He said he was taught three basic things.
"Receive, pass, offer... receive, pass, offer"
Something Johnny Giles has been preaching for as long as I've been watching TV
Barca always play that way. They always play through Xavi and Iniesta. Ferguson specifically picked the defensive Anderson to counteract this.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
It didn't work out...
Correct. However, I dont think any other side in Europe would have been able to live with Barca last night. Liverpool would have put them under more pressure in the midflield ala Chelsea but Barca's quality would have shone through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa B
Messi is the best player in the world. I hope everyone can agree on this now. Ronaldo is a world class player but no where near the best in the world.
If Barca invest in some solid defenders this summer, they will dominate Spain and the CL for the next few seasons.
This drives me crazy. I'll be encountering this same very problem later on today. People wandering out of position or watching the opposition run past them and they just let them go. Moving into space to receive a pass is also one step too far for some of the players I play with or against! Don't get me wrong I'm no Franz Beckenbauer but I'd like to think I have a bit of a football brain. I just need to work on technique and ability! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Xavi and Iniesta will eventually get the ball wide out to Messi and Henry though (more times than not). Xavi and Iniesta are the heart beat of the side but their goals and attacking menace comes from the flanks. That was not the case last night. Instead it was Iniesta and Xavi constantly running at the two centre backs. I was surprised that Fergie didn't try to shore up the centre of midfield once they went behind just to try and tame Barca for a little while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Anderson has energy but I wouldn't say he is defensive. Carrick is normally the player expected to sweep up in midfield and protect the two centre backs if there is no Fletcher or Hargreaves.
Messi, henry and Eto'o cut inside. The only real width on Barca's team is Alves, and with Puyol replacing him (magnificently) their was never going to be attacks down the flanks.
I never said they attack 'down the flanks' as in a team with traditional wingers or attacking full backs. Messi/Henry/Eto cut inside but they start out from a wide position hence the danger from wide positions comment. As soon as they touch the ball they are engaging with the full back and Fergie made the assumption that they would get the ball out wide as per the norm so Messi and Henry could do their thing. I cannot remember Messi cutting back inside from the right last night. I might be wrong. The game is is a blur!
I let my head rule the heart last night, and lumped a lot of money on Man Utd, damn , damn, damn
Barca were a joy to watch, and this win is definitely great for the game.
Iniesta and Xavi were ace, and it really was a toss up on who would get MOTM from them, Toure and Pique were great in defence (proving what I said earlier in another thread that they wouldnt miss their reg CD's), and Messi is a joy to watch. Cant wait foir next years world cup.:)
As for Man Utd, Ferguson got it totally wrong. What the hell is Park doing on the pitch, he is rubbish - and have a player like Tevez on the bench.
And I had to laugh when he brought on Berbatov - jesus what an awful substituitn, and Scholes on for 15 mins!!!!!!:eek:
Agree with Jebus - dont rate Carrick at all
The normally strong united defence let them down badly last night, but IMHO O'Shea was uniteds best player!
If you ever saw his Irish team, it was receive, side pass, offer... receive, back pass, offer...receive, side pass, offer... receive, back pass, offer..lose possession..goal to the opposition! Terrible stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
How many of the Man U players were British/Irish? Few. So it has nothing to do with inate skill or continental coaching. Man U (who have been struggling over the past 3 months by their standards) were beaten by the better side on the night. If Barca played Man U 3 months ago, Man U would have won.
A triumph for Guardiola/Barcelona who let big names Ronaldinhio and Deco go
and didn't replace them.
Did they make any big signings this year? Don't think they have really splashed the cash since they signed Henry?
This intelligent change of emphasis on approach contrasts with Reals buy buy strategy which looks set to continue this year.