Republic of Ireland V Poland - Wednesday, 19th November 2008 - Friendly

Shambles. The only reason for hope is our position in the group and I honestly think that is more to do with the fact that we got our relatively easy matches first. We got to play a difficult away game at a neutral venue with far more of our own fans (as opposed to Tblisi where Bulgaria and Cyprus both dropped points and the Scots fatally lost in the last campaign), we scraped a less than impressive point in tiny Montenegro and were seemingly happy about it and last but not least fluked an completely undeserved win over a Cyprus team missing a couple of key players. The crazy thing is a playoff spot might be as good as secured without doing anything impressive if we beat Georgia at home in February and get another bit of luck against an imploding Bulgarian team who lost 6-1 against Serbia last night and seem to have serious issues with their own manager, not to mention the injury to key player Martin Petrov.

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

Shambles. The only reason for hope is our position in the group and I honestly think that is more to do with the fact that we got our relatively easy matches first. We got to play a difficult away game at a neutral venue with far more of our own fans (as opposed to Tblisi where Bulgaria and Cyprus both dropped points and the Scots fatally lost in the last campaign), we scraped a less than impressive point in tiny Montenegro and were seemingly happy about it and last but not least fluked an completely undeserved win over a Cyprus team missing a couple of key players. The crazy thing is a playoff spot might be as good as secured without doing anything impressive if we beat Georgia at home in February and get another bit of luck against an imploding Bulgarian team who lost 6-1 against Serbia last night and seem to have serious issues with their own manager, not to mention the injury to key player Martin Petrov.

---

You are an utter mong. Italy scraped a win against Montengro, in Italy. Bulgaria needed a free kick with the last kick of the game to scrape a draw. We were largely comfortable throughout. The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about.

I can't wait to see what League One striker scores a few goals in the weeks before the Georgia game in February that leads to the teletext readers demanding his inclusion and labelling Trappatoni a disgrace for not picking him.

Am I the only one who thought Folan was useless last night? The ball bounced off him more often than not, and often he looked to be making a huge effort to get it someway under control yet he'd be dispossessed with absolute ease by the Polish defenders. He had a couple of decent openings, but it took so long to get the ball under control that the opening would be gone. It was like watching Conor Sammon again.

(And actually, I know I'm not the only one, as everyone around me came away with one main impression from the match, which was that Folan was rubbish).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

---

Who knows how Garvan and co would do? they might not be up to it either, u could be right there. Surely they are as entitled to a call up as Glenn Whelan and Darron Gibson though. These guys are nobody's but seem to have the places in CM cemented, especially Whelan who seems to be a key player in Trapps eyes, the guy is worse than useless with absolutely no potential to improve as far as I can see so why waste time with him. Gibson has been poor but I think was worth a call up, no ready yet though.

I only saw the brief RTE highlights, pity cause it looked like an interesting game.
A very good exposure to where we are at now.

Starting with Keogh was the most dubious, he is at best a good sub.
There was even nothing to learn from starting him at RM, we already knew that one.
CM lacks "personality", bite and presence.
As for the rest of the team, that's as good as it gets considering the couple of injuries.

Folan looked alright and Andrews has made a mark.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

---

FFS!!

we realise garvan and o toole's positions

but the point is that there is no point in trying to play a system with reserve team players

if you dont have the players to play the system for a friendly then just try something else ..a different system...its a friendly..friendlies are for experimentation


there will come a time in the group where a system change will be required ..... so why not try it in a friendly..NOT play 2 reserves in 2 defensive midfield positions...we already knwo thats does not work

try changing the system to adapt in new players

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

Who know how Garvan and co would do? they might not be up to it either, u could be right there. Surely they are as entitled to a call up as Glenn Whelan and Darron Gibson though. These guys are nobody's but seem to have the places in CM cemented, especially Whelan who seems to be a key player in Trapps eyes, the guy is worse than useless with absolutely no potential to improve as far as I can see so why waste time with him. Gibson has been poor but I think was worth a call up, no ready yet though.

---

Because Trappatoni has an idea, a plan. He wants to big defensive midfielders. Whelan hasn't been useless thus far, you're way, way off if you think so and I get the impression you don't watch a lot of football if you think so.

You're right, we don't know how Garvan and co would do. So do you recommend Trap picking a different XI every game, as that's what you seem to be suggesting. And its ludicrous. You can argue for Carsley or Andrews to come in to the midfield and do a holding job, but suggesting that John Joe O'Toole is going to make the difference between us and Italy, well you're mad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

You are an utter mong. Italy scraped a win against Montengro, in Italy. Bulgaria needed a free kick with the last kick of the game to scrape a draw. We were largely comfortable throughout. The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about.

I can't wait to see what League One striker scores a few goals in the weeks before the Georgia game in February that leads to the teletext readers demanding his inclusion and labelling Trappatoni a disgrace for not picking him.

---

We're not talking about Italy!! they're inability to hammer these team doesn't change the fact that we were poor against them.

"We were largely comfortable throughout"

What does this mean- we didn't even win the game so how could we be largely comfortable throughout. Oh yes I know, u mean that we never looked like losing the match but we were playing Montenegro so I was kind of hoping we might win the match. Plus it took a super save from Given late on to get us a point so I would have called that comfortable anyway.

"The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about."

Ok we had our chances too but they laid siege to our goal late on, and considering we were at home to minnows of intn football I'd expect a bit better.

As for the Lge 1 striker thing, that's just stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by back of the net

FFS!!

we realise garvan and o toole's positions

but the point is that there is no point in trying to play a system with reserve team players

if you dont have the players to play the system for a friendly then just try something else ..a different system...its a friendly..friendlies are for experimentation


there will come a time in the group where a system change will be required ..... so why not try it in a friendl..NOT play to reserves in 2 defensive midfield positions

---

And what will we learn from playing two attack minded 20 year olds against that Polish midfield? They'd have been swamped, completely overrun and we'd have been beaten a lot easier than we were. And then there'd be morons on here going mad that they got a cap just like the abuse Gibson got after his debut, and then these nobodys will be demanding some other poor schmuck gets a call up.

We have a way of playing, its going quite well so far. We're on course to qualify. We created plenty of chances last night, and conceded goals from a couple of defensive lapses that we havent shown in the previous six games. Calm down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

We're not talking about Italy!! they're inability to hammer these team doesn't change the fact that we were poor against them.

"We were largely comfortable throughout"

What does this mean- we didn't even win the game so how could we be largely comfortable throughout. Oh yes I know, u mean that we never looked like losing the match but we were playing Montenegro so I was kind of hoping we might win the match. Plus it took a super save from Given late on to get us a point so I would have called that comfortable anyway.

"The win against Cyprus wasn't completely undeserved, its just clear you haven't an iota what you are on about."

Ok we had our chances too but they laid siege to our goal late on, and considering we were at home to minnows of intn football I'd expect a bit better.

As for the Lge 1 striker thing, that's just stupid.

---

Oh good god. Are you saying anything other than a win away from home even against a difficult team like Montengro, who have run Italy and Bulgaria all the way, means it was a bad performance?!! Despite the fact we limited them and their dangerous attack to long range efforts.
Cyprus didn't lay siege to our goal. They had a couple of chances, one of which was a good chance. We survived easily enough and should have scored more than one ourselves. And these are the international minnows who played Italy off the park 4 days earlier. But hey, I bet you've never heard of any Cypriots or Montengrens on Match of the Day so they're probably rubbish and its a disgrace that the old bloke who can throw the ball really far isn't the first name on the teamsheet for Ireland.

Mod hat - Jicked, calm down please. There's other ways of arguing a point without calling people mongs or going down eh "Oh good God" route.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

Because Trappatoni has an idea, a plan. He wants to big defensive midfielders. Whelan hasn't been useless thus far, you're way, way off if you think so and I get the impression you don't watch a lot of football if you think so.

You're right, we don't know how Garvan and co would do. So do you recommend Trap picking a different XI every game, as that's what you seem to be suggesting. And its ludicrous. You can argue for Carsley or Andrews to come in to the midfield and do a holding job, but suggesting that John Joe O'Toole is going to make the difference between us and Italy, well you're mad.

---

I haven't mentioned John Joe O'Toole in one comment up until now and know f*ck all about him to be honest. I've seen Garvan and think he looks a class ahead of the two boys (GW&DG). I could be proved wrong. I watch plenty of soccer but don't get to see Whelan and Gibson all that often for obvious reasons.

lads anybody know what u win for getting picked for "nivea face in the crowd" at half time?

i thought the match was enjoyable the polish support was great and all the people who left early missed 3 goals

I'd say lots of Nivea stuff, at a guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

I'd say lots of Nivea stuff, at a guess.

---

Oh he will delighted so:) ive never watch ireland away from home are they supporters as vocal as the polish last night?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

Oh good god. Are you saying anything other than a win away from home even against a difficult team like Montengro, who have run Italy and Bulgaria all the way, means it was a bad performance?!! Despite the fact we limited them and their dangerous attack to long range efforts.
Cyprus didn't lay siege to our goal. They had a couple of chances, one of which was a good chance. We survived easily enough and should have scored more than one ourselves. And these are the international minnows who played Italy off the park 4 days earlier. But hey, I bet you've never heard of any Cypriots or Montengrens on Match of the Day so they're probably rubbish and its a disgrace that the old bloke who can throw the ball really far isn't the first name on the teamsheet for Ireland.

---

I would agree that a point away to Montenegro wasn't a complete disaster as they are clearly useful enough. The worst thing about that game is we never really threatened ourselves (although we should have had a pen or two) and to be fair I don't think they were completely unhappy with a point themselves. Like John Joe what's his face I haven't mentioned Delap either and don't think he should be in the team. The way I see it Whelan isn't good enough and will never be, not sure about Gibson but has done nothing yet, maybe if he leaves United he'll improve further.

As for the whole mong thing well obviously I'm seeing the glass as being half empty at the moment. In the time I've been watching soccer I've always felt that the centre midfield being able to hold their own was important, crazy as it may sound. Completely overrun AT HOME by Cyprus and Poland isn't good enough and if you have seen it differently then maybe tis u that doesn't watch enough soccer. Or maybe it's u that just checks Aertel:

IRELAND P3 W2 D1 L0 F3 A1 PTS7

Jeeze they must be doing well........doesn't tell the full story though does it??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

I haven't mentioned John Joe O'Toole in one comment up until now and know f*ck all about him to be honest. I've seen Garvan and think he looks a class ahead of the two boys (GW&DG). I could be proved wrong. I watch plenty of soccer but don't get to see Whelan and Gibson all that often for obvious reasons.

---

As a Watford season ticket holder I can confirm he has matured physically and mentally....has scored 7 goals so far and is by far Watford's most attacking weapon.....he'll almost certainly be bought by a Premiership team in January

I was surprised that he wasn't picked in this squad for a "look/see"

http://www.watfordfc.premiumtv.co.uk...~41474,00.html

Plenty of other people have mentioned O'Toole and Delap, and to be honest if you're throwing the international career of Glenn Whelan away, then you're going to have to replace him with Gibson, Andrews, Delap, O'Toole, Carsley (who wont be around after this season), Reid, Fahey, Garvan and a handful of others you can play at CM instead. The list shortens if you want a particular type of player. So say Whelan is never good enough to play again, which is crazy, and its pretty hard to find a replacement. Carsley, Delap or Andrews. And I'd put Whelan ahead of the lot of them on the back of his performances thus far, and the fact Carsley will retire in May (certainly wont be around to go the WC anyway) and Delap is would be a ridiculous choice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

Owen Garvan and John Joe O'Toole are two attacking midfielders, both aged just 20. But yeah lads, I read a match report about them in the last few weeks that said they did well so its a disgrace that Trap hasn't picked them. Two attacking 20 year olds making their debut would have imposed their game on the Polish and pinged balls around the place creating even more chances than the several great chances we managed anyway.

Irish people are the worst, most idiotic football fans in the world.

---

Garvan isn't an attacking midfielder. He's a playmaker. A guy that takes the ball from defence and gets moves started. Always available for a pass and has a great pass.

O'Toole is getting the goals but he's a very combative player. He'll hassle the opposition all day.

Anyway, I wouldn't have O'Toole in the squad yet as he's still unproven. Garvan is up to it already imo.

How can people on the basis of this friendly say we have no hope against Bulgaria who got thrashed by Serbia 6-1?

I must admit to being frustrated by the apparent stubborness of Trap's team selection. I think he underestimates the depth in talent Ireland have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

And what will we learn from playing two attack minded 20 year olds against that Polish midfield? They'd have been swamped, completely overrun and we'd have been beaten a lot easier than we were. And then there'd be morons on here going mad that they got a cap just like the abuse Gibson got after his debut, and then these nobodys will be demanding some other poor schmuck gets a call up.

We have a way of playing, its going quite well so far. We're on course to qualify. We created plenty of chances last night, and conceded goals from a couple of defensive lapses that we havent shown in the previous six games. Calm down.

---

im am not saying play both them together jicked
and im not saying gibson or whelan are bad players- but facts are they are not first team players at the moment for their clubs

i agree with you that we have a system and it has worked well BUT we have not yet played any big team with this system

the gibson/whelan partnership has been tried against lesser teams only so far and it has failed

it will be more to the teams benefit to give different players (who are getting first team football at their clubs) more exposure to the international scene than 2 reserve players

garvan and o toole are only examples i am not using specifics - try other players from other positions that are gettin frist team action - thus try different systems

more than likely as the group goes on we are going to be trailing in a game and we may welll need to change the system then - hence give other formations and players a go

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ifk101

Trapattoni has 2 choices. He can (1) pick a team of individuals or (2) he can pick the individual to fit the team. You want him to chose option 1, I want him to chose option 2. . :D

---

The fact is he chose the system to suit the players he thought he had. He and the rest of his managerial team did not take time to look beyond the obvious options (established squad players and other Premiership players).

The evidence of last night and Cyprus suggests that niether the system nor the current group of midfield players are at all likely to get us results. So what do you suggest we do. Stick with ths system, stick with the same players and hope for the best? I would rather we thought about alternatives and proting players with the technical ability and guile to play at this level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sligo Hornet

As a Watford season ticket holder I can confirm he has matured physically and mentally....has scored 7 goals so far and is by far Watford's most attacking weapon.....he'll almost certainly be bought by a Premiership team in January

I was surprised that he wasn't picked in this squad for a "look/see"

---

I have seen O'Toole a few times on the box and he looks good, However, Horney, why did he only come off the bench in the last ten minutes in the defeat by Barnsley at the weekend? Injured previously?

Watford: Lee, Mariappa, Bromby, DeMerit, Doyley, McAnuff, Williamson, Smith, Jenkins (O'Toole 80), Harley (Hoskins 78), Priskin (Rasiak 60)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I have seen O'Toole a few times on the box and he looks good, However, Horney, why did he only come off the bench in the last ten minutes in the defeat by Barnsley at the weekend? Injured previously?

Watford: Lee, Mariappa, Bromby, DeMerit, Doyley, McAnuff, Williamson, Smith, Jenkins (O'Toole 80), Harley (Hoskins 78), Priskin (Rasiak 60)

---

No he wsan't, and that strange decision not to play him from the start is why we are in the bottom three!:(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

Plenty of other people have mentioned O'Toole and Delap, and to be honest if you're throwing the international career of Glenn Whelan away, then you're going to have to replace him with Gibson, Andrews, Delap, O'Toole, Carsley (who wont be around after this season), Reid, Fahey, Garvan and a handful of others you can play at CM instead. The list shortens if you want a particular type of player. So say Whelan is never good enough to play again, which is crazy, and its pretty hard to find a replacement. Carsley, Delap or Andrews. And I'd put Whelan ahead of the lot of them on the back of his performances thus far, and the fact Carsley will retire in May (certainly wont be around to go the WC anyway) and Delap is would be a ridiculous choice.

---

I think our major difference comes down to the evaluation of Whelan. I think he's crap, u don't...fair enough. We're obviously low on numbers who have been tried and tested and I felt it was worth trying something else last night as we had nothing to lose really as the Cyprus game was a mess. To be honest I don't think we're good enough for the system he trying to play especially with SReid gone. 5 in midfield I think to try to make up for quality with quantity and maybe have another wee visit to see Stephen Manchester.

the scrappy urgency at the end last night occluded what was largely a dominant polish performance. and before anyone starts with "we had our chances" i believe we failed to test their keeper seriously with any of them before our goals. the two goals from the impact subs and the haywire conclusion will give trap enough ammo to forge ahead without consideration to the glaring weaknesses at central midfield. s. reid is definitely a large hole that needs filling, i don't care if it takes two players to fill it, e.g. owen garvan and another. how about this: can we please have a central midfielder who, with his back to the opposition goal, can receive a pass from our back four, turn with one touch, and play a forward pass with his 2nd? shouldn't be too much to ask of supposed international calibre players, regardless of 'systems' or 'roles'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sligo Hornet

As a Watford season ticket holder I can confirm he has matured physically and mentally....has scored 7 goals so far and is by far Watford's most attacking weapon.....he'll almost certainly be bought by a Premiership team in January

I was surprised that he wasn't picked in this squad for a "look/see"

http://www.watfordfc.premiumtv.co.uk...~41474,00.html

---

Thanks for the heads up!!! I'll check Watford out the next time they're on da box, Carling Cup v Spurs Wed week I believe.

Lads here are the facts:
Shots (on Goal) 14(4) 14(6)
Fouls 8 11
Corner Kicks 9 10
Offsides 4 1
Time of Possession 54% 46%
Yellow Cards 0 0
Red Cards 0 0
Saves 3 2


We had a lot more possession and to be honest i thought we had nearer 60% possession. Had the game finished 2-0 I would probably have been more blunt in my assessment and a bit more trigger happy in my summation. The above stats speak for themselves though, the game was quite evenly matched with us having more possession, which you would expect for a home team(even if poland appeared to be the home team). The difference last night comes down to 2 brilliant finishes from the poles and 1 error from a debutant. I think given could have got closer to the second goal as he was out a bit far but apart from that I would say he was solid. A friend at work here told me that City would be happy to see Dunne leave in January, and he said for Dunne himself he needs a fresh start. I'm not sure that drastic action needs to be taken but their is definitely something on his mind and he has been poor the last couple of months. Hopefully its just a poor spell and the dunnie of old returns sooner rather than later. This leads to O'shea I really think he needs a leader beside him to have a good game much like babb and mcgrath , and with dunne being poor so too was he. Kilbane is poor, and trap should have given someone else a run like delaney or whoever. I thought gibson is a more naturally gifted player than whelan and showed this in a few touches, but whelan did quite well in the last 15 mins or so. They were definitely better than against cyprus but they need to get more stuck in. Can they up it another level against georgia? I'm hoping they can otherwise trap definitely needs to look at his options. Anyway everyone else has given their opinion on individual players so no point regurgitating whats already been said, but at the end of the day we lost because our strongest point during the Trap reign let us down and thats our defence. Hopefully we have the bad game out of the way and can get on with being very solid and leak very little at the back, as thats what Trap said he noticed the most about us before he took over.

Finally, im somewhat with ORA and IFK, and I can see where farbeag and botn are coming from, and id say both have valid points, too often we jump off ship and say this or that fella should be playing and it changes every time. Kunt is not a 90 minute player his biggest asset is as a substitue, an impact one to run round like a dope for 15 - 20 minutes expend all energy and win a few throws, after that period of time he fades and makes more bad than good, that is why he is so good as a sub to bring on, which trap seems to realise. Long showed that he is an actually more adepth player with greater skill than NUNT. SO trap obviouslly sees this in training and other things. I think though that one of garvan, mccann or possibnly otoole should have got a chance tonight just to break them into the international arena. Making out that 2 of the 3 are our savoiurs in the midfield is just plain stupid. THey would be overwhelmed and over-awed.

Just like to add ive seen mccann fully twice against Premiership oppossition and he never stuck out. If you really are that good these are the games you should be impressing in and he hasn't.

Again lads a dose of reality is required, 7 points from 9, given the circumstances we found oursevles in and a home is nothing to be writing home about and saying everything is hunky dory because it isn't. But no point in going to the other extreme either. I think had we played georgia at home we would have drawn against them and be only 5 points.

Last night illustrated that Trapp's methodology relies heavily on keeping the Status Quo, nicking the lead and fighting to hold onto it.

We've such a paucity of experienced and creative quality in the middle (whether its currently self-inflicted or not) that it makes chasing a game much more difficult.

Have the team seriously legislated for it tactically. Just what changes if we go a goal down?

Trapp's brand of football demands a ruthless streak when chances present themselves. The Italians are past masters of killing a game and winning it when one chance presents itself.

We simply can't play Trapp's way and pass up the opportunities that Duff did last night. It could well end up the difference between qualifying or not.

Stephen Reid's loss has been devastating - yet the fact is, we can't build a team around a bloke who is injured far more often than he's available.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jicked

Plenty of other people have mentioned O'Toole and Delap, and to be honest if you're throwing the international career of Glenn Whelan away, then you're going to have to replace him with Gibson, Andrews, Delap, O'Toole, Carsley (who wont be around after this season), Reid, Fahey, Garvan and a handful of others you can play at CM instead. The list shortens if you want a particular type of player. So say Whelan is never good enough to play again, which is crazy, and its pretty hard to find a replacement. Carsley, Delap or Andrews. And I'd put Whelan ahead of the lot of them on the back of his performances thus far, and the fact Carsley will retire in May (certainly wont be around to go the WC anyway) and Delap is would be a ridiculous choice.

---

Good post jicked. Smack of realism there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Last night illustrated that Trapp's methodology relies heavily on keeping the Status Quo, nicking the lead and fighting to hold onto it.

We've such a paucity of experienced and creative quality in the middle (whether its currently self-inflicted or not) that it makes chasing a game much more difficult.

Have the team seriously legislated for it tactically. Just what changes if we go a goal down?

Trapp's brand of football demands a ruthless streak when chances present themselves. The Italians are past masters of killing a game and winning it when one chance presents itself.

We simply can't play Trapp's way and pass up the opportunities that Duff did last night. It could well end up the difference between qualifying or not.

Stephen Reid's loss has been devastating - yet the fact is, we can't build a team around a bloke who is injured far more often than he's available.

---

Spot on.

I would add that not only can we afford Duffs wastefulness in front of goal, Trapps tactics rely on us being absolutely tight at the back.

Thats why what happened at the back last night is way more important to our qualification hopes than what happened further up the field.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Just like to add ive seen mccann fully twice against Premiership oppossition and he never stuck out. If you really are that good these are the games you should be impressing in and he hasn't.

---

Coyle thought he played well against Fulham...

"Chris was outstanding. I believe he is good enough to play in the Premier League now. He has just got to keep doing it week in, week out.

He has a lot of energy and he created three or four opportunities against a Premier League side full of good players."

Whether he stood out against Chelsea or not, he played in a midfield that had 51% of the possession at Stamford Bridge. Not bad at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ken foree

the scrappy urgency at the end last night occluded what was largely a dominant polish performance. and before anyone starts with "we had our chances"

---

Well we did have plenty of chances therefore it's hard to see how it was a dominant Polish performance. Duffer himself could have had a hat-trick only for some wayward finishing. Both defences looked suspect. Both teams had lots of chances and Poland took theirs better.

The major concern from last night was how poorly we defended because we created enough chances to win three games even if nobody could manage to hit the net until the last minute.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Coyle thought he played well against Fulham...

"Chris was outstanding. I believe he is good enough to play in the Premier League now. He has just got to keep doing it week in, week out.

He has a lot of energy and he created three or four opportunities against a Premier League side full of good players."

Whether he stood out against Chelsea or not, he played in a midfield that had 51% of the possession at Stamford Bridge. Not bad at all.

---

sorry I was on about chelsea this year and in the fa cup last year at turf moor against arsenal(i think) i know it was a bad sunday day anyway!

And we think we have problems....

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...523960,00.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maroon 7

Well we did have plenty of chances therefore it's hard to see how it was a dominant Polish performance. Duffer himself could have had a hat-trick only for some wayward finishing. Both defences looked suspect. Both teams had lots of chances and Poland took theirs better.

The major concern from last night was how poorly we defended because we created enough chances to win three games even if nobody could manage to hit the net until the last minute.

---

we never forced their keeper into a serious save (i remember a doyle snapshot) and they shoulda been 3-0 up by the time we clawed something back late on. they were dominant as their play had far more cohesion, quality and (not least) style, no matter what our number of sporadic chances that fell to duff. non-stats-wise they simply outclassed us. i confess i'd rather poland win that game handily as reward for the way they set about playing their football. we were ugly, sorry.

berbatov does seem like a bit of a sulk to be honest. spose lots of continentals seem like that though!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

I would agree that a point away to Montenegro wasn't a complete disaster as they are clearly useful enough. The worst thing about that game is we never really threatened ourselves (although we should have had a pen or two) and to be fair I don't think they were completely unhappy with a point themselves. Like John Joe what's his face I haven't mentioned Delap either and don't think he should be in the team. The way I see it Whelan isn't good enough and will never be, not sure about Gibson but has done nothing yet, maybe if he leaves United he'll improve further.

As for the whole mong thing well obviously I'm seeing the glass as being half empty at the moment. In the time I've been watching soccer I've always felt that the centre midfield being able to hold their own was important, crazy as it may sound. Completely overrun AT HOME by Cyprus and Poland isn't good enough and if you have seen it differently then maybe tis u that doesn't watch enough soccer. Or maybe it's u that just checks Aertel:

IRELAND P3 W2 D1 L0 F3 A1 PTS7

Jeeze they must be doing well........doesn't tell the full story though does it??

---

a point away to montenegro is nothing to be proud of lads. if we'd been more positive and had andy reid playing we'd have beaten them. italy are a poor side in my opinion, they have no strikers and their defence is very questionable. if we had a full strength first 11 at home we should beat them. lets be bloody positive about things. we have the potential to win this group if the manager picks the right players. given, kilbane, dunne, o shea, finnan (excellent defence), andy reid, steven reid, mcgeady, duff, doyle and keane up front. best starting 11 of any of the teams in our group. bulgaria are a nothing side