Setanta Cup Final

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20/10/2008, 7:26 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And if DCFC Steve is correct in his suspicion (above) that this decision was taken to "compensate" Cork for the self-inflicted financial mess they're in, then that would be disgraceful.

I dont think he is. Simply because we were promised home advantage last year too if we made it, before any of this trouble
21/10/2008, 9:09 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

I dont think he is. Simply because we were promised home advantage last year too if we made it, before any of this trouble

Fair enough.
21/10/2008, 10:16 AM
derm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I personally am not so bothered by the home advantage element. Rather, my gripe is threefold.

Really? I'm surprised at that tbh. That would be my biggest gripe if the situation was reversed. I was anticipating my first trip to Belfast before I found out that the cross was the venue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

First, I think the Final should be a prestige occasion for the whole of Irish club football, hosted in the most appropriate venue in Dublin or Belfast. For example, if the Final were between e.g. Glentoran and Derry City, or even Glens and Linfield, Windsor would be my choice.

Not an ideal world I'm afraid. There is no prestige venue of an appropriate size (RDS :eek: ?) in the republic and Windsor has the potential to grant unfair home advantage as has been seen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Second, as someone who wants to see this competition thrive, I am dismayed that there is evident bad feeling on the IFA side, clearly not helped by this decision and the manner in which it was made.

I can understand that. I don't know much about how or when the decision was made tbh but it appears to have been made just before the semi's ko.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Third, whilst I accept that Setanta are putting a lot of money into the competition, their desire to see a large crowd, and maybe even a winner from the larger of the two Subscription TV audiences on the island(?), should not override purely sporting considerations, such as fairness.

I doubt they care who wins it but crowds would and should be an important consideration. To be fair the competition is not going to thrive if the final is played out in a half-empty stadium.

By fairness do you mean home advantage (which doesn't bother you) or ease of travel for fans? If the latter then it could be argued by Setanta that the fact that it is televised live means no fan need miss it.

The fairest way to me seems to play a two-legged final, but then you lose much of the magic of a 'proper' final.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

And if DCFC Steve is correct in his suspicion (above) that this decision was taken to "compensate" Cork for the self-inflicted financial mess they're in, then that would be disgraceful.

An unfair speculation in my view and one that puts the "blame" on City. Derry had as much a chance of a home final and there's no guarantee they'd have switched to Windsor. Tbh I think the powers that made the decision were hoping for a Derry win as they'd've gotten a full stadium with a large away support and little (or a lot less) complaint.

Besides, the gate is evenly split* so both teams benefit from a large crowd. City's financial mess has shown me the logic of maximizing crowd revenue, but the logical conclusion to this is a two-legged final.

* AFAIK, at least. Is the competition paying for the rent of the ground and other associated costs of hosting a football game or does City stump up as the price of a home final ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

P.S. This situation didn't just "pan out", like the weather or something. It was a conscious decision, made by people whose motives are suspect. Why should we have to tolerate this, when it is entirely avoidable?

The main problem with the decision in my view is how late it seems to have been made. I think Glens' reputation for bringing big support to away games could have worked against them - why go to the expense and trouble of organizing a neutral venue when you can nominate one of the two best home supported venues to host the IFA's best away supported team?
21/10/2008, 10:21 AM
derm

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

I dont think he is. Simply because we were promised home advantage last year too if we made it, before any of this trouble

That rings a vague little bell ...
21/10/2008, 11:45 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by derm

Really? I'm surprised at that tbh. That would be my biggest gripe if the situation was reversed. I was anticipating my first trip to Belfast before I found out that the cross was the venue.

I didn't say I was entirely unconcerned by Cork's home advantage; rather I was trying to see the bigger picture i.e. the problems for precedent, prestige, image, acceptance within NI etc. which this decision creates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derm

Not an ideal world I'm afraid. There is no prestige venue of an appropriate size (RDS :eek: ?) in the republic and Windsor has the potential to grant unfair home advantage as has been seen.

I'm not suggesting Windsor. Are you saying there is NO suitable venue in Dublin, or elsewhere in ROI? Surely not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by derm

I can understand that. I don't know much about how or when the decision was made tbh but it appears to have been made just before the semi's ko.

It's not just the timing of the decision, however. The clear implication is that Corcoran and the Setanta Committee seem to have conducted a "consultation" process with the IFA which was actually a sham (the decision already having been made).

Quote:

Originally Posted by derm

I doubt they care who wins it but crowds would and should be an important consideration. To be fair the competition is not going to thrive if the final is played out in a half-empty stadium.

Short-sighted, imo. If a competition is seen to be unfair/rigged, then its credibility will suffer in the long term, along with the crowds.
21/10/2008, 3:29 PM
lofty9

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Fair enough.

:eek: Only two words? Didn't know you had it in you! Well done.
24/10/2008, 7:43 AM
fionnsci

http://extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/972/

Ticket Details Announced for Cross-Border Final

2008-10-23 13:48:28

By Alan Smith

Both Cork City and Glentoran have announced their allocations for the next Saturday night's Setanta Sports Cup Final.
Cork, who will have 'home' advantage in the Final, will receive the entire Curragh Road End as well as the Donie Forde Stand. Tickets were expected to go on sale to Season Ticket Holders tomorrow and are priced at �20 for adults and �10 for children but it is unknown now whether it will be tomorrow or Monday as the tickets have seemingly been held up by the FAI. Any remaining tickets will then be on sale to members of the general public.
The decision by the cross-border competition's committee to host the final down in Cork wasn't greeted too well by fans of the Belfast club and with the rumour that the St. Annes end, which has undergone a recent refurbishment, will not be ready; it means the Glens will be given just 1100 tickets. There will be 850 adult tickets priced at �16 and 250 concessions for �8. These tickets will only be available from The Oval and the full details are on the clubs official website: www.glentoran.com .
It is still unknown whether the St.Annes end will be open for the game as the new roof has yet to be completed. If the stand is open in time, it is expected to be shared between both sets of fans.
24/10/2008, 11:22 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by fionnsci

the St. Annes end,[B] which has undergone a recent refurbishment, will not be ready;

They are building shops/toilets as part of the improvements and it was clear that would not e completed. I believe they stopped working on this last week to ensure there was safe entry points (e.g. paths) for fans so I expect the stand to be open.
24/10/2008, 12:00 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by fionnsci

http://extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/972/

Ticket Details Announced for Cross-Border Final

2008-10-23 13:48:28

By Alan Smith

Cork, who will have 'home' advantage in the Final, will receive the entire Curragh Road End as well as the Donie Forde Stand.

It is still unknown whether the St.Annes end will be open for the game as the new roof has yet to be completed. If the stand is open in time, it is expected to be shared between both sets of fans.

Anyone any idea how many (home) fans the Curragh Rd and DF Stands hold? Also the St.Anne's End?
24/10/2008, 12:24 PM
fionnsci

The Donie Forde Stand (1900), St.Annes End (2800), Derrynane Road (1185), Curragh Road Stand (1500).
24/10/2008, 4:26 PM
R�iteoir

Quote:

Originally Posted by fionnsci

http://extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/972/

Ticket Details Announced for Cross-Border Final

2008-10-23 13:48:28

By Alan Smith

Both Cork City and Glentoran have announced their allocations for the next Saturday night's Setanta Sports Cup Final.
Cork, who will have 'home' advantage in the Final, will receive the entire Curragh Road End as well as the Donie Forde Stand.

Chuckling somewhat as to the word home being in "quotation marks" there :D
24/10/2008, 6:16 PM
dcfcsteve

I assume the St Annes end will be segregated if shared ?
24/10/2008, 6:32 PM
SUB of the day

What A joke.....

1 block of St Annes end (696 seats) open for final, ie 2000 empty seats flapping in the wind.Toal fcukn joke, ****- up brewery etc etc....:mad:
24/10/2008, 8:20 PM
corkboy360

Quote:

Originally Posted by SUB of the day

1 block of St Annes end (696 seats) open for final, ie 2000 empty seats flapping in the wind.Toal fcukn joke, ****- up brewery etc etc....:mad:

Not suprised origanally thought Setanta were organising this then was told by a friend last week its the FAIlureknew we were ****ed
24/10/2008, 10:40 PM
Lux Interior

So, potentially more Glentoran fans than their [Final] ground allocation can accommodate.

Hmmmmmn ......
24/10/2008, 10:45 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lux Interior

So, potentially more Glentoran fans than their [Final] ground allocation can accommodate.

Hmmmmmn ......

No. Ye are entitled to more tickets if ye need them, even with the reduced capacity(which isnt certain yet).
25/10/2008, 12:20 PM
dcfcsteve

A choice of Final location that was wrong on sporting and tournament-prestige reasons now also appears to be going wrong in terms of physical preparedness as well....

If there was even a small risk the St Annes End couldn't be 100% guaranteed available, Turners Cross shouldn't have got the Final.
25/10/2008, 2:56 PM
corkboy360

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

A choice of Final location that was wrong on sporting and tournament-prestige reasons now also appears to be going wrong in terms of physical preparedness as well....

If there was even a small risk the St Annes End couldn't be 100% guaranteed available, Turners Cross shouldn't have got the Final.

Still better than half empty RDS like last years FAI Cup Final plus the atmosphere will be better down here as the placer looks like it will be sold out.

Cork City and Glentoran to be the first 2 teams to sell out a setanta cup final????:cool:
25/10/2008, 4:06 PM
micls

Very annoyed City and Glentoran fans. FAI have limited kids tickets, we only got 600.

Weve sold out our initial allocation of tickets and more due after the weekend but there'l be plenty of people having to pay 20euro to bring their kids along.
25/10/2008, 5:48 PM
Longfordian

We were always having rows with them about kids tickets when we were in the cup finals a few years back. They're stingy with their allocation.
25/10/2008, 7:12 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by corkboy360

Still better than half empty RDS like last years FAI Cup Final plus the atmosphere will be better down here as the placer looks like it will be sold out.

The RDS isn't the only stadium in Dublin, and has never been talked of as a possible final venue, so it's irrelevant in this discussion. Sure why not talk of the alternative of a 95% empty Croker...?

Quote:

Originally Posted by corkboy360

Cork City and Glentoran to be the first 2 teams to sell out a setanta cup final????:cool:

Thanks to a reduced capacity in what would already have been the smallest stadium yet to host it anyway.....
25/10/2008, 9:26 PM
razor

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

A choice of Final location that was wrong on sporting and tournament-prestige reasons now also appears to be going wrong in terms of physical preparedness as well....

If there was even a small risk the St Annes End couldn't be 100% guaranteed available, Turners Cross shouldn't have got the Final.

Good to see the one man crusade continue.
Keep it up Steve.
Fight the good fight.
26/10/2008, 12:58 AM
corkboy360

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The RDS isn't the only stadium in Dublin, and has never been talked of as a possible final venue, so it's irrelevant in this discussion. Sure why not talk of the alternative of a 95% empty Croker...?

yes it was

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Thanks to a reduced capacity in what would already have been the smallest stadium yet to host it anyway.....

Well if ye won the semi it would of been a smaller capacity.
26/10/2008, 11:42 AM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The RDS isn't the only stadium in Dublin, and has never been talked of as a possible final venue, so it's irrelevant in this discussion. Sure why not talk of the alternative of a 95% empty Croker...?

Em yes it was. It was being touted as the Dublin option
27/10/2008, 1:47 AM
L37Ultra

Tickets?

Does anyone know if there are going to be tickets made available for netural fans or if there will be tickets available at Turners Cross on the night of the game.

:ball:
27/10/2008, 2:18 AM
Candystripe

[QUOTE=corkboy360;1047234]

Well if ye won the semi it would of been a smaller capacity.[/QUOTE

Actually I reckon the final would have been moved to Windsor.No way would we have been able to host the amount of Glens fans who would have wanted to attend.
27/10/2008, 10:22 AM
adamd164

FAO L37Ultra, tickets are on sale in our club shop in the city centre. However, our initial allocation is apparently gone and more are due in. I would highly doubt there'll be any on the night available.
27/10/2008, 10:25 AM
adamd164

Quote:

Originally Posted by Candystripe

Actually I reckon the final would have been moved to Windsor.No way would we have been able to host the amount of Glens fans who would have wanted to attend.

Boohoo, you didn't win. Move on.

Why are Derry fans insistent on trying to spin this as us ****ing Glentoran over?
27/10/2008, 11:34 AM
R�iteoir

because maybe - with a small grain of truth in it - it is screwing them over?
27/10/2008, 12:59 PM
adamd164

Quote:

Originally Posted by R�iteoir

because maybe - with a small grain of truth in it - it is screwing them over?

If you mean because it's in our home ground, then were Drogs "screwed over" last season when they had to play the game at Linfield's ground?

If you mean because the distance they have to travel, then tough: it's the FAI's year to host the final and they have the right to choose any of their constituent grounds for it. If the shoe was on the other foot (i.e. if it was next year and the IFA's turn to host it), would the IFA have felt sorry for us and played it in Dublin? Yeah, right!

It's only ever been in a neutral venue once: when we played Drogs in 2006, both teams from the same national association.
27/10/2008, 1:33 PM
BohsPartisan

I think the whole way the Setanta cup final is always unfair on someone but that's not Cork's fault. It has been the way it was run from day one. Having said that, no one complains about the FAI cup final being in Dublin every year so get over it everyone and enjoy what should be a good spectacle. Glens will bring a good cowd, Cork will have a good crowd and it should make for a good atmosphere.
27/10/2008, 1:39 PM
R�iteoir

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamd164

If you mean because it's in our home ground, then were Drogs "screwed over" last season when they had to play the game at Linfield's ground?

If you mean because the distance they have to travel, then tough: it's the FAI's year to host the final and they have the right to choose any of their constituent grounds for it. If the shoe was on the other foot (i.e. if it was next year and the IFA's turn to host it), would the IFA have felt sorry for us and played it in Dublin? Yeah, right!

It's only ever been in a neutral venue once: when we played Drogs in 2006, both teams from the same national association.

As I said - I look forward to making to trip to Stangmore Park to watch Bohs take on Dungannon in next year's Final
27/10/2008, 2:38 PM
adamd164

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

I think the whole way the Setanta cup final is always unfair on someone but that's not Cork's fault. It has been the way it was run from day one. Having said that, no one complains about the FAI cup final being in Dublin every year so get over it everyone and enjoy what should be a good spectacle. Glens will bring a good cowd, Cork will have a good crowd and it should make for a good atmosphere.

Well said.:)
27/10/2008, 3:24 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by L37Ultra

Does anyone know if there are going to be tickets made available for netural fans or if there will be tickets available at Turners Cross on the night of the game.

:ball:

There won't be any left on the night from the way sales are going
27/10/2008, 3:44 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

I think the whole way the Setanta cup final is always unfair on someone but that's not Cork's fault. It has been the way it was run from day one. Having said that, no one complains about the FAI cup final being in Dublin every year so get over it everyone and enjoy what should be a good spectacle. Glens will bring a good cowd, Cork will have a good crowd and it should make for a good atmosphere.

Not well said at all - you've missed the point.

Firstly - no-one complains about the FAI Cup Final being in Dublin, as everyone pretty much accepts that it should be. It's a big, prestigious final.

Prior to this season everyone had likewise accepted that the Setanta Final should be in Belfast or Dublin. That's why the decision to award the venue deliberately to a finalist for the first time ever - remember that in previous season's it's only been hosted by a finalist by default/coincidence - has been greeted with concern by a broad range of people.

Secondly - you suggest that not using neutral grounds "has been the way it was run form day one". So why was Cork v Drogs played at a neutral ground then ? The first Setanta final would also have been at a neutral ground had Linfield not made it, as it was always planned to be Windsor.
27/10/2008, 3:57 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Prior to this season everyone had likewise accepted that the Setanta Final should be in Belfast or Dublin. That's why the decision to award the venue deliberately to a finalist for the first time ever - remember that in previous season's it's only been hosted by a finalist by default/coincidence - has been greeted with concern by a broad range of people.

Em wrong again. We were awarded the final last year too....had we made it. Decision was made before the semi final.

So its not the first time ever.
27/10/2008, 4:09 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by micls

Em wrong again. We were awarded the final last year too....had we made it. Decision was made before the semi final.

So its not the first time ever.

Cork were awarded the final last year - had yees made it...?!? :o

Likewise I was awarded a Gold medal at the Beijing Olympics. Had I made it...

So why weren't yees similarly awarded in 2006 - when yee's did make it...?

No matter what spin or self-delusion people try to put on it - the prestige and standing of the Setanta has been cheapened by putting it on a par with the League Cup in terms of Final venue choice. A poor decision that is guaranteed to back-fire in future. Made even worse by the fact the chosen venue won't even be ready as was originally promised.
27/10/2008, 4:13 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Cork were awarded the final last year - had yees made it...?!? :o

Likewise I was awarded a Gold medal at the Beijing Olympics. Had I made it...

So why weren't yees similarly awarded in 2006 - when yee's did make it...?

No matter what spin or self-delusion people try to put on it - the prestige and standing of the Setanta has been cheapened by putting it on a par with the League Cup in terms of Final venue choice. A poor decision that is guaranteed to back-fire in future. Made even worse by the fact the chosen venue won't even be ready as was originally promised.

You claimed this was the first time this decision had been made, it wasnt. In 2006 The Shed was in the process of being torn down, hence the stadium was not fit to hold the final.

Prestige :rolleyes: Its the Setanta cup ffs, just above the league cup in terms of prestige. It's been at a neutral venue once ever and only because neither ground of the finalists could hold the thing.

Originally promised? You on the SSC committee or something? How do you know what was promised?
27/10/2008, 4:58 PM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Secondly - you suggest that not using neutral grounds "has been the way it was run form day one". So why was Cork v Drogs played at a neutral ground then ? The first Setanta final would also have been at a neutral ground had Linfield not made it, as it was always planned to be Windsor.

Why did they switch it from one non-neutral ground to another? That doesn't make sense! As for Drogs, United park wasn't suibtable obviously, so in the same way they play their European home games in Dublin, so too the Setanta cup.

You lot are very vocal considering you had three out of the last four tin cup finals in The Brandywell!
27/10/2008, 5:16 PM
thischarmingman

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

You lot are very vocal considering you had three out of the last four tin cup finals in The Brandywell!

Two. Vs Shels and vs Bohs. Given that it's supposedly a random toss of a coin, 50/50 is about right, isn't it?

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