Harps in dire financial trouble!!

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Originally Posted by finnpark

Under 7 the whole way up including a new Primary and Secondary school leagues and proper coaching that would include social coaching such as discussing the influence of booze, psychology and Gym training programme information. Starting at 18 or 19 is a waste of time unless they look outside the NW like UCD do - a national scouting system. Even GAA clubs start at U-10 and they are amateur.


I think that a wider catchment area than Ballybofey is needed :rolleyes: Most of the young lads around there are ****heads by the age of 18



Thats true alright. Too much drinking and not enough professional training.

3 things a club like Harps should have in place:

1. Youth System - County wide in all major population areas from under 7s upwards including schools and a summer academy for different age groups.

2. A decent stadium

3. Intense local PR and marketing

4. A professioanal team

The board decided to go from point 0 to point 4 skipping the most important parts that any club should have.

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1. While I take your points in relation to the youth system, it will never happen in Donegal. Too many clubs will not allow their underage players into a Finn Harps set up. There are many reasons why, not the least why should they be providing players for a Finn Harps underage side that will be competing against their own underage side. The Harps youth team that currently competes in the Donegal Youth League has to be made up from players not currently attached to the current sides in that League and also from areas not known (in Donegal) for their soccer prowess. Unfortunately only UCD in the current League of Ireland can offer their players scholarships/the opportunity to continue their studies whilst playing top level soccer.

2. Hopefully this is on the way in the not too distant future. However, a winning team is the only thing that Donegal people (not the diehards of the Harps support) will turn out in numbers to watch.

3. Intense PR and marketing. The Harps PRO for last season was given an award by the Soccer Writers Association of Ireland. We have upwards of seven or eight newspapers in Donegal that give Harps top billing in their soccer section. A winning team is the only thing that Donegal people (not the diehards of the Harps support) will turn out in numbers to watch.

4. A professional team. Not sustainable in the current format as has been evidenced this season. You cannot turn players overnight into professional players. This should be done on a gradual basis phasing it in over four to five seasons, starting with the younger players in the squad. Unfortunately time is not something most clubs are prepared to invest in their pursuit of success.

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Originally Posted by Rovers1

can any of the UCD heads tell me (apologies if totally off topic) how/in what way the college itself funds the club?

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It is explained about 5 times in the "This is not right!" thread.

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Originally Posted by Rovers1

can any of the UCD heads tell me (apologies if totally off topic) how/in what way the college itself funds the club?

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Not much. Biggest thing they do is provide ground/training facilities but I suppose they do "own" the club. All explained here:

http://foot.ie/showpost.php?p=1029036&postcount=61

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Originally Posted by finnpark

Under 7 the whole way up including a new Primary and Secondary school leagues and proper coaching that would include social coaching such as discussing the influence of booze, psychology and Gym training programme information. Starting at 18 or 19 is a waste of time unless they look outside the NW like UCD do - a national scouting system. Even GAA clubs start at U-10 and they are amateur.

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We don't have an U7 team. We don't have a national scouting system. So I fail to see how any of that would be like UCD.;)

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Originally Posted by Rovers1

can any of the UCD heads tell me (apologies if totally off topic) how/in what way the college itself funds the club?

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At the start of each season the students pay a registration fee and (I think) 25 euros of that goes to the sports' dept. The profit from renting out pitches and halls is added and the money is divided out between the sports clubs in rough proportion to the clubs' membership.
Soccer is the biggest club in UCD and (last time I heard) gets the biggest share. It'd be roughly enough money to cover the running of the 2 intervarsity teams.

Going back to Harps, can't imagine the players are too happy that the club, rather than reduce wages gradually earlier (as presumably they knew trouble was around the corner), waited until the club was in a safe position and then cut the wages by half.

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

No, thank you. My primary social function is as an archivist of human idiocy and the likes of you make my job a lot easier.

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it must be a bit.ch not having a club to follow and having to look elsewhere for your "primary social function ".;)

The logical thing to happen here is for the Government to step in and bail all the clubs in bother out.

After all, we may have been a bit optimistic, but not half as bloody reckless as the banks!

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Going back to Harps, can't imagine the players are too happy that the club, rather than reduce wages gradually earlier (as presumably they knew trouble was around the corner), waited until the club was in a safe position and then cut the wages by half.

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Thats quite true to be fair there gates seemed to be poor enough most weeks. I am sure whoever was is in charge could see things were not adding up and coud have acted earlier than this.

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Originally Posted by finnpark

The only thing you guys can win is your local derby and the league cup. You are still as far away as ever from winning the league. Over performing as it is I would say

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Put the handbag down, ya big touchy girl ya !

I'm loving the intense irony of a Harps fan abusing fans of pretty much any club over their levels of success. Need I point out that the last time you won anything of note was 34 years ago. In the meantime, we've won two leagues, 4 FAI cups and 9 League Cups. And we gave you an 11 year head-start....

Harps fans will berate me for saying this, but the only town in Donegal capable of sustaining a senior level football club in the increasingly expensive world of Irish football is Letterkenny. Nowhere else has anywhere near the population. Saying that Letterkenny is only up the road from Ballybofey is irrelevant - it still isn't Letterkenny.

Plus, Letterkenny versus City would be a derby with a bit of bite - not the mock rivalry that we currently have.

And how do we pay for a stadium there Steve? Ballybofey is more or less central to our support which comes from all over Donegal and West Tyrone. We have an essentially free stadium on the way that will be one of the best in the country- would moving to Letterkenny really make enough difference to justify the massive extra expense?

Derry City's location is far from perfect as well- why don't you guys just move somewhere better?

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Originally Posted by Mr A

And how do we pay for a stadium there Steve? Ballybofey is more or less central to our support which comes from all over Donegal and West Tyrone. We have an essentially free stadium on the way that will be one of the best in the country- would moving to Letterkenny really make enough difference to justify the massive extra expense?

Derry City's location is far from perfect as well- why don't you guys just move somewhere better?

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Plumbing the depths of absurdity n your arguement there Mr A.

Derry is the fourth biggest city on the island, with a population well capable of supporting a full-time senior football club. The 3 bigger cities on the island all already have senior clubs- with tweo of thoise cities having too many already. Therefore, care to tell me where City should move and why...? :rolleyes:

As for your stadium, there is already a club in Letterkenny with their own land. You do the maths.

No matter what way you look at it, Ballybofey is just too small to support a top-level senior team. Saying its central for your support base is meaningless, and as much use as having Glasgow Rangers in the Isle of Man...:rolleyes:

It's not by coincidence that there is a clear and consistent correlation in football throughout the world between larger population centres and the presence and success of football clubs there.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Therefore, care to tell me where City should move and why...? :rolleyes:

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You just don't get sarcasm steve, do you?

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As for your stadium, there is already a club in Letterkenny with their own land. You do the maths.

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Simple as that. Sure that club would love to be taken over. Probably get the local businesses on baord straightaway too. if the other stadium is nearly built, surely you just move it brick by brick?

Think of the possibilities Donegalwegians!?

I heard that argument before that Harps should have moved to Letterkenny and it's a reasonable argument in terms of population and being the only senior soccer club in the county and it represents the county.... but work has now started on their new stadium and that argument is a mute point now because of that.

So you're perfectly happy with DCFC's current location, and don't feel the club should look to move to another part of they city then?

Or could it be that the only realistic prospect of getting the facilities you need is more or less where you're at already?

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Originally Posted by dcfc1928

I heard that argument before that Harps should have moved to Letterkenny and it's a reasonable argument in terms of population and being the only senior soccer club in the county and it represents the county.... but work has now started on their new stadium and that argument is a mute point now because of that.

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That was Dermot Keely's wish during his tenure there. AFAiK he did a lot of ground work on it with communities and business' in Donegal.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Plumbing the depths of absurdity n your arguement there Mr A.

Derry is the fourth biggest city on the island, with a population well capable of supporting a full-time senior football club. The 3 bigger cities on the island all already have senior clubs- with tweo of thoise cities having too many already. Therefore, care to tell me where City should move and why...? :rolleyes:

As for your stadium, there is already a club in Letterkenny with their own land. You do the maths.

No matter what way you look at it, Ballybofey is just too small to support a top-level senior team. Saying its central for your support base is meaningless, and as much use as having Glasgow Rangers in the Isle of Man...:rolleyes:

It's not by coincidence that there is a clear and consistent correlation in football throughout the world between larger population centres and the presence and success of football clubs there.

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Oh god i am actually cringed for you when i read this :D

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Originally Posted by lofty9

That was Dermot Keely's wish during his tenure there. AFAiK he did a lot of ground work on it with communities and business' in Donegal.

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That is not correct. Keely was involved with a consortium that tried to take over the club in 1996. One of the reasons the club wouldnt allow it was that the consortium wouldnt give certain guarantees one of which was that it wouldnt move the club to Letterkenny. I know Keely hadnt done any work with the community and some businesses in the Letterkenny area are already supporters of Harps.

If there are so many League of Ireland supporters waiting in Letterkenny for a club to support why do Letterkenny Rovers play in front of less than 100 people week in week out? and yes before you ask I am originally from Letterkenny.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

but the only town in Donegal capable of sustaining a senior level football club in the increasingly expensive world of Irish football is Letterkenny.

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I for one would not support the club if it moved to Letterkenny, not all Harps fans are from Ballybofey you know I live about 40 miles away in the south west of the county and there are plenty of fans in the area the same goes for most of the county. Harps have the problem most clubs have regarding support, if we were up near the top of the league sure we would be covering our costs the fan base is there it's just a pity they would not show up more often.

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Originally Posted by HarpsinDublin

Letterkenny Rovers play in front of less than 100 people week in week out

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That figure includes, club officials, players, subs, referee and linesmen!

I didn't get Harps going full-time at all. The teams at the top of the league need to be full-time to compete in Europe (and we're never going to have an all part-time league again; someone will always try to steal a march if others waver) because they're going to encounter teams from a different, ball-retaining football culture and couldn't match them otherwise.

But there aren't enough full-time-quality players in the bottom half of the league to justify the expenditure for the likes of Harps. Paying mediocre players a full-time wage won't make them any better, and the benefits of fitness and cohesion are too marginal to be of any consequence in a league where everyone plays basically the same style of football.

this in my opinion is another sign that professional football in ireland is not sustainable. - unless you've got a millionaire owner. how many clubs have got to have financial problems for people to realise this? galway, sligo, cork and now harps? all in one season... something seriously has gone wrong. whether it be the FAI licensing i dont know or just board mebers with fantasies.....

this is the time when supporting bray, who have struggled through themselves but have not got any major financial worries is so fulfilling. they dont spend money they dont have!!!

I don't think the club really made a decision to go full time. Hegarty asked for a certain budget to really try to make a go of it in the premier (our disastrous last visit nearly killed us and most of us believed we had a really excellent manager at the club), was given it and he then proceeded to give division 1 players full time deals instead of bringing new and better players to the club. If anything, for the first half of this season we were a worse side than last year. We have ****ed away so much money this season it's untrue- if it had been properly spent we probably would have actually balanced the books or close to it at least. Sustaining it never looked likely but a one year push to get in the ten team premier was doable. With some serious fundraising it still is.

but why did the board give hegarty all that funding? they took a chance and it didnt pay off and now you's are paying the price. hegarty should be sacked for the mess then, if what you are saying is true. But someone gave him the money to spend, the club obviously never had the money to spend in the first place.

Not to put words in the harps fans mouths but I think what they're saying is that if the money was better spent, they would've had better players and therefore had a better team which may not have seen a drop in crowds. The actual amount of money probably wasn't that bad I'd imagine, its just that they weren't getting value for money.

Loads of players overpaid throughout the league. No one to blame but the clubs

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Not to put words in the harps fans mouths but I think what they're saying is that if the money was better spent, they would've had better players and therefore had a better team which may not have seen a drop in crowds. The actual amount of money probably wasn't that bad I'd imagine, its just that they weren't getting value for money.

Loads of players overpaid throughout the league. No one to blame but the clubs

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What's to say that Hegarty didn't try to sign better players?
He may have ended up signing the pish players that he signed as he had no other options.

It's a problem that all provincial teams encounter, players would prefer to live in places like Dublin, Belfast and Cork. It's only when these options run out do they then agree to play in the stix.

Derry encountered the same problems when Fenlon thought that he'd take the back bone of his last Shels team to Derry with him, the players who were wanted by Dublin Clubs, stayed in Dublin and the pish came to Derry.
Roy Keane is having the same problem at Sunderland.

So I think it's unfair to blame Paul Hegarty for Ballybofey being such a $hit-hole.

I think that's a fair summation Dodge. The budget was a stretch, but not completely outrageous.

Even a small thing like having Derry at home twice rather than away twice could have seen us keep the wages paid until the end of the season. It's only another 6 or 7 weeks of course. Mind you you can bet that there's a hell of a lot of other creditors as well.

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Originally Posted by Krstic

What's to say that Hegarty didn't try to sign better players? .

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He did but his "mate" kenny hijacked 2 of them. Callaghan and McGinn.
He also spoke to Gary Deegan and quite a few others but, Hegarty was given his budget he decided to blow most of it giving mediocre first division players better wages on full time contracts.
I know Paul did not set out to f*ck up Harps, he obviously wanted better players, he obviously wanted to be higher up the table but, it didn't work out that way. Football fans are fickle, if Harps were getting results against some of the bigger teams our crowds would be double what they are now.

The blame must lie at a few peoples feet but lessons will be learned and we will hopefully come out of this alot stronger and wiser for the experience.

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Originally Posted by robertob

But seriously, I can't understand why so many clubs has big financial problems. I mean, where is the problem to spend only so much money wich they really have? If I haven't money I can't buy that what I want or I can't spend more as I have. That's life.

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To be blunt robertob it is simply because the majority of people involved in running senior football clubs in Ireland are nothing more than well meaning morons whose only notable characteristics are enthusiasm and a shortsightedness that actually makes me wonder how these people get through life on a day to day basis. Clubs that have to renegotiate contracts should get punished as well while I'm at it. A player will get fairly short shrift in most cases in this league is he walks in mid season and demands an improved contract because he's doing better than expected. Quite why clubs get away with miscalculating/lying about income streams is anybody's guess.

I heard the other day that there's only two clubs in the league this season who haven't delayed wages at some stage or another. If half true, that's a fairly damning indictment of our 'professional' league.

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Originally Posted by HarpsinDublin

Hopefully this is on the way in the not too distant future. However, a winning team is the only thing that Donegal people (not the diehards of the Harps support) will turn out in numbers to watch.

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My GOD, you think the same way a board does. A winning team is the last part of a very big jigsaw. The stadium is a kip and the youth development is a joke. You really think that people will pay money to a barn shed and a team of Derry City rejects?

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Originally Posted by HarpsinDublin

Intense PR and marketing. The Harps PRO for last season was given an award by the Soccer Writers Association of Ireland. We have upwards of seven or eight newspapers in Donegal that give Harps top billing in their soccer section. A winning team is the only thing that Donegal people (not the diehards of the Harps support) will turn out in numbers to watch.

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The GAA coverage dwarfs the Harps coverage and Highland Radio seem more concerned with West Ham, Hull and Barnet etc. And what about a supporters club and local branches in every town and links with other organisations. As far as I can see its catchment area is Ballbofey and not Donegal wide. As mentioned previously on here the atmosphere and lack of supporter organisation at Harps is crap.

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Originally Posted by HarpsinDublin

A professional team. Not sustainable in the current format as has been evidenced this season. You cannot turn players overnight into professional players. This should be done on a gradual basis phasing it in over four to five seasons, starting with the younger players in the squad. Unfortunately time is not something most clubs are prepared to invest in their pursuit of success.

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Not sustainable when you pay too big of wages. The team is ahead in fitness and physic over the likes of Cobh and UCD and even Bray and Rovers. the results prove this. Professionalism does work and is working. What more do you expect, European Qualification? Pats, Drogs, Bohs etc are spending 2M+ trying to do this and not able to do it each season.

Professionalism is sustainable when the facilities and PR are in place along with a productive youth system to provide the players. Professionalism doesn't mean you have to pay a manager over a grand a week and pay players big wages. Minimum wage is all that is required.

As far as I can see its the amateurism off the field that is the problem, not the professionalism on the field. Apart fromt the binges the players went on before the Galway and SLigo matches etc the results indicate that professionalism in the modest form on the field is working.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

I think that's a fair summation Dodge. The budget was a stretch, but not completely outrageous.

Even a small thing like having Derry at home twice rather than away twice could have seen us keep the wages paid until the end of the season. It's only another 6 or 7 weeks of course. Mind you you can bet that there's a hell of a lot of other creditors as well.

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Good point and thanks to the FAI the Derry match, which is our big money spinner for the season, was on a Tuesday :rolleyes:

The Friday night option instead of Saturday night is a disaster too.

Slightly off topic but any update on the start of the bohs meltdown?

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Originally Posted by Mr A

So you're perfectly happy with DCFC's current location, and don't feel the club should look to move to another part of they city then?

Or could it be that the only realistic prospect of getting the facilities you need is more or less where you're at already?

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The club has insisted since Brandywell Properties came into being that the only show in town in terms of getting a new stadium was the Brandywell.

I myself would prefer if the club moved elsewhere to Fort George, my preferred choice or even to Templemore. Fort George would provide the space for a new stadium and open up new options for commercial development and income. There is easier access to that area from all areas of the city and from Donegal, from Belfast and from the South. It's my preferred choice and a lot of people on Derry City Chat agree with this but the club has made it clear that the only place that a new stadium would be built is in the Brandywell.

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Originally Posted by stickyjoe

Slightly off topic but any update on the start of the bohs meltdown?

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Yes, I was wondering this myself :o

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Originally Posted by Mr A

It's only another 6 or 7 weeks of course. Mind you you can bet that there's a hell of a lot of other creditors as well.

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All players out of contract at the end of the season?
Unusual to have full time players on less than a 52 week contract.

How big will the drop in wages be after your final league game ?

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Originally Posted by stickyjoe

Slightly off topic but any update on the start of the bohs meltdown?

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I think their court case isn't up for a few weeks yet.

[QUOTE=Sam_Heggy;1032017]He did but his "mate" kenny hijacked 2 of them. Callaghan and McGinn. [/QUOTE

I knew about Callaghan but thsi is the first I've heard about McGinn!

I bet he's glad he signed for Derry now ;)

All our players are out of contract at the end of the season except possibly Gethins.

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Originally Posted by finnpark

My GOD, you think the same way a board does. A winning team is the last part of a very big jigsaw. The stadium is a kip and the youth development is a joke. You really think that people will pay money to a barn shed and a team of Derry City rejects?


The GAA coverage dwarfs the Harps coverage and Highland Radio seem more concerned with West Ham, Hull and Barnet etc. And what about a supporters club and local branches in every town and links with other organisations. As far as I can see its catchment area is Ballbofey and not Donegal wide. As mentioned previously on here the atmosphere and lack of supporter organisation at Harps is crap.


Not sustainable when you pay too big of wages. The team is ahead in fitness and physic over the likes of Cobh and UCD and even Bray and Rovers. the results prove this. Professionalism does work and is working. What more do you expect, European Qualification? Pats, Drogs, Bohs etc are spending 2M+ trying to do this and not able to do it each season.

Professionalism is sustainable when the facilities and PR are in place along with a productive youth system to provide the players. Professionalism doesn't mean you have to pay a manager over a grand a week and pay players big wages. Minimum wage is all that is required.

As far as I can see its the amateurism off the field that is the problem, not the professionalism on the field. Apart fromt the binges the players went on before the Galway and SLigo matches etc the results indicate that professionalism in the modest form on the field is working.

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And you obviously think a shiny new stadium will be full every week, without a winning team on the pitch? I can tell you now it wont! But we will have to wait and see what I can tell you is that in the past Donegal people will come in big numbers to a barn shed and yes a kip of a ground when Harps are winning. Proven fact.

Yes GAA coverage dwarfs Harps coverage but let's have a reality check. How many registered clubs and GAA players are there in the county? How many Harps fans? GAA sells papers and gets people to listen to the radio, like it or not it is also the national sport.

It is up to supporters to start up supporters clubs not the Finn Harps Football Club. Why is there only the B & S SC and Dublin SC still running? Apathy on the part of Finn Harps supporters perhaps. When we won the First Division in 2004 you also had the Donegal Town & District SC (where are they now?) and the Inishowen SC (where are they now?). If you really want me to go on I can go back to S.C.'s that were running in the 80's that are also defunct.

Harps are not paying big wages (if the figures I have heard are true) compared to the likes of the Dublin clubs, Cork, Galway (prior to their crisis) and Derry City but are not sustainable in the current format. I think you agree with this point. Minimum wage might work with some players but not with the majority of them. Most (like ourselves) will insist on getting paid what they think they are worth.

I totally agree with you about the amateurism off the field in point of fact I feel that is one of the reasons we have failed this season. You dont take part-time players and make them professionals by making them full-time.

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Originally Posted by Sheridan

Paying mediocre players a full-time wage won't make them any better, and the benefits of fitness and cohesion are too marginal to be of any consequence in a league where everyone plays basically the same style of football.

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I think the fitness issue is quite important. Last season Cobh finished ahead of Harps. This season it looks like Harps will finish a fair bit ahead of Cobh. The fitness has made a big difference and of course there are other aspects of being full time such as fatigue, focus and motivation.

But I do agree with you that rubbish players should not get paid. I think part time is a total joke though. You are just paying the best amateur players. Wexford Youth's amateur youth system looks the best to me in the long term. Im sure they could turn professional with ana verage wage ~€300.

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Originally Posted by HarpsinDublin

And you obviously think a shiny new stadium will be full every week, without a winning team on the pitch? I can tell you now it wont! But we will have to wait and see what I can tell you is that in the past Donegal people will come in big numbers to a barn shed and yes a kip of a ground when Harps are winning. Proven fact.

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No, but the stadium is a good first step. have a pro step before having a decent stadium makes no sense. The stadium is of a higher priority.

Harps are doing ok, out of the relegation zone, were 2nd last season :confused: The on field performance seems good to me :confused: What do you expect? Champions, Europe, Champions League? ....

Ive been to Finn Harps for winning games. The stadium is a kip and the atmosphere is crap. I don't know why I go back. The football part is ok even when we lose. With full time club officials its up tot hem to organise and facilitate atmosphere etc