Keith Fahey

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Really? What would you have expected? It was a first round UEFA Cup game on a miserable night with a kick off at the height of rush hour. Were you there? I couldn't get off work early and I'd imagine it was the same for a lot f people. There was only 13,000 in Berlin, does that mean Germany's not a soccer nation? Or deserves no success. Look at the crowds this stage of the UEFA attracts across the continent. Had the game been on a Saturday there'd have been a lot more people at it, I wouldn't be using the attendance today as any criteria.

How many do you reckon we'd have got at Dalyer if it had been Bohs at 5 on a Tuesday night? You're not gonna attract sod all casual fans or even LOI fans from other clubs bar students at that time, no way.

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fair enough - i forgot about the early start (i wasnt there as i live in Canada at the moment) but the general point stands. If we dont support the domestic game in all its forms, we dont deserve (and probably wont have) any international success.

As a fan of the league, im just so frustrated at the lack of interest from supposed soccer fans in this country. It makes no sense. If you love the game you should want to go to as many matches as you can and experience the game and the atmosphere and the craic and the rivalry and the euphoria and the heartache. Its unbeatable.

And the product is good enough that people should be coming, regardless of what the naysayers believe.

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

I don't understand why we keep having this argument.

Let's put subjectivity to one side. That is, arguing over who we think is a good player or not.

Let's instead look to objective criteria, In this case it's quite simple, money.

Put another way, in an open market like professional football a player is usually paid what he is worth. Mistakes and judgment errors aside, generally water finds it's own level and the salary reflects that.

People who make their actual living in the game currently do not rate Fahey at a level where they are willing to spend significant sums paying him. As such, under objective criteria a player who is making 10k a week versus one who is making 1k a week is most likely to be the better player.

So the market will dictate how good Fahey is. At the moment, he's unlikely to of a good enough standard to play at international level. Feelings aside, objectively I am more than likely to be right.

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:o:confused::rolleyes:

You have a clear lack of knowledge on football(its coming out in this thread who actually knows anything about football),if you think money decides whether your a good player.Problem with football is their is too much money how can Bramble get 30k??,Oshea gets more than Chellini(sp?) at Juve is he better than him??

Brilliant Fahey tonight! He was brilliant again on the UEFA Cup level. He is so skilled, plays fantastic passes and has so much power. I love it to watch him, I love his kind of football. I think he could play on a very high level and think he did good advertising for himself today once again. A player like Fahey must get a chance in Nationalteam in my mind.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

YoungIrish is an idiot tbh. I really don't like football fans like him.

Well played by Fahey today. Some sloppy passes but at times his vision and passing was sublime. He really knows what he's doing out there, and looked to me the player with the most quality on the pitch.

I will say one thing Hertha Berlin are overrated. Bohemian said 'better players than what he named(irish players) that was bull**** really. I'd say none of that midfield would make the Irish national team.

I'd love to see Fahey in the green jersey..and he should have been.

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Are you for real he named players playing youth football FFS,your one to call someone an idiot:o

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Originally Posted by robertob

Brilliant Fahey tonight! He was brilliant again on the UEFA Cup level. He is so skilled, plays fantastic passes and has so much power. I love it to watch him, I love his kind of football. I think he could play on a very high level and think he did good advertising for himself today once again. A player like Fahey must get a chance in Nationalteam in my mind.

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Says a german guy who I think is a bit more used to actually watching good footballers than some of the clowns on here.

That is a man who knows what he's talking about.

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Originally Posted by Bohemian1890

Are you for real he named players playing youth football FFS,your one to call someone an idiot:o

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Andy Reid a youth player?

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Originally Posted by Bohemian1890

:o:confused::rolleyes:

You have a clear lack of knowledge on football(its coming out in this thread who actually knows anything about football),if you think money decides whether your a good player.Problem with football is their is too much money how can Bramble get 30k??,Oshea gets more than Chellini(sp?) at Juve is he better than him??

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I'm simply pointing out existing objective criteria we can use to judge players.
While there are inefficiencies in the football market for the most part they are very good indicators of the quality of the player. If Fahey is good enough then he'll find his level which will be at a larger club where he can maximize his potential (read salary). Otherwise, the chances are he isn't good enough for international levek above players playing at significantly higher levels than he is.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

Andy Reid a youth player?

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I left out "some" players,Keith Treacy how many senior games has he played???

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

I'm simply pointing out existing objective criteria we can use to judge players.
While there are inefficiencies in the football market for the most part they are very good indicators of the quality of the player. If Fahey is good enough then he'll find his level which will be at a larger club where he can maximize his potential (read salary). Otherwise, the chances are he isn't good enough for international levek above players playing at significantly higher levels than he is.

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You can never use money to judge a player,every real football fan can tell you that.I could list 10 players if you want me to?? who cost 5 million or more,and earned thousands a week,and i dont know what happened to them.Do you want me to name them??

Fahey was excellent tonight, in fairness, he didn't do a lot wrong, apart from the set-pieces in the first half, which were arguably hindered by the wind.

However, the argument against Fahey playing international football was also there for all to see - some of Fahey's team-mates looked very, very limited, and technically clumsy, particularly up front and on the flanks.

It's hard to judge what Fahey could do at a higher level, and like Aiden McGeady, his overall ability will be under debate until he is playing consistently at a higher level. By the way, I don't support any British teams and I don't take any pleasure in criticising my home league. I enjoy going to matches, the atmosphere is usually good, and the games are generally entertaining. But as Euro 2008 showed, international football is a world apart in terms of pace, strength, fitness, technique, tactics and finishing. And the EL is not ideal preparation for this stage, not by far.

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

Fahey was excellent tonight, in fairness, he didn't do a lot wrong, apart from the set-pieces in the first half, which were arguably hindered by the wind.

However, the argument against Fahey playing international football was also there for all to see - some of Fahey's team-mates looked very, very limited, and technically clumsy, particularly up front and on the flanks.

It's hard to judge what Fahey could do at a higher level, and like Aiden McGeady, his overall ability will be under debate until he is playing consistently at a higher level. By the way, I don't support any British teams and I don't take any pleasure in criticising my home league.

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What would you consider Silvestre,Bramble,half the Newcastle squad or even as a club??

Given,Oshea,kilbane all play with them.Does that affect them??

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Crowd reports say 4-5k turned up. Thats just a disgrace. No other way to put it - its an absolute disgrace. We are not a soccer nation and we get what we deserve.

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Did you really think Bohs, Rovers, Shels fans would go to watch St Pats in the RDS?
Were there many St Pats fans at the Shels game in Lansdowne a few years ago?
Serious questions BTW, I honestly have no idea

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Originally Posted by Bohemian1890

I left out "some" players,Keith Treacy how many senior games has he played???

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think he has played in all of Blackburns games this season

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Originally Posted by Bohemian1890

What would you consider Silvestre,Bramble,half the Newcastle squad or even as a club??

Given,Oshea,kilbane all play with them.Does that affect them??

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More players from the Premiership played in Euro 2008 than any other league. Despite England and Ireland not qualifying. Think that says it all. Only the Spanish and Italian leagues can arguably give better preparation for the international stage. There are some lazy players in the EPL like those you mentioned, but some of the Pat's players tonight, like Kirby and Fitzpatrick, were willing and hard-working, but very, very limited. Hertha were awful today but Pats weren't good enough to score against them. That worries me, in terms of EL teams advancing in Europe, or feeding players into the international set-up. Especially when you see BATE scoring twice against Juventus tonight.

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Originally Posted by Bohemian1890

I left out "some" players,Keith Treacy how many senior games has he played???

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

think he has played in all of Blackburns games this season

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He has played in all but 2 games this season, he was an unused sub against Hull, and again against Newcastle last weekend.

In all games that Treacy has started, Blackburn have gone on to win

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Did you really think Bohs, Rovers, Shels fans would go to watch St Pats in the RDS?
Were there many St Pats fans at the Shels game in Lansdowne a few years ago?
Serious questions BTW, I honestly have no idea

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There was a cork city jersey and a finn harps scarf that I saw at the game today.

I doubt many Pats fans went to see Shels. They were our main rivals at the time.

Fahey, once again, was excellent tonight.

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

More players from the Premiership played in Euro 2008 than any other league. Despite England and Ireland not qualifying. Think that says it all. Only the Spanish and Italian leagues can arguably give better preparation for the international stage. I suppose the fact that Kaka once played with Massimo Donati makes Kaka a cr*p player in your view? Strange logic.

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:eek::mad:I know your team are amateur and that but that is know reason to tell lies after all that seems your logic.
You said this?? "However, the argument against Fahey playing international football was also there for all to see - some of Fahey's team-mates looked very, very limited, and technically clumsy, particularly up front and on the flanks."

then you said this

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

I suppose the fact that Kaka once played with Massimo Donati makes Kaka a cr*p player in your view? Strange logic.

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Your a mess lad,make up your mind.
I asked you a question and you couldn't answer it:rolleyes:



Also we beat BATE 3 nil not so long ago,and knocked them out.

I pointed out that some Irish players play with players like you describe as technically clumsy.



Well would you look at that everybody he edited his post,as the strange logic he accused me of having is actually his own,what a tool.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Did you really think Bohs, Rovers, Shels fans would go to watch St Pats in the RDS?
Were there many St Pats fans at the Shels game in Lansdowne a few years ago?
Serious questions BTW, I honestly have no idea

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tets, i have been to Shels and Pats european games before - also went to Rovers Djurgardens to enjoy them losing and me making a quick buck - and i know plenty of Bohs fans who have done the same, including Drogs games from last year. I also have noticed a number of league jerseys when Bohs have played in Europe so to answer your question, yes, i would expect opposition fans to go along, though not necessarily to cheer them on too enthusiastically. ;)

which leads to my next point - i went along cos i like to watch live footie and to see how irish teams will fare against their european rivals. I think anyone with an interest in footie would (or at least should) consider going to these games. But maybe i am expecting too much from soccer fans, though i dont think so really. Its still 11 men v 11 men and its still enjoyable. The premiership is streets ahead and of course i take an interest in that too but i think that those who really, and i mean really, enjoy the game should go to live games. And thats putting aside the usual support your local team, faux nationalism stuff that is sometimes proffered as a reason to support an irish team. These arguments have merit too but, to me, its more simple than that. If you like soccer, you will take in as much as you can.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

He has played in all but 2 games this season, he was an unused sub against Hull, and again against Newcastle last weekend.

In all games that Treacy has started, Blackburn have gone on to win

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Ok,i don't watch as much British football as i once did.Last time i did he was playing reserve team football.

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Your a mess lad,make up your mind.
I asked you a question and you couldn't answer it

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I realised my mistake, edited the original post.

Look, the EL hasn't produced an Irish player for a competitive international since the early '80s. On the evidence of tonight, against moderate opposition, in a footballing climate where teams from badly-funded and obscure leagues (like BATE and Anorthosis) are getting good results across Europe, what the EL is offering us isn't good enough. Throughout the last 20 years (our international team's most successful period), players from the Championship and Premiership, with the odd player from further afield, have dominated the selection. Do you think that a player from the EL could improve the Irish side now, when the difference in standard is probably more profound than ever?

And don't call me a liar either. I said that the likes of Guy, Fitzpatrick and Rogers are limited. They are, in my opinion. Fahey is clearly too good for the EL, but like Houlihan before him, he will have to move to realise his potential. Just like Conor Sinnott will probably have to leave Youths to realise his.

The Premiership is a better standard than the Eircom League. Are you going to argue with that, or call me a liar for saying so?

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

I realised my mistake, edited the original post.

Look, the EL hasn't produced an Irish player for a competitive international since the early '80s. On the evidence of tonight, against moderate opposition, in a footballing climate where teams from badly-funded and obscure leagues (like BATE and Anorthosis) are getting good results across Europe, what the EL is offering us isn't good enough. Throughout the last 20 years (our international team's most successful period), players from the Championship and Premiership, with the odd player from further afield, have dominated the selection. Do you think that a player from the EL could improve the Irish side now, when the difference in standard is probably more profound than ever?

And don't call me a liar either. I said that the likes of Guy, Fitzpatrick and Rogers are limited. They are, in my opinion. Fahey is clearly too good for the EL, but like Houlihan before him, he will have to move to realise his potential. Just like Conor Sinnott will probably have to leave Youths to realise his.

The Premiership is a better standard than the Eircom League. Are you going to argue with that, or call me a liar for saying so?

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Good post

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

More players from the Premiership played in Euro 2008 than any other league. Despite England and Ireland not qualifying. Think that says it all. Only the Spanish and Italian leagues can arguably give better preparation for the international stage. There are some lazy players in the EPL like those you mentioned, but some of the Pat's players tonight, like Kirby and Fitzpatrick, were willing and hard-working, but very, very limited. Hertha were awful today but Pats weren't good enough to score against them. That worries me, in terms of EL teams advancing in Europe, or feeding players into the international set-up. Especially when you see BATE scoring twice against Juventus tonight.

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Nah,man your in a mess make up your mind,BTW bad edit,as i had already posted what you said:o:rolleyes:
"Well would you look at that everybody he edited his post,as the strange logic he accused me of having is actually his own,what a tool"

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Originally Posted by SkStu

tets, i have been to Shels and Pats european games before - also went to Rovers Djurgardens to enjoy them losing and me making a quick buck - and i know plenty of Bohs fans who have done the same, including Drogs games from last year. I also have noticed a number of league jerseys when Bohs have played in Europe so to answer your question, yes, i would expect opposition fans to go along, though not necessarily to cheer them on too enthusiastically. ;)

which leads to my next point - i went along cos i like to watch live footie and to see how irish teams will fare against their european rivals. I think anyone with an interest in footie would (or at least should) consider going to these games. But maybe i am expecting too much from soccer fans, though i dont think so really. Its still 11 men v 11 men and its still enjoyable. The premiership is streets ahead and of course i take an interest in that too but i think that those who really, and i mean really, enjoy the game should go to live games. And thats putting aside the usual support your local team, faux nationalism stuff that is sometimes proffered as a reason to support an irish team. These arguments have merit too but, to me, its more simple than that. If you like soccer, you will take in as much as you can.

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Good point. I was offered a ticket to the Deportivo game a few years at Lansdowne, and turned it down because I didn't consider myself a Shels fan, or a Depor one of that matter, and didn't want to take the ticket away from a real fan.

Some rubbish on here. Drogheda drew with Kiev in Kiev and Arsenal did the same. The standard in Europe is very high.

I hope Fahy stays at Pats. If he leaves Pats should get at least €5M for him I suspect. Like how much did Voronin and Pantellic and these boys transfer for?

Bohemian1980, I'm not going to debate with anyone who resorts to personal insults.

My main convictions on this issue are illustrated in the above post. If you disagree with them, try to articulate yours with some kind of sense and objectivity and without the name-calling.

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

I realised my mistake, edited the original post.

Look, the EL hasn't produced an Irish player for a competitive international since the early '80s. On the evidence of tonight, against moderate opposition, in a footballing climate where teams from badly-funded and obscure leagues (like BATE and Anorthosis) are getting good results across Europe, what the EL is offering us isn't good enough. Throughout the last 20 years (our international team's most successful period), players from the Championship and Premiership, with the odd player from further afield, have dominated the selection. Do you think that a player from the EL could improve the Irish side now, when the difference in standard is probably more profound than ever?

And don't call me a liar either. I said that the likes of Guy, Fitzpatrick and Rogers are limited. They are, in my opinion. Fahey is clearly too good for the EL, but like Houlihan before him, he will have to move to realise his potential. Just like Conor Sinnott will probably have to leave Youths to realise his.

The Premiership is a better standard than the Eircom League. Are you going to argue with that, or call me a liar for saying so?

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Where did i say that the Premiership is not a better standard than LOI??
That's because players are not being given the chance,just look at Doyle,Murphy,Delaney Long all players who play for Ireland where did they get their football education??

We knocked out BATE,it is the luck of the draw.pats getting a German side where BATE got a poor Anderlecht,Pats beat Elfsborg who knocked out Hibs,Does AOB even get his game for them??


As i said,you are all over the place.Stop trying to dig yourself out of a hole its:o.

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Originally Posted by TheBoss

His performance today was superb, but its not the first time he has produced this, I hope that someone was there from the Ireland setup, he has to be involved.

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I think Tardelli was there to see him. It would be great if Kelleher put a 2-3 year plan in place to build a team thats even better and that would qualify more easily for the UEFA or even CL group stages. Its important to get another good year next year to increase the coefficient points.

Ive only watched a few minutes from both games so cant comment on how well he did, but if Fahey did so well against Hertha over the two legs, lets wait and see if any German club, especially one weaker than Hertha comes in for him. They should be able to pick him up for a few 100K, good buy at that price if hes as good as some people think!

bhs

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Originally Posted by blackholesun

Ive only watched a few minutes from both games so cant comment on how well he did, but if Fahey did so well against Hertha over the two legs, lets wait and see if any German club, especially one weaker than Hertha comes in for him. They should be able to pick him up for a few 100K, good buy at that price if hes as good as some people think!

bhs

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He has 2 years left on his contract after this season. I hope we only let him go for big money.

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Originally Posted by Supreme feet

Bohemian1980, I'm not going to debate with anyone who resorts to personal insults.

My main convictions on this issue are illustrated in the above post. If you disagree with them, try to articulate yours with some kind of sense and objectivity and without the name-calling.

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Easily offended,very fragile mind.:p

Just remember what your trying to say,and dont try and make out,that i was saying stupid things when it was you:);)

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Originally Posted by blackholesun

Ive only watched a few minutes from both games so cant comment on how well he did, but if Fahey did so well against Hertha over the two legs, lets wait and see if any German club, especially one weaker than Hertha comes in for him. They should be able to pick him up for a few 100K, good buy at that price if hes as good as some people think!

bhs

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Pats have already turned down close to half a million for him.

Really no point putting eircom league players in the Ireland section because you just get the usual arguments for the usual suspects.

Fahey is easily good enough to be in the Irish B squad IMO.

And just to pick YoungIrish up on one thing, he didn't fail at Arsenal. He didn't like living in London so Aston Villa paid £250,000 for a 17 year old nearly 8 years ago. He got homesick at Villa and came home with a year left on his contract.

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Originally Posted by Bohemian1890

You can never use money to judge a player,every real football fan can tell you that.I could list 10 players if you want me to?? who cost 5 million or more,and earned thousands a week,and i dont know what happened to them.Do you want me to name them??

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Sure you can. We use money to value people all the time. We call it wages. Forget transfer amounts and focus on what someone is willing to pay a player week in and week out. Clearly there are enough professionals in the game that don't deem Fahey to be worth significant wages.

Perhaps they are not "real" football fans but they probably know a thing or two about the game. Enough of them don't rate him. That might change. I hope it does but until it does I highly doubt that he is good enough for the Irish starting XI.

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

Clearly there are enough professionals in the game that don't deem Fahey to be worth significant wages.

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Doesn't need enough of them. Just needs one

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Originally Posted by charliesboots

Pats have already turned down close to half a million for him

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And lastly, you seem to have a very condescending attitude to anyone who disagrees with you. Going to EI games doesn't make you a "true" football fan or even any more knowledgeable about football than anyone else. It just makes you someone who enjoys going to the Eircom League...and that's it.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Doesn't need enough of them. Just needs one

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One he hasn't yet gotten. If he has the quality that people believe he has then I hope he gets his move. For his own sake so he can maximize the economic return on his talen. Until he does, I don't think he warrants a spot on the international team.

I'm consistently on record as saying he doesn't merit a place in the Irish squad but some English championship teams do think he's worthy of a place in their side. To say he doesn't deserve a call up because of the league he plays in is ridiculous (whether its EPL, LOI, MLS or La Liga)

Judge the player on his own merits

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I'm consistently on record as saying he doesn't merit a place in the Irish squad but some English championship teams do think he's worthy of a place in their side. To say he doesn't deserve a call up because of the league he plays in is ridiculous (whether its EPL, LOI, MLS or La Liga)

Judge the player on his own merits

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I'm not sure we have that luxury though. Given the finite amount of time an international manager has to spend with his players he needs to have some benchmarks or floors if you will. One of them, most likely, is that a player is playing in a high level league. The fact is, the EL is not such a league.

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Originally Posted by Fergie's Son

I'm not sure we have that luxury though. Given the finite amount of time an international manager has to spend with his players he needs to have some benchmarks or floors if you will. One of them, most likely, is that a player is playing in a high level league. The fact is, the EL is not such a league.

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Isn't that what friendlies and B internationals are for? Enough ****ehawks have earned caps in the past 3/4 years, most of them far inferior to Fahey (or Dempsey for that matter)

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Originally Posted by lucanhoop87

yes it does, it makes you much more of a proper fan than someone who can't be arsed to get off their barstool, someone mentioned it previously in this thread that if you love football you should always want to go to games and thus i dont consider someone who doesnt go to regular games to be a proper fan

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no it doesn't. plenty of people can't make it to games, or don't want to see the teams on offer. doesn't make them any less of a football fan

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Originally Posted by lucanhoop87

it makes oyu more knowledgeable in the sense that you make your own opinons on the game, you don't just agree/disagree with what the pundit has said

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attitudes like that are what stop people (including me) from attending more eL games.

What are his weekly wages right now? What does the average player make playing in League 1 over in England? About the same?