Printable View
As for emigrants getting votes, they don't contribute anything to the country (taxes etc.) and aren't affected by decisions of the government so why should they get to decide what happens to those of us who live in Ireland?
PS The emigrant debate should be split off this thread.
it wont happen,this is rep. of ireland not shamrock rovers:D
:ball: :ball: :ball:
How much is the price of passport? 50 Euros? 60 Euros? Me and the missus paid £80 plus another £120 for foreign births certificates so the children could be put on her passport. A pittance, true, but it's £200 more than a lot of the people in Ireland ever contributed to their country. But don't suppose you'll be asking for them to be disenfranchised.Quote:
Originally posted by Schumi
As for emigrants getting votes, they don't contribute anything to the country (taxes etc.)
...and aren't affected by decisions of the government so why should they get to decide what happens to those of us who live in Ireland?
Except that Ireland games may well be closer to home than before. Oh of course those of us who want to move/return to Ireland or just have Irish citizenship, will vote for someone who will turn the country into something like Afghanistan.
Personally, I'd give the vote to all taxpayers in the state, including foreigners, but then the ICP sympathisers will be up in arms about that too.
PS The emigrant debate should be split off this thread.
Like I said, it was a dirty word pre-tiger... Looks like it's still a dirty word today.
If you want to drive a Porsche you can't expect it for as little as the cost of a Fiesta!Quote:
Originally posted by lopez
Me and the missus paid £80 plus another £120 for foreign births certificates so the children could be put on her passport. A pittance, true, but it's £200 more than a lot of the people in Ireland ever contributed to their country.
Irish passports are very valuable as you may already know.
So what's your complaint?
You value the Irish passport but are píssed off because you had to pay for it and some Irish citizens have never contributed to the exchequer? There must be so many things in every day life that upset you? Just imagine this, if we do build a new stadium, it will cost you a fortune to go to the games.
As usual this has brought out those bigoted about the GAA, with their usual rants and criticisms.
However, it's the GAA, who built the state of the art, 80,000 seater stadium, as well as the other 40,000 to 50,000 seater stadiums, with SOME money from the state (a fraction of what the GAA itself has put into communities all over the country in terms of facilities, time and the general health of people).
No other sports association managed it, for all the GAA's faults.
The govt contributed upwards on 100m to Croke Park so i'd hardly say it was a small percentage. Don't think anyone says they don't deserve the cash but surely the FAI are due a similar amount.Quote:
Originally posted by patsh
As usual this has brought out those bigoted about the GAA, with their usual rants and criticisms.
However, it's the GAA, who built the state of the art, 80,000 seater stadium, as well as the other 40,000 to 50,000 seater stadiums, with SOME money from the state (a fraction of what the GAA itself has put into communities all over the country in terms of facilities, time and the general health of people).
No other sports association managed it, for all the GAA's faults.
Fact: More people play football (soccer) than any other sport in Ireland. I also think more kids play 'soccer' in Ireland than any other sport. I know it wasn't always like that but thats the way it is now.
Hmm, you must not have read an earlier post !;) :DQuote:
Originally posted by Conor74
Patsh, ..........................but I agree with you.
As for €100,000,000 pete, it's a drop in the ocean to the worth of the GAA grounds around the country. As for the FACT that more people play soccer than any other sport, it only shows up what an amazing organisation the GAA can be. Instead of Fran Rooney, maybe a few past presidents of the GAA would have been better and cheaper!;)
Don't see what any of thats got to do with the FAI stadium debate. The GAA do a fine job but for a political organisation & the FAI are too concerned with constant infighting but none of this takes away from the FAIs right to a slice of the cash.Quote:
Originally posted by patsh
As for €100,000,000 pete, it's a drop in the ocean to the worth of the GAA grounds around the country. As for the FACT that more people play soccer than any other sport, it only shows up what an amazing organisation the GAA can be. Instead of Fran Rooney, maybe a few past presidents of the GAA would have been better and cheaper!;)
btw excluding Croke Park i get the impression most GAA grounds around the while big 'n all that wouldn't have a chance at passing the upcoming Uefa club licencing let alone be fit for international fixtures.
England don't play in Cardiff unless they're away to Wales.Quote:
Originally posted by Conor74
England prides itself on being the home of football yet play in Cardiff.
They are without a National Stadium at the moment but rotate the venues for their International games. Remember seven years ago they were able to single handedly host the European Championships. Even with the prospect of Croke Park being available we couldn't muster a serious joint bid with Scotland to host the tournament scheduled for 2008.
So I think we can safely leave England out of this argument.
What we need to do is become proactive as a nation rather that taking up our traditional place on the ditch. We've talked for long enough. Now is the time to start building. Hell, I'd even be willing to give up my 23 day's of annual leave and some weekends to carry a hod if needed. The politicians have too much power in this "Democracy". If this country slips into recession we wont have a damn thing to show for the Celtic Tiger.
The irony is that many attribute the origins of the Celtic Tiger to sense of good will and national pride experienced during and after the Euro88 tournament. 15 years later football has prospered little in this country.
GAA are bigoted because they class my (your) sport as an inferior foriegn game - they're quite happy to use Rugby and proper football facilities for training, but not let us use their grounds or facilities. The GAA wouldn't exist in most other countries if it wasn't for football, rugby and even cricket grounds letting them use their facilities. Thats not even getting into the fact that players were banned from the GAA for playing the so called Garrison Games. They are bigots.Quote:
Originally posted by patsh
As usual this has brought out those bigoted about the GAA, with their usual rants and criticisms.
However, it's the GAA, who built the state of the art, 80,000 seater stadium, as well as the other 40,000 to 50,000 seater stadiums, with SOME money from the state (a fraction of what the GAA itself has put into communities all over the country in terms of facilities, time and the general health of people).
No other sports association managed it, for all the GAA's faults.
On the stadium: All the Government had to do was provide us with a similar level of funding to that recieved from the GAA and we already would have our own ground. Instead Bertie left the FAI with no option but to go with Stadium Ireland - no funding and then the bribes on top. The least the Government should do is get it's finger out of it's @rse and come to a decision re the new ground.
btw There is no other 40-50,000 seater Gah grounds - I'd be surprised if any others have even 20000 seats (and less again if you don't count wooden benches). Even croker isn't 80,000 seats
btw2 I thought there was some debate whether even Croker was up to UEFA standards due to the exits? That's not even including the fact that the Hill would be out of action.
And a hell of a lot less than anyone working is paying in PAYE, PRSI, VAT etc etc....Quote:
Originally posted by lopez
A pittance, true, but it's £200 more than a lot of the people in Ireland ever contributed to their country. But don't suppose you'll be asking for them to be disenfranchised.
Again I ask, how can you logically say that you should get a vote in a country that you don't live in? Just because other countries have stupid systems, doesn't mean that we should....
If we'd given those irish-american nationalists (anyone whop visited the US must have met a few) the vote we'd already have invaded the North.Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
Again I ask, how can you logically say that you should get a vote in a country that you don't live in? Just because other countries have stupid systems, doesn't mean that we should....
:rolleyes:
Read my post again. I never said I was p*ssed off with paying for a passport. What, you think I want it for nothing?:rolleyes: I was pointing out that even someone who never lived in Ireland, has contributed more than some on the electoral lists. Try not to be too presumptuous.Quote:
Originally posted by Peader
You value the Irish passport but are píssed off because you had to pay for it and some Irish citizens have never contributed to the exchequer? There must be so many things in every day life that upset you? Just imagine this, if we do build a new stadium, it will cost you a fortune to go to the games.
Macy, can I ask you exactly what did they taught you at school about emigration in history or was it just all Tudors and Victorians as is the case here? I mean we are talking about what was a fundamental pillar of Irish society. Some mock the ignorance of the Irish over emigration as 'just Free State education'. Perhaps that's harsh, but let me put it this way. Between the founding of the Irish FS and perhaps the reforms of Sean Lemmas, the remittances sent home by emigrants kept Ireland afloat, and stopped it being reduced to a country like Mozambique. Also emigration performed as a pressure switch in keeping down what was once the highest unemployment in Europe (Hence Bertie in the eighties going begging to his pals in Irish-America to get Ireland made a special case to increase emigration to the US). Perhaps you might think that this is some old cojones I'm making up. Alas it is true. Check it out! Emigrants, have contributed plenty to Ireland, be it in remittances, contributions to buy arms (either pre or post 1921) or fund political parties to gain the state that you are so proud to live in, or just by paying years of taxes before their departure. That's why a vote, at least for them, is deserved, if not for someone like myself.Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
And a hell of a lot less than anyone working is paying in PAYE, PRISM, VAT etc etc....
Yeah,, yeah. There were plenty in the nineteenth who thought those without a sufficient rateable property (let alone women) should be denied the vote, so I'm hardly impressed by your equally stoopid argument.Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
Again I ask, how can you logically say that you should get a vote in a country that you don't live in? Just because other countries have stupid systems, doesn't mean that we should....
How many Irish- Americans have JUST Irish citizenship?:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Pete
If we'd given those irish-american nationalists (anyone whop visited the US must have met a few) the vote we'd already have invaded the North.:rolleyes:
Are you saying Parkhead would only be a bad idea in practice, not on principle?Quote:
Originally posted by pete
Playing Parkhead would be a complete disaster.
Millenium Stadium in Cardiff would be good option if required - they used to tens of thousands of people visiting for games in the city.
I disagree. And Cardiff would be little better. The problem isn't any perceived sectarianism, as much as the political difficulty of playing in another country. I know the English rationalise staging their cup finals in Cardiff by saying 'yes, but their clubs play in our league'. Obviously Ireland couldn't argue that.
Lopez- your broad point (that emigrants contributed plenty to Ireland) is a fair one. But you don't help it with exaggerated comparisons (ie Mozambique). Most ex-colonial African countries have long been markedly poorer than Ireland- measurable by GDP, infrastructure, life expectancy and the rest. And in any case the direct benefit to the Irish economy from remittances etc. has been marginal.
Not an exaggeration perhaps, but the worse case scenario.Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Lopez- your broad point (that emigrants contributed plenty to Ireland) is a fair one. But you don't help it with exaggerated comparisons (ie Mozambique).
In the era discussed three things combined to highlight the importance of emigration. First, emigrant families were far more dependent on money being sent back home than now. Secondly, the social repercussions of from even higher unemployment would have crippled the economy had it not been for emigration. Thirdly, from a (partitioned) country with negligible industry (compared with today), the remittances impact on the country's foreign reserves would have disproportionally higher. To say emigrants contributed nothing for the country is rubbish.Quote:
[i]..and in any case the direct benefit to the Irish economy from remittances etc. has been marginal.
Getting back to football. BA is the man who promised so much, but delivered f*ck all. Remember that at the next election!
Quote:
Originally posted by Macy
GAA are bigoted because they class my (your) sport as an inferior foriegn game - they're quite happy to use Rugby and proper football facilities for training, but not let us use their grounds or facilities. The GAA wouldn't exist in most other countries if it wasn't for football, rugby and even cricket grounds letting them use their facilities. Thats not even getting into the fact that players were banned from the GAA for playing the so called Garrison Games. They are bigots.
Seems to me they are in good company then with your average league of Ireland supporter who looks down his nose at someone who supports a "foreign" team from "across the water".
Bigots the lot of ye!
Except that Eircom League fans have notQuote:
Originally posted by Lionel Hutz
Seems to me they are in good company then with your average league of Ireland supporter who looks down his nose at someone who supports a "foreign" team from "across the water".
Bigots the lot of ye!
- institutionally discriminated against the minority population in Ireland for decades ('British security personnel' being a euphemism for 'unionists')
- received large-scale public investment for infrastructure while simultaneously
- refusing access to that infrastructure to the taxpaying fans of other sports who've paid for it.
PS I saw in the Irish Indo the other day that the bold Gerard is now the most popular party leader. Aye, Bertie out :)
exactlyQuote:
Originally posted by patsh
As usual this has brought out those bigoted about the GAA, with their usual rants and criticisms.
However, it's the GAA, who built the state of the art, 80,000 seater stadium, as well as the other 40,000 to 50,000 seater stadiums, with SOME money from the state (a fraction of what the GAA itself has put into communities all over the country in terms of facilities, time and the general health of people).
No other sports association managed it, for all the GAA's faults.
ppl seem very bitter at the GAA for pulling off a big coup and getting the govt to shell out alot of money for the revdeveloped croker..fair play to them.. its a great fcuking stadium and one of the best in europe..
if the FAI cant lever that kinda money from the govt then it not the GAAs fault !
Imagine a world where the wages, from Roy Keane and Damian Duff right down to the lowly part timer, were taken away by the FAI? No need for any 'big coup' or levering then.
None of which takes away from the fact that yer average league of Ireland fan is as narrow minded as the ruling body of the GAA only as yer average GAA fan in the street doesnt really care if soccer is played in GAA grounds or not.Quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner
Except that Eircom League fans have not
- institutionally discriminated against the minority population in Ireland for decades ('British security personnel' being a euphemism for 'unionists')
- received large-scale public investment for infrastructure while simultaneously
- refusing access to that infrastructure to the taxpaying fans of other sports who've paid for it.
PS I saw in the Irish Indo the other day that the bold Gerard is now the most popular party leader. Aye, Bertie out :)
A case of the pot calling the kettle black in my opinion