Republic of Ireland V Brazil - Wednesday, 6th February 2008 - Friendly

Central Midfield is a huge problem. We can cope in all other areas, We have good strikers & decent centre half's, a world class keeper, quality wingers and I wouldnt worry too much about full backs. Kelly is a good player, Kilbane will be ok until we find a left back.

But we have problems in the middle, We need Steven Reid fit and with alot of games under his belt if we are to have any chance of qualifying for 2010. We can use him as a Defensive Mid.

Now, I would like to throw the name of Owen Garvan into tyhe ring for a sqaud call up. I cant understand why he hasnt got called up already. He is the first name on the team sheet at Ipswich, an ever present, a very good young player in a team challenging for the Championship Playoffs.
He & James McArthy of Hamilton are our midfield of the future. Andy Reid is a great passer but not sure about him as a centre mid, and he is always injured. I am not sure about Stephen Ireland either, also a great passer but jury is out on him.

Owen Garvan for Ireland.

Also, I would love to see Stokes get the finger out at Sunderland. Bags of unfulfilled potential, looks a bit lazy for me.

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Laughable? What I find laughable is that Hunt is our third highest placed player in the Actim index and he is not even in the starting line-up. Of course these indexes are a joke as are similar results in other indexes like fantasy football and sky ratings etc.......

But I guess these are all wrong too...

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I think generally that Hunt is brilliant, but frankly he could pull all the previous Actim index certificates in the world from out of his own arse tonight, and it wouldnt make a blind bit of difference as far as people asserting that he had a poor game this evening is concerned.

That's because he did. Very poor.

Sometimes good players have bad games. Tonight was Hunt's. Don't take it personally. It wasn't a real game, it was only a Don Givens Select XI.

I thought it was an okay performance, nothing to get excited about.

Givens: Did fine. Totally missed an inswinging cross in the second half.
Kelly: Would have been sent-off if it was a competitive fixture.
Dunne: Sloppy at times but we'd be lost without him in the centre of defence.
O'Shea: Did well, our best option to partner Dunne
Kilbane: Good going forward, needs a good coach to help with the positional side of things
Duff: Why was he on the right? Great to see him back in the team.
Miller: Ok.
Carsley: Can't pass the ball.
McGeady: Good - but one criticism. Great chance to play Duff free in the second half but took too many touches on the ball and Duff was ruled offside.
Doyle: Invisible.
Keane: Looked lively.
Potter: A Championship standard player and it showed.
Hunt: Lost the ball just outside our box by attempting to dribble past two Brazilians. Did the exact same thing in the game against the Welsh. Needs a haircut.

Don Givens: What is it with the finger over the mouth thing? Makes you wonder where that finger has been .....

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Originally Posted by ifk101

McGeady: Good - but one criticism. Great chance to play Duff free in the second half but took too many touches on the ball and Duff was ruled offside.

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That one was as a case of head down and run to out pace the Brazilian. As soon as he got past the Brazilian he lifted his head up and played Duff through. Too late though.

Fair play to Robbie Keane last night, he worked his socks off and only for the keepers quick reaction would have had a goal.

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Originally Posted by danonion

We can take a few things from this game.
Shay Given was solid as ever; looked menacing in a dark strip.

Damien Duff beat his man repeatedly - struck a ferocious shot on target that the keeper couldn't hold and looked a threat. He also looked like he had pace and a good level of fitness - two things I did not expect for him to ever recover after that injury.

O'Shea and Dunne - Now don't shoot me for saying this but in some way they kind of compliment each other. O'Shea's headed clearances have by-and-large improved. Dunne made only one big mistake, and as Jon Champion pointed out, it was quite a surprise because he has really been a pillar of consistency

Kelly had a few good tackles. One in particular in the second half early on ... I can't remember what minute. He then proceeded to try and run it out like he was Mark Lawrenson.

Kilbane looked OK at fullback. It is clearly not his position but he is quite strong and still has some speed. One moment of skill in the Brazilian penalty area stood out for me when he beat his man at the by-line left side of the penalty area and put in a cross. Cross was too high but if we didn't have midget strikers we could have been lauding his skill.

Lee Carsley could have possibly done better with regards to the goal we conceded, but he looked fit and sharp enough. He is known to be a fitness/health fanatic - don't be surprised if he plays through the whole of the next campaign, at least in a squad member capacity.

Keane and Doyle were quiet enough (easy to say when a strike partnership doesn't score). Bad move by Don Givens not to bring Fintan Morrison because replacing Doyle with Hunt meant we had too many tricky small players in the attacking positions.

Miller isn't really ever going to be good enough, is he?

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Who's Fintan Morrison? Wasn't he in Stanley Staunton's assistant manager's Bryan Robson's squad :confused:

Was it just me, but what was with all these short passes last night. Several times we had possession inside the Brazil half or just on half way and we moved it with a short pass. Now there's nothing wrong with a quick short pass if it is done because someone spots something or the other team are not set up but again and again it ended up back at either the center back or the keeper.
Even Richard Dunne got p***ed of with it at one point.

Strange.

I think some people really underestimate McGeady's intelligence. He's certainly not brainless.

"Exceptional skill on the ball, with more than a few crowd-pleasing pieces of trickery. But sometimes failed to spot the right option, while the discerning coach could be concerned about the lack of cover he offers his full back in an attacking 4-4-2. Still, a huge player for Ireland in the near future and beyond - provided he continues to mature and he’s deployed to good effect."

I don't understand that one at all. When did he fail to spot the right option? Fair enough he failed to play the ball to Duff. That's all I can think of. Nothing about holding on to the ball for a couple of seconds while Kilbane overlapped and then playing a ball over the top (granted it went out of play)? You could predict the analysis of McGeady before a ball is kicked.

I thought Liam Miller was doing ok (he did dilly dally on the ball a few too many times though) but when he got injured to be replaced by Darren Potter, this guy is really out of his depth and that is not his fault he has been picked, but he just didn't want the ball, a centre midfielder that shy's away from receving a pass is not a centre midfielder but a water carrier. Everytime he made no movement into space and when Duff or Kilbane or anyone on the flanks picked the ball up looked in field Potter raised his right or left arm depending on which side to suggest a pass over his head away from him and to anyone else. Someone mentioned he was a championship player, on that performace i wouldn't start him for Havant & Waterlooville. IMO

Agree with all the comments about central midfield. I said during the live stream last night that the any 2 of the 3 lads who played in the U21 game on Tuesday offer more than the Miller / Carsley pairing.

I thought Potter was better than Miller and Carsley had a better second half as a result. Potter doesn't do anything flash but avoids trouble better than Miller and brings others into the game far more in my opinion. He's much more the Didi Hamann type of player we need but a very poor man's version. Potter & Reid did a very good job in Copenhagen if I recall right. Garvan's time must be coming though.

I like Carsley but just don't think he's mobile enough at this level. You need more than just a few "clatters". He fulfils an important role at Everton, but there he's Sid Little to the Eddie Large of Arteta & Cahill. For Ireland it's Sid Little with Fr. Stone and it just ain't funny.

McGeady showed what a great talent he is. Whelan was right about his final ball or taking a touch or two too many at times but his overall contribution was important.

The back 4 were generally good and Dunne-O'Shea has to be the first choice CB partnership. Kelly didn't convince but one atrocious tackle aside I thoght he was ok.

Robbie was lively but Doyle wasn't at the races last night. Morrison should have been available.

Hunt was a huge disappointment I thought.

Anyway, I believe it's all ok as Don is rumoured to have said "results aren't important at senior international level, it's my job to develop players for the SKy Masters international tournament".


Biggest plus of the night? Georgia losing 3-1 at home to Latvia!

Last night confirmed that there's certainly the nucleous of a decent team for the new manager to work with.

That said - I thought Carsley and Miller failed to impose themselves on the game from an offensive point of view, but they were up against lads of particular technical ability.

If Carsley had a wider range of passsing I think McGeady and Duff may have stole a march on the Brazilian defence on a couple more occasions.

Was encouraged to see Duff show the early signs of regaining the old swagger. He looked somthing remotely near the player he once was in the 2nd half and I'm hoping its match fitness that's keeping from hitting top gear so far.

The next few months are crucial for Duff. A further run of poor performances could see him consigned to the bench for Newcastle as the pressure begins to mount on Keegan. He needs to lift his game on a consistent basis.

Doyle was anonymous last night but that is partly due to the quality of service he got. Would like to see Murphy alongside Keane as a Plan B.

I've criticised Robbie Keanes lacklustre performances in the past but I thought he'd a good game last night and looked sharp.

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Originally Posted by jebus

First live game with Ireland in just over 15 years and I have a few comments to make.

Ireland are as hopeless tactically as Limerick 37
It really is run at the opposition and hope for the best isn't it?

Brazil's reserve team wanked on what was nearly a full Irish team and could have scored more if they could be arsed
People will call me a wum for saying it, but it's true, and yet a lot of you expect this team to qualify for the world cup

The atmosphere was equal to Limerick playing away to Kilkenny last year

And that's probably doing last year's Kilkenny-Limerick 37 game a diservice. All in all it confirmed why I couldn't give two figs about international football in general and the Republic of Ireland national team in particular

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Have to say agree with most of this. Atmosphere at match was non existant. Only had to look at the Brazil fans for a comparison. A lad I work who is a Real Sociedad fan went to the match. His first time seeing Ireland. He couldnt get over how technically inept they were. He was genuinely baffled at the way they played or attempted to play that is. What we saw last nite and what we have seen for a long time has been below par. Is it too much to ask that our international team can put their foot on the ball and use it intelligently? Its got nothing to do with being positive Neil or wanting to be part of some utopian irish fan society you are trying to build (probably best not call it "Neilstown" btw.) As for Mageady he did beat men but running diagnolly accross midfield will tend to do that. no end product tho. impact sub at best.

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Originally Posted by Spanner

I was relating it to the term 'brainless winger' - not sure if you've heard it before - harks back to the days when wingers were more popular -not necessarily meaning the bloke hasn't got a brain.

Just think he could employ his brain bit more in defensive situations, provide some cover, help out his left back and mark players!!!! Maybe he doesn't have to do too much of that in the SPL, maybe I expect to much of a left midfielder then at Intl level...Halleluiah!

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Nah he wouldn't get a sniff under Strachan if he didn't work back off the ball. He'll always track back for Celtic when they don't have possession. He picked up 6 bookings and a suspension fairly quickly this season, most of them for badly timed tackles. He's not a great defender but he doesn't lack the effort. Duff I thought was brilliant tracking back last night though.

Can't believe the lack of enthusiasm towards McGeady's performance last night by a few on here. Celtic fans must have much, much lower standards than Ireland fans because that was McGeady in form last night.

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McGeady - I'd go with him for motm (Dunne being the other contender). He beat the Brazilians with ease and rarely failed to find an Irish player with a pass.

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In the second half, duff was better and overall in that half made more of a contribution than mcgeady did in both halves I reckon, what I will say for mcgeady was that he brought relief to the backs by charging up midfield, but the end product was not there on most occassions, I know whelan got a bit of a b in his bonnet about it, but I was in agreement with him, Mcgeady needs to learn when to fire the trigger. That pass to duff was a clear example 3 touches too many, when duff should have been played through way earlier, though hopefully thats just experience and he will learn - then again he has been playing CL for the last 3 years now so maybe its not.

Have to say was very impressed with Duff when he got a bit of confidence, wasn't afraid to have a go like the old duff. I am really worried about our defence though, we were very poor, anyone who cant see that doesn't realise that brazil good have if they really pushed got 3 past us.

Hunt - well this was the fear i had about him, he can be a breath of fresh air but he can be frustrating, his one dimension football was easily sussed out by Brazil. Though that run with the head down and ball in his feet was good and brought a smile. I think impact sub is definitely his best position.

Again, midfield is the big big problem, we create very few striker-goal-scoring opportunites because keane and even doyle have to play so deep cos no presence in midfield. You never see Ireland construct a passing movement through the midfield that ends up in a near goal, its always down the wings, whereas almost everything in the u21 game came through the midfield first ( like EB said earlier ). That is a promising sign and hopefully these lads will continue onto the senior team and in another year ( halfway through the campaign ) we could have a very well balanced team.

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

Have to say agree with most of this. Atmosphere at match was non existant. Only had to look at the Brazil fans for a comparison. A lad I work who is a Real Sociedad fan went to the match. His first time seeing Ireland. He couldnt get over how technically inept they were. He was genuinely baffled at the way they played or attempted to play that is. What we saw last nite and what we have seen for a long time has been below par. Is it too much to ask that our international team can put their foot on the ball and use it intelligently? Its got nothing to do with being positive Neil or wanting to be part of some utopian irish fan society you are trying to build (probably best not call it "Neilstown" btw.) As for Mageady he did beat men but running diagnolly accross midfield will tend to do that. no end product tho. impact sub at best.

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It was a joke Bill.

I thought Miller was good(bar one concession of play) before h came off injured, he was very tidy on the ball and his passing was neat.

Thought McGeady was good,,excellent at beating his man, but his final ball was poor on many occasion.

O'Shea and Dunne partnership is far more reassuring than having McShame in there.

Robbie was quiet but worked tirelessly and tried some inventive passing!

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

In the second half, duff was better and overall in that half made more of a contribution than mcgeady did in both halves I reckon, what I will say for mcgeady was that he brought relief to the backs by charging up midfield, but the end product was not there on most occassions, I know whelan got a bit of a b in his bonnet about it, but I was in agreement with him, Mcgeady needs to learn when to fire the trigger. That pass to duff was a clear example 3 touches too many, when duff should have been played through way earlier

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That's the only example really. At the time I thought he had his down purely to beat his man for pace. I definitely want to see it again. He's not that type of player that doesn't realise the runs his teammates are making. He usually always has his head up. He tried a cross in the first half which he scuffed low into the box but that's the only time he didn't find an Irish player with his final ball from what I can remember. You can't just ignore Duff's poor first half and say he was better overall.

Obviously I'm biased when it comes to McGeady but I don't think it clouds my judgement. Hopefully not anyway. I'd like someone to provide more examples of his poor final ball. I'm gonna watch the match again anyway.

Few points:

Better from McGeady, but his end product is still missing. Ive noticed he does it alot for celtic as well - long charging runs and then loses the ball when he shouldve passed alot earlier.

O'Shea: His best position imo is centre half, played ok, at fault for diving in which lead to the space for the goal.

Kelly: Did well, few errors but is improving and looks to be a good option for the future.

Miller: Few nice touches, carried the ball well but lost it too easily at times and pushed off the ball too easily as well.

Duff: Great to see him back, he's not long back from injury and did well considering.

Keane: Works his socks off with little supply, easily our best striker.

Doyle: Im really starting to doubt this guy, hes having a poor season and ive never seen anything to convince me he's near as good as Keane. Ive seen him play right wing for Reading once or twice and I wonder would he be better used there?

Poor atmosphere, imo croker isnt really suited to football plus loads of day trippers. In summary its a friendly 7 months before our next real game so not a huge lot to be drawn from it.

Saw the highlights on rte after, looks like the rte boys are very keen on a Trap and Brady management team.

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Originally Posted by Billsthoughts

He couldnt get over how technically inept they were. He was genuinely baffled at the way they played or attempted to play that is. What we saw last nite and what we have seen for a long time has been below par. Is it too much to ask that our international team can put their foot on the ball and use it intelligently?

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Agree to a large extent but what many here have pointed out that it's a dearth of central midfielders that is the root of the problem. Central midfield is so sub-standard that the rest of the team struggles to function. CM should be a conduit from the back 4 to the front 2 or the wide men. I also think that speculative rather than measured passing is far too common in our game. Full backs chipping the ball 30 yards up the touchline, Carsley thinking he's Tom Brady picking out Robbie Keane from 40 yards etc.

Bill, did you see the U21 game? From the start Ireland set about playing a crisp, up-tempo passing game and having seen the drivel we've seen from the senior team in the last few years it was really good to see. You might even have liked it.

As for the atmosphere: it was an exhibition match with even less meaning than the usual friendlies as there was no manager in place. When the Bulgarians or others come to town with something for us to play for it'll be a different story. You don't tend to get an atmosphere at club friendlies either and I'll bet there wasn't much atmosphere at many of the other friendlies last night.

Croker is too big for us in my opinion anyway. Many have criticised the capacity of the new Lansdowne as beeing too small, I think it's just right.

I didn't realise Neil was joking. I was putting Tuesday nights into my diary :(

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Originally Posted by Spanner

I'm not being intentionally negative but thought Miller was muck - tried to walk the ball out of defence on numerous occassions and was caught! To do that against any opposition at intl level is foolish but against the Samba Boys in second gear - arrogant at best! He will not be a regular in the next set-up.

I think alot of people are looking for the best in a bad situation and that's understandable I guess but not great by any means.

Hoop-tinted glasses are obviously all the rage :rolleyes:

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Sunderland wear hoops? :)