AIL Update

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

Eh, no? Why would they care about bloody athlone who might not even make this season, let alone an AIL

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Because what if the AIL falls flat on its face and flops? What makes you think that the premiership brigade are going to latch on to the new super league and thus give the sponsors value for their buck? The sponsors will only stick around if the league is an unqualified success, all this commercial backing is all about making profit from a potential product at the end of the day. So if it flops, and the sponsors leg it, what about all the other EL and IL clubs that weren't invited to the talks? What are they supposed to do in the meantime? Just leave them there to die? Irish football would be in a nice state then :rolleyes: In any case, a one division league would be a laughing stock and a load of b*****ks. It's fantasy stuff that will not work unless there is a proper structure from a Premier to a Division 2/3/4, and with both associations on board.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Regardless - I simply cannot see the IFA and FAI merrily existing in isolation from the major senior clubs in the island.

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I agree with you, which is why I asked Fran Gavin those questions at the recent Abbotstown forum. He didn't like answering them, but he answered them. And when I asked him about what the FAI are doing NOW about the AIL, we were basically told that they were doing nothing and that this AIL idea was just an idea driven by a few clubs and some sponsors, and that at the end of the 5 year agreement his job was done and the clubs were free to do what they liked after that. Wouldn't exactly fill you with confidence. My opinion would be that the FAI should be getting involved now and looking at it NOW. Cos it certainly would be to their advantage (over the IFA) if they were involved in a league that had Linfield and Glentoran absconding to, but more importantly, they could structure it proprely so that it could be a proper multi-divisional league, a true AIL if you like.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

what about all the other EL and IL clubs that weren't invited to the talks? What are they supposed to do in the meantime? Just leave them there to die? Irish football would be in a nice state then :rolleyes:

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They would be stuck at semi-pro or amatuer level, with terrible fanbases, poor off the field management and little or no hope of ever bettering themselves.

So essentially, the same position they are in now.

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In any case, a one division league would be a laughing stock and a load of b*****ks.

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Funny how you say that given that your own club is entirely unlikely to ever feature.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Because what if the AIL falls flat on its face and flops? What makes you think that the premiership brigade are going to latch on to the new super league and thus give the sponsors value for their buck? The sponsors will only stick around if the league is an unqualified success, all this commercial backing is all about making profit from a potential product at the end of the day. So if it flops, and the sponsors leg it, what about all the other EL and IL clubs that weren't invited to the talks? What are they supposed to do in the meantime? Just leave them there to die? Irish football would be in a nice state then :rolleyes: In any case, a one division league would be a laughing stock and a load of b*****ks. It's fantasy stuff that will not work unless there is a proper structure from a Premier to a Division 2/3/4, and with both associations on board.

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Firstly - define "collapse". It would only collapse if all the clubs incvolved walked away from it. If sponsorship etc didn't live up to the original expectations, I still couldn't see clubs walking away unless it became a complete and utter red herring. So lopng as it was better thasn what we had it will remain in place. And let's face it - it wouldn't be hard to be better than what each league currentyl has - on so many levels. Rovers playing Linfield will always have more appeal than Rovers playing UCD, for example. So your talk of collapese is just plain daft. It would only collapse if clubs walked away from it once it had begun - which is an extremely unlikely end point.

Secondly - who's talking about a single division except you ?? :confused: Even the extremely limited info we've had on the AIL to-date is talking about promotion and relegation at some point. That therefore suggests a linked structure below. You're the only one who's talking about neagtives like that.

You're clearly anti the whole idea - whcih is fair enough (and I suspect influenced by the fact your own club is likely to be excluded from it, at least originally). But please don't let that colour your judgement to the point where your arguements dion't hold any water.

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...k=view&id=2817

Reaction to the momentum the Plantinum One proposal is generating I'd say.

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Originally Posted by Graemerz

If there was an All-Ireland league the only teams that would have a good travelling away support would be Linfield and Derry City. Fact!

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:confused:

Given that Lnfield barely bring triple figures to European aways, why do you think up to 10 times as many will similarly bother their arses to travel to Galway.

Glentoran's away Setanta crowds have remained impressive, despite the awfulness endured on the pitch. With the exception of Derry away (last season), our away crowds have matched - and bettered - Linfield's.

"Fact!":rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Lux Interior

:confused:

Given that Lnfield barely bring triple figures to European aways, why do you think up to 10 times as many will similarly bother their arses to travel to Galway.

Glentoran's away Setanta crowds have remained impressive, despite the awfulness endured on the pitch. With the exception of Derry away (last season), our away crowds have matched - and bettered - Linfield's.

"Fact!":rolleyes:

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Yeah Glens have had a good away support in the Setanta,
Not so sure about your home support though

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Firstly - define "collapse". It would only collapse if all the clubs incvolved walked away from it. If sponsorship etc didn't live up to the original expectations, I still couldn't see clubs walking away unless it became a complete and utter red herring. So lopng as it was better thasn what we had it will remain in place. And let's face it - it wouldn't be hard to be better than what each league currentyl has - on so many levels. Rovers playing Linfield will always have more appeal than Rovers playing UCD, for example. So your talk of collapese is just plain daft. It would only collapse if clubs walked away from it once it had begun - which is an extremely unlikely end point.

Secondly - who's talking about a single division except you ?? :confused: Even the extremely limited info we've had on the AIL to-date is talking about promotion and relegation at some point. That therefore suggests a linked structure below. You're the only one who's talking about neagtives like that.

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Firstly, this league is not going to grasp the imagination of the whole country if it just involves Dublin, Cork, Derry and Belfast! And unless it grasps the imagination of the whole country, IT IS a red herring. In other words, a waste of time.
Secondly, how many clubs have been invited to discussions? As far as I can see, just enough to create a one division league. What do you mean by 'at some point'? What kind of a mickey mouse botch of an attempt at a setting up a league is that? Either you do it right from the start with the correct structures, or you don't do it at all. But of course it would take our know-it-all clubs, who've mad a complete arse of their existence from their inception right up to today, to go about setting up a league with promotion and relegation and thus competitiveness as an after thought 'at some point' :rolleyes: :p

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

You're clearly anti the whole idea - whcih is fair enough (and I suspect influenced by the fact your own club is likely to be excluded from it, at least originally). But please don't let that colour your judgement to the point where your arguements dion't hold any water.

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I am not anti the whole idea. I am pro AIL, but ONLY under the stewardship of the FAI and the IL, because frankly, our clubs wouldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery. And I am pro AIL only on the basis that it is a properly structured 2/3/4 tier all Ireland league with proper structures throughout. You ask any EL/IL fan what their idea or definition of an AIL is, and it certainly won't be one run by the so called biggest clubs with scant regard for everyone else.

As regards your smart comment about Limerick, it wasn't so long ago that you lot had to get John Hume to drag u out of the s**t. If Derry were in that state right now and weren't flavour of the month, would you be in a position to be even at the top table of these discussions? No you would not. And look at Galway now. Three years ago or so they were a club in serious trouble. Now they've got a pretty impressive stadium, a sound financial footing and premier league football. And all done without the help of a politician. In three years time Limerick have a 7000 all seater stadium to look forward to, and one thats not costing us a cent. It'll probably be far superior to the Brandywell. So if I were you I'd get off that high horse of yours. Just because a club isn't flavour of the month does not mean you exclude them. It's 'football' people like you that make me sick...

Thankfully the FAI and IFA have come out with a statement today reiterating what I have been saying. NO AIL without them. So let's hope they interven sooner rather than later and get involved with the clubs from the outset.

4tothefloor,

You are hardly doing yourself any favours with an ill conceived rant.

Given Derry's geographical location, population centre and our unique history in Irish football, we are always going to be at the table when it comes to talks for an AIL.

No AIL is going to grasp the attention of the country, to think otherwise is ridiculous. The proposal needs to gain the attention and support of those in the population centres and the related sponsors.

Do you have any idea how many clubs have been invited to discussions? More than required for one league. Fact.

I don't know what you point regarding promotion and relegation is, as there is a defined structure in place in the Platinum Proposal. As regards thoughts of EL/IL fans on what an AIL means, I am sure plenty would be perfectly happy with the league of the biggest clubs, with scant regard for the rest as you say. Even the FAI are realistic enough to say that there will be a "realignment" of the clubs.

Like yourself I am anti the Platinum Proposal but the reality is an 2/3/4 tier AIL is completely unrealistical.

Make no mistake, given the shift in the position by the associations, they are feeling the heat of the Platinum Prosposal.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Firstly, this league is not going to grasp the imagination of the whole country if it just involves Dublin, Cork, Derry and Belfast! And unless it grasps the imagination of the whole country, IT IS a red herring. In other words, a waste of time.

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There you go again ! You're completely ignoring what's happening, and instead creating your own very negative fantasy of the AIL proposals to justify your oppsition to it.

Look at the list of clubs involved in talks and mentioned re the proposal. Are the likes of Galway, Newry and Drogheda in any of the 4 cities you mentioned, to take but 3 examples ? Stick to the facts please, as you're thoroughly undermining any point you're trying to make by dwelling solely on fantasy.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Secondly, how many clubs have been invited to discussions? As far as I can see, just enough to create a one division league. What do you mean by 'at some point'? What kind of a mickey mouse botch of an attempt at a setting up a league is that? Either you do it right from the start with the correct structures, or you don't do it at all. But of course it would take our know-it-all clubs, who've mad a complete arse of their existence from their inception right up to today, to go about setting up a league with promotion and relegation and thus competitiveness as an after thought 'at some point' :rolleyes: :p

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"As far as you can see" may be right indeed, as you seem bizarrely unwilling to open your eyes and actually recognise what is being proposed. Maribor has amply addressed this issue above.

As for a fan of Limerick football claiming that other clubs have "made a complete arse of their existence from their inception right up to today" ...! :D Brilliant - you've just written the epitaph for Limerick football. I've heard it all now - for everything else in life there's Mastercard....

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

I am not anti the whole idea. I am pro AIL, but ONLY under the stewardship of the FAI and the IL, because frankly, our clubs wouldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery. And I am pro AIL only on the basis that it is a properly structured 2/3/4 tier all Ireland league with proper structures throughout. You ask any EL/IL fan what their idea or definition of an AIL is, and it certainly won't be one run by the so called biggest clubs with scant regard for everyone else.

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It's dificult to read what you've written and then to accept that you're apparently not anti the AIL. I accept the validity of a desire to see an AIL run by both associations - but given their appalling track records over recent decades at running football on this island, it is disingenuous to think they'd do a better job than the clubs. Regardless - the proposal doing the rounds is NOT for the clubs to run an AIL, but Platinum One. Again - you're seeing a strange parallel proposal that doesn't reflect the actual reality but handily enough enables you to justify your opposition to the proposals.

Platinum One are a professional Sports Marketing company. If your opposition to the AIL proposals are led by a desire to see it run properly (and I'd question whether this is your genuine key concern), then surely you'd have to accept that a professional sports promotions company is highly likely to make a better run at an AIL than the combined 'talents' of the muppets of Merrion Square and the little-Ulsterites of Windsor Avenue ? the same people who have shown themselves incapable of doing anything significant to help Irish domestic football in recent decades.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

As regards your smart comment about Limerick, it wasn't so long ago that you lot had to get John Hume to drag u out of the s**t. If Derry were in that state right now and weren't flavour of the month, would you be in a position to be even at the top table of these discussions? No you would not. And look at Galway now. Three years ago or so they were a club in serious trouble. Now they've got a pretty impressive stadium, a sound financial footing and premier league football. And all done without the help of a politician. In three years time Limerick have a 7000 all seater stadium to look forward to, and one thats not costing us a cent. It'll probably be far superior to the Brandywell. So if I were you I'd get off that high horse of yours. Just because a club isn't flavour of the month does not mean you exclude them. It's 'football' people like you that make me sick...

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Ignoring your toys-out-of-pram petty rant, this gets us to the crux of your opposition to an AIL. The fact that Limerick aren't in it. A city the size of Limerick should be. But it would be absurd to pretend that there isn't something fundamentally wrong with football in Limerick that a town that size can't sustain a senior team for any length of time, let alone see one prosper. The same can not be said of Galway, Derry etc. Even the formerly turbulent Cork football has been a steady ship for over 20 years now. It's all very well talking about how good things will be for Limerick football in 'x' number of years time. Fine - come back then. But until then, Limerick football remains a basket case and can barely justify a First Division License, let alone a place in an AIL. That is a fact, and it's not my fault either, so please just deal with it and don't come crying to me about John Hume.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Thankfully the FAI and IFA have come out with a statement today reiterating what I have been saying. NO AIL without them. So let's hope they interven sooner rather than later and get involved with the clubs from the outset.

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The one winner from the entire Platinum process will be Irish club football. Because it has given the 2 inert associations a huge kick up the arse. They now have to justify their authority over Irish football - which they've never had to before, and which they consequently never really could justify either.

If they were so secure in their posiotion re this proposal, then you can be damn sure it'd be business as usual for them. Instead - they're clearly rattled by what is happening, and they know they've got to lift their game or they'll be in serious trouble. So it doesn't take much reading between the lines to see that the actions of both associations show that they know damn well an AIL could happen without them. If the big clubs want to do it, and the financial backing is there, it will happen. I think you're clinging to mere hope if you think otherwise. Irish football has changed for good now. Thank fcuk and all...

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Platinum One are a professional Sports Marketing company. If your opposition to the AIL proposals are led by a desire to see it run properly, then surely you'd have to accept that a professional sports promotions company is highly likely to make a better run at an AIL than the combined 'talents' of the muppets of Merrion Square and the little-Ulsterites of Windsor Avenue ? the same people who have shown themselves incapable of doing anything significant to help Irish domestic football in recent decades.

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I agree with the idea that they can run it better than the FAI and IFA.

However, the fact that their bottom line is profit is what concerns me. In some cases of course, improving the quality of football and generating profit play off each other. But as a company out to make profit, I'm concerned that they will focus more (or exclusively) of the clubs who can generate profit, and ignore those who don't. This would mean that the governing body itself would be biased in favour of the top teams. For all your criticism (much of it justified) of the current governing bodies, at least bias wasn't inherent in the way I'm worried it could be under Platinum One.

Also, the idea that there are thousands of fans out there who have stayed away from the eL just because of poor advertising is unlikely. People keep mentioning Linfield and Glentoran, but these teams will visit once a season (or maybe twice, depending on the league structure). The argument that "Rovers versus Linfield is better than Rovers versus UCD" may well be true, but the fact is that the majority of games will still be between the same clubs that play each other now. I'm skeptical that a game between St. Pats and Bohs (for example) will generate a much attendance than now, just because they are now playing in an AIL.

When Shelbourne played Deportivo, 25,000 people were at the game. It was great advertising for the eL - we saw an eL team competing at European level against a top European team. It was the best advertising you could ask for. The next Shelbourne league game had 1,500 or so at it. This is not conclusive proof of any kind, but does show that even with exposure, even with relative success (Shels got a draw that night), fans just weren't interested.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The one winner from the entire Platinum process will be Irish club football. Because it has given the 2 inert associations a huge kick up the arse. They now have to justify their authority over Irish football - which they've never had to before, and which they consequently never really could justify either.

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I agree that Irish football could be the winner, but only if the AIL is controlled fairly by one or both of the FAI/IFA, who have been spurred into action by the threat posed by Platinum One.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Also,When Shelbourne played Deportivo, 25,000 people were at the game. It was great advertising for the eL - we saw an eL team competing at European level against a top European team. It was the best advertising you could ask for. The next Shelbourne league game had 1,500 or so at it. This is not conclusive proof of any kind, but does show that even with exposure, even with relative success (Shels got a draw that night), fans just weren't interested.

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What got 25,000 to the Shels v Deportivo game ? A large part of it was 'hype' and media excitement. Is it possible to do so for clubs again ?

Well - yes ! A huge crowd turned out to see an ordinary League of Ireland game when Rovers played their first match at the RDS. That was because there was lots of buzz around the idea of Rovers returnuing to the South side, having what people then thought would be a new home etc. They didn't keep the same level of crowd across the season, but the fact an ordinary LOI game attracted such crowds showed that it is possible.

Look also at Derry City - home crowds of 8-10,000 for 5 years in the late 1980's, and up to 4,000 travelling to away games. Why ? Despite what some will claim, it wasn't because of the 'novelty'. It was because there was a huge buzz around the club at the time. It was pure 'hype', and it worked in atrtacting huge crowds.

So Irish football has the potential to deliver much larger crowds to domsetic games than it currently does - because it has done it before in the past. The propoer media exposure and promotion will be key here.

I can just hear your voice echoing in the mouths of all those people and puindits who said that a different structure for 'club'/provincial rugby wouldn't do much for non-International support levels in Ireland.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Well - yes ! A huge crowd turned out to see an ordinary League of Ireland game when Rovers played their first match at the RDS. That was because there was lots of buzz around the idea of Rovers returnuing to the South side, having what people then thought would be a new home etc. They didn't keep the same level of crowd across the season, but the fact an ordinary LOI game attracted such crowds showed that it is possible.

Look also at Derry City - home crowds of 8-10,000 for 5 years in the late 1980's, and up to 4,000 travelling to away games. Why ? Despite what some will claim, it wasn't because of the 'novelty'. It was because there was a huge buzz around the club at the time. It was pure 'hype', and it worked in atrtacting huge crowds.

So Irish football has the potential to deliver much larger crowds to domsetic games than it currently does - because it has done it before in the past. The propoer media exposure and promotion will be key here.

No doubt, with proper promotion, they crowds will increase. But some of the numbers I've heard in relation to Platinum One are laughable.

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Steve, you've given one example regarding Rovers, and you admit that once the novelty wore off regarding their new home, the crowds fell away. What will be different this time?

The Derry example isn't a fair comparison, as the level of hype generated by a club rising from the ashes like Derry City did is much greater than an AIL which actually has you playing the mostly same teams as before.

So your third quoted paragraph, where you claim your examples are proof that your argument is correct, rings false. The currently-proposed AIL, apart from the first home game against Linfield, or Glentoran, will struggle to generate hype comparable to the first example you gave, and will never be able to compare to your second example in terms of hype.

No doubt, with proper marketing, crowds will increase, initially at least, but some of the numbers I've seen regarding the Platinum One proposal are unrealistic.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Steve, you've given one example regarding Rovers, and you admit that once the novelty wore off regarding their new home, the crowds fell away. What will be different this time?

The Derry example isn't a fair comparison, as the level of hype generated by a club rising from the ashes like Derry City did is much greater than an AIL which actually has you playing the mostly same teams as before.

So your third quoted paragraph, where you claim your examples are proof that your argument is correct, rings false. The currently-proposed AIL, apart from the first home game against Linfield, or Glentoran, will struggle to generate hype comparable to the first example you gave, and will never be able to compare to your second example in terms of hype.

No doubt, with proper marketing, crowds will increase, initially at least, but some of the numbers I've seen regarding the Platinum One proposal are unrealistic.

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Do you believe that Irish football is intrinsically doomed to continue wallowing in the current medicority it inhabits for ever ?

If not - what do you propose will lift it out of that mediocrity, if not an AIL ?

And if the most feasible proposal anyone can come up with to achieve this is a well-marketed AIL, are you saying a professional sports promotion company wouldn't make a better run at it than a load of blazers...?

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Originally Posted by Lux Interior

:confused:

Given that Lnfield barely bring triple figures to European aways, why do you think up to 10 times as many will similarly bother their arses to travel to Galway.

Glentoran's away Setanta crowds have remained impressive, despite the awfulness endured on the pitch. With the exception of Derry away (last season), our away crowds have matched - and bettered - Linfield's.

"Fact!":rolleyes:

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lmfao. Aye right. I believe ye.... Many wouldn't...

osarusan, 4tothefloor

Lads, just to back up Steves point there. Back in 2004-2005 city sold out the cross 6-7 times. That was from pure hype, a buzz around the City. Go back 10 years ago that would have been unheard of. Maybe we got big attendances for European games but to sell out the ground for LOI games, that was unheard of.

I'm sorry .... i'm with Steve on this one.

AIL or no AIL, are you seriously telling me that clubs/the league/the powers that be SHOULDN'T make an effort to bring in big crowds. Where is your point ending? You're contesting everything that Steve is saying, fair enough but where do you see it going?

Should we all just sit on our hands and wish it better? We have tried that already and it didn't work. Should we stay with it because its consistant if nothing else?

I do see a day when there are 10-15,000 at all LOI games, i think everything that contributes to that has failed year after year to the point it spiralled downwards for so long. To say that trying to improve and raise the standard and belief and expectation again wont help is crazy and its not an option. I'm not taking that onboard at all.

I'll believe your outlook when i see everything working in tandum, all of the various element needed to have this league thriving, huge positivity and unprecidented investment, quality coaching methods and facilities, etc. and if it doesn't encouage people to come out in their droves and have a bit of civic pride then i'll admit you are right. I'll also say if that wont do it for them, then their not worth it.

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Originally Posted by Lux Interior

:confused:

Given that Lnfield barely bring triple figures to European aways, why do you think up to 10 times as many will similarly bother their arses to travel to Galway.

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you obviously haven't been to Galway so have ya!!!!! :p

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Originally Posted by Lux Interior

Given that Lnfield barely bring triple figures to European aways, why do you think up to 10 times as many will similarly bother their arses to travel to Galway.

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Hee hee, bad choice there :p

Yeah, i have to agree with galwayhoop there. You picked the worng team there i think, cos Galway is probably the best away trips for most clubs. Its a great town to go out in :)

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

If not - what do you propose will lift it out of that mediocrity, if not an AIL ?

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Again, please tell me why Bohs against Derry in a new "Platinum AIL" will be better than now?

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

are you saying a professional sports promotion company wouldn't make a better run at it than a load of blazers...?

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I've already said that I agree that a professional promotion could market it better than the current bodies are doing. My point, which you haven't yet contradicted, was that as a business out to make profit, they could show bias. This worries me, and should worry any club involved, just in case they have a couple of bad seasons and lose money.

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Originally Posted by A face

AIL or no AIL, are you seriously telling me that clubs/the league/the powers that be SHOULDN'T make an effort to bring in big crowds.

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I've never said anything even remotely similar to what you've somehow inferred.

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Originally Posted by A face

I'll believe your outlook when i see everything working in tandum, all of the various element needed to have this league thriving, huge positivity and unprecidented investment, quality coaching methods and facilities, etc. and if it doesn't encouage people to come out in their droves and have a bit of civic pride then i'll admit you are right. I'll also say if that wont do it for them, then their not worth it.

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In what way will the "Platinum AIL" achieve these goals?


A Face, you asked me for my point.

My points are these -
# I'm against an AIL being run by a business out to make profit, as decisions could be based on profit for the company, rather than what is good for the league in terms of football.
# I'm against an AIL being run by a business who might show bias towards certain clubs who would help their attempts to make a profit more than others.
# I'm skeptical that the proposed AIL will lead to the kind of improvements, especially in terms of attendance, that people are imagining. You've mentioned better training and facilities - I'd say that any club who focuses on these aspects of the club, while admirable in the long term, would see them out of the title race in the short term; as a result, I'd argue that clubs are unlikely to go down that road. Clubs who are against a 65% wage-cap are unlikely, in my opinion, to voluntarily invest funds in such things, at the expense of squad quality.
#I'm for a fair governing body.
#I'm for a wage cap to force, yes, force clubs to spend money on things other than players.

I want the league (AIL or not) to improve as much as anybody. But I want it to improve under a fair and unbiased governing body who don't look at clubs in terms of profit or loss. I'm surprised that any football fan would be so willing for their team to enter a league that could be run on such a basis.

There seems to be an attitude here that "it is all the FAI's fault. They're the reason the fans don't come, and we don't have enough money. With more money, all our problems will be solved." Now some of this is true, but I think that in the eagerness to improve themselves, clubs are expecting all sorts of improvements this AIL won't provide.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I want the league (AIL or not) to improve as much as anybody. But I want it to improve under a fair and unbiased governing body who don't look at clubs in terms of profit or loss. I'm surprised that any football fan would be so willing for their team to enter a league that could be run on such a basis.

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you make some good points but can you clarify the following:

On what basis were Shels relegated last year??

Why did Dublin City fold??

Why did Kilkenny fold??

Why did Limerick fold last year (pre-L37 revival)??

Why were Galway United promoted last year??

The anwer to all of the above, in whole or in part, is FINANCIAL GROUNDS!!!!!!!

Without going into the minutiae the fact is that most if not all of football is down to profit & loss at this present moment in time. Surely on any other grounds than 'Profit & loss' Dundalk would have played Premier Division football the season just gone.

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Originally Posted by galwayhoop

you make some good points but can you clarify the following: (Examples)
Without going into the minutiae the fact is that most if not all of football is down to profit & loss at this present moment in time.

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Fair post, I'll clarify.

The FAI, as far as I'm concerned, have an obligation to treat all clubs equally, and show favour to none. The FAI, by and large, have lived up to this (the promotion circus last season notwithstanding). The other examples you've given are clubs mis-managing themselves, or just not having enough support to survive/flourish. As you pointed out, football is always a matter of profit and loss, but that should be along the lines of "each club for themselves" on a level playing field.

The proposed AIL could actually deliberately favour clubs over other clubs because the former are in a position to make more profit for the business running the league.