Foreign Sports in Croke Park

Sean Kelly somehow seems to have taken on the mantle of Moses leading the hebrew slaves to the promised land in all of this. The fact of the matter is that there was overwhelming support nationwide for Croke Park to be opened up for the duration of the LR redevelopment. Delegates received mandates from their counties to support the temporary relaxation of rule 42 with regard to Croke Park. The same thing would have happened when it went to a vote years before if the government hadn't intervened at the last second in a vain attempt to rescue the Bertiebowl. I think it suits people of a certain mindset to believe that one man, a lone voice in the wilderness if you will, dragged the GAA kicking and screaming into the light. The fact of the matter is that you can watch the Irish soccer and rugby teams in Croke Park this year because the majority of GAA members said you could. Mr Kelly seems only too happy to sustain the myth that he was primarily responsible for this, but then again if I had a book to sell I might be tempted to do the same.

A fair point respectfully acknowledged Jinxy.

I like reading Jinxy's posts - stick around!

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

Sean Kelly somehow seems to have taken on the mantle of Moses leading the hebrew slaves to the promised land in all of this. The fact of the matter is that there was overwhelming support nationwide for Croke Park to be opened up for the duration of the LR redevelopment. Delegates received mandates from their counties to support the temporary relaxation of rule 42 with regard to Croke Park. The same thing would have happened when it went to a vote years before if the government hadn't intervened at the last second in a vain attempt to rescue the Bertiebowl. I think it suits people of a certain mindset to believe that one man, a lone voice in the wilderness if you will, dragged the GAA kicking and screaming into the light. The fact of the matter is that you can watch the Irish soccer and rugby teams in Croke Park this year because the majority of GAA members said you could. Mr Kelly seems only too happy to sustain the myth that he was primarily responsible for this, but then again if I had a book to sell I might be tempted to do the same.

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You are correct up to a point. There was overwhelming support within the GAA grassroots in the Republic. I'm not so sure re Northern Ireland. It was heartening to see the likes of Tommy Kenoy in Roscommon, the guy in Laois on RTE and many many many more who represented the ordinary GAA people.

However this support needed leadership and needed a focus. Sean Kelly provided that. He also had to take on the past presidents who had vetoed a previous proposal. In reality you are right and he didn't change too many minds but he did get the vote through. So good luck to him even if he did admit cheering for England against us at Italia90.

Would there be that many interested in American Football do you think? I belive the tickets were costly enough for the match in Wembley (not to mention the state of the pitch afterwards..

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Originally Posted by gspain

You are correct up to a point. There was overwhelming support within the GAA grassroots in the Republic. I'm not so sure re Northern Ireland. It was heartening to see the likes of Tommy Kenoy in Roscommon, the guy in Laois on RTE and many many many more who represented the ordinary GAA people.

However this support needed leadership and needed a focus. Sean Kelly provided that. He also had to take on the past presidents who had vetoed a previous proposal. In reality you are right and he didn't change too many minds but he did get the vote through. So good luck to him even if he did admit cheering for England against us at Italia90.

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Was that in the book?! I don't deny he played a significant role in the process but in my opinion it was people like Tommy Kenoy who persistently raised the issue (even back when it wouldn't have been too fashionable to do so) that were largely responsible for what transpired. I think Sean Kelly (cute Kerry hoor that he is) felt which way the wind was blowing, knew the support was there and saw the amendment through. You are right that if you took the Northern counties as a separate grouping there would not have been majority support, but the reasons for that represent a whole other basket of kettles of a different colour that I have no interest in getting into!

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

Was that in the book?! I don't deny he played a significant role in the process but in my opinion it was people like Tommy Kenoy who persistently raised the issue (even back when it wouldn't have been too fashionable to do so) that were largely responsible for what transpired. I think Sean Kelly (cute Kerry hoor that he is) felt which way the wind was blowing, knew the support was there and saw the amendment through. You are right that if you took the Northern counties as a separate grouping there would not have been majority support, but the reasons for that represent a whole other basket of kettles of a different colour that I have no interest in getting into!

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Haven't bought the book. I'm not that big a fan. :D

He admitted that i na couple of interviews. Said he thought it would be bad for the GAA if we did well in the World Cup so wanted us to lose. Then a year later after some fantastic game he realised that the GAA was strong enough not to depend on others failing and then felt it was right to showcase Croke Park and Gaelic Games to the world.

In fairness to SK he did push the matter and I don't think it was a case of seeing how the wind was blowing. He certainly is the bete noir of the anti group.

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Originally Posted by gspain

Haven't bought the book. I'm not that big a fan. :D

He admitted that i na couple of interviews. Said he thought it would be bad for the GAA if we did well in the World Cup so wanted us to lose. Then a year later after some fantastic game he realised that the GAA was strong enough not to depend on others failing and then felt it was right to showcase Croke Park and Gaelic Games to the world.

In fairness to SK he did push the matter and I don't think it was a case of seeing how the wind was blowing. He certainly is the bete noir of the anti group.

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He must have been talking about the Dublin-Meath 4 match saga in '91. I'd love to know what the GAA would be like now if that first game had ended in a 1 point win for Dublin.

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

It's all about maximising market share. You'd hardly expect the Sony shop to start stocking X-Boxes in the morning.

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Yes but this is a sporting organisation not a business.

Maybe I'm naive but for me sporting organisations(whatever about the clubs within them) should all have the common aim of getting kids to play some sport, be it hurling, football, real football etc.

For example the FAI are very good in this regard at primary school and underage level. Of course they would prefer that the kids chose their sport but they encourage children to try other sports also.

The most important thing being that they are active and partaking in healthy competition.

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Originally Posted by jebus

God the GAA just seem more pathetic with each passing year don't they?

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Yeah, they should try and be more like the FAI. Now those cats really are tuned in...

Going by a newspaper article in October 2006, it is against the law to be anti-bogball in Mayo, :rolleyes:as I learned from reading that article from a Mayo newspaper and being called an idiot by the journalist in question for castigating the society of bogball and calling the All Ireland Final the King of the Bog final. However, the journalist in question saw the bait and took the bait, hook, line and sinker.:D However, from the safety of a Liverpool computer, it is easy to ridicule the aims of bogball without getting a slap across the back of the head. Interesting to read the aims of the bogball society. Does following football and not bogball makes us any less Irish?? For me, no. I'm an Irishman and a football man, and I do not need bogball to confirm my identity. Association Football Rules OK!!!!:D

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Originally Posted by Thunderblaster

being called an idiot by the journalist in question for castigating the society of bogball and calling the All Ireland Final the King of the Bog final.

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If you actually used those words (in bold) then the journalist's description would be pretty accurate.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

If you actually used those words (in bold) then the journalist's description would be pretty accurate.

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LOL!..

"Who Stole Our Game" compares the strategic development of GAA compared to association football and the impact this had on the 2 games. The GAA was forward-looking and had a succession of 5-year plans, implemented by top-notch administrators. Association football had...well, the FAI... which until recently was an association of well and not-so-well meaning amateurs each with their own agenda.

Another difference between how the sports have progressed is the millstone that is professionalism around the neck of association football. Hundreds of thousands have been spent on players' wages that otherwise would have gone into facilities and games promotion, as they do in the GAA.

Thirdly, the GAA has created an establishment position for itself (that was not always the case). As my father said when the €60M was given to Croke Park (and yes, I know it was lottery money, but lottery money is only taxpayers money by another name, as spending it here makes a shortfall filled with tax money elsewhere) "the GAA - Fianna Fail at play"! The FAI, under Delaney (who is undisputedly a superb politician) is playing catch-up.

There are bigots in the GAA - being from Monaghan I know plenty of them. And it was indisputably bigoted in the past. But using phrases like "bogball" is bigotry as well; kids just want to play sport, and if they excel at more than one then at 16 or so they have to make a choice. For most kids the choice comes naturally to them - the game they prefer, are better at, the one that mgiht have the promise of a career,whatever. But prior to then they should be encouraged, not discouraged, to play any sport. In many parts of the country there's now an implicit, if not explicit, agreement between gaa and ass. football as to what days or nights are designated for which sport, and that's great imo.

Sorry to wander off-topic, an I'm no apologist for the GAA, but rather than being disparaging there's a lot to be learned from the GAA

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Originally Posted by pete

I believe teams now wear Adidas jerseys?

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Kerry wore Adidas jerseys for awhile but they were made in Ireland. They are back wearing O'Neills now but they have in the past had there training kit etc done by Adidas. The three manufacturers are Azurri from Waterford, Gaelic Gear from the North and O'Neills.

Was it George Byrne that invented the terms bogball and stickfighting (or is that an urban legend)? Sounds like the sort of nonsense he'd come out with.

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Originally Posted by micls

Yes but this is a sporting organisation not a business.

Maybe I'm naive but for me sporting organisations(whatever about the clubs within them) should all have the common aim of getting kids to play some sport, be it hurling, football, real football etc.

For example the FAI are very good in this regard at primary school and underage level. Of course they would prefer that the kids chose their sport but they encourage children to try other sports also.

The most important thing being that they are active and partaking in healthy competition.

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Well said.
But I would have compared the founding/aims of the GAA to Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann rather than a Sony Corporation :)
All schools should have a PE teacher and organise the sports, its
up to the kids to pursue what suits them.
Imo Irish soccer and the GAA face the same threat re popularity and attendance so they have a shared agenda on many levels. Irish soccer is part of Irish culture.

On opening of gaelic pitches to competing sports, I know my own home town club rent out facilities to the local soccer club, I know other clubs in the county do so, yet the county delegates were mandated to vote against the temp relaxing of Croke PK:confused:
'Tis a strange country.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Irish soccer is part of Irish culture.

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Brilliant sentence. Like I said in my earlier post that being an association football disciple does not make one any less Irish.

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Originally Posted by Thunderblaster

Brilliant sentence. Like I said in my earlier post that being an association football disciple does not make one any less Irish.

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Did someone ever tell you otherwise?

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Originally Posted by Jinxy

Did someone ever tell you otherwise?

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Yep, these "foreign sports" eejits.