Shannon Airport Discussion

There were a couple of interesting facts in an article by Coleman in the Tribune yesterday. I don't claim anything here, just stating them (from memory) for interest:

75% of the people on Shannon-Heathrow are going to England. These people may be served by other routes, e.g. Shannon-Dublin-Heathrow (revenge for the damned stop-over!), Cork-Heathrow, etc.

Shannon currently has flights to Frankfurt and Paris, two other highly connected airports, so the claim that it's going to be somehow cut off from the rest of the world is exaggerated.

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Originally Posted by John83

75% of the people on Shannon-Heathrow are going to England. These people may be served by other routes, e.g. Shannon-Dublin-Heathrow (revenge for the damned stop-over!), Cork-Heathrow, etc.

Shannon currently has flights to Frankfurt and Paris, two other highly connected airports, so the claim that it's going to be somehow cut off from the rest of the world is exaggerated.

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The point being made re the 75% of users not connecting is that they can use the Ryanair flights to the other London airports.

The point on Paris and Frankfurt is somewhat of a red herring as they are, AFAIK, to the secondary airports of Paris Beavais and Frankfurt Hahn with Ryanair and therefore not suitable for connections.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Hmmm ...I'm guessing you must be displaying another manifestation of the northern "victim mentality" ORA was referring to. ;)

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No was just making the point that this is all down to the sort free market economics espoused by Fianna Fail and if people don't like it then they should vote them out!

Also the Bank of Ireland recently created a load of jobs in Belfast instead of Dublin as the cost of living is cheaper up here and they can therefore get away with paying less in terms of wages!

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The point being made re the 75% of users not connecting is that they can use the Ryanair flights to the other London airports.

The point on Paris and Frankfurt is somewhat of a red herring as they are, AFAIK, to the secondary airports of Paris Beavais and Frankfurt Hahn with Ryanair and therefore not suitable for connections.

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Not according to Ryanair website,

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Originally Posted by SolitudeRed

No was just making the point that this is all down to the sort free market economics espoused by Fianna Fail and if people don't like it then they should vote them out!

Also the Bank of Ireland recently created a load of jobs in Belfast instead of Dublin as the cost of living is cheaper up here and they can therefore get away with paying less in terms of wages!

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I know and agree. We need a "tongue in cheek" emoticon on here. :D

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Not according to Ryanair website,

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Well this is of course the company that have been censured for billing an airport/deserted flying club with portacabin in southern Sweden as "Copenhagen".

Perhaps the Russian or US military might be persuaded to invest again in Shannon Airport? Aer Lingus wont be the only airline to pull out of Shannon. Continental Airlines are moving their service Newark service to Dublin next year with the advent of the open skies policy. Loss of transatlantic flights are more important than the loss of Heathrow flights. RyanAir have chopped some of their flights out of Shannon so why can't Aer Lingus do likewise?

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

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Well this is of course the company that have been censured for billing an airport/deserted flying club with portacabin in southern Sweden as "Copenhagen".

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So they do fly from shannon to Frankfurt Hahn but are just not telling anybody :)

Ryanair get slagged off frequently to for this but it can work both ways - see Bratislava thread. the info is all there on the airports they fly to provided by them or other sources and how to get to/from the airports. If people are too lazy/stupid (delete as necessary)to do the research i have damn all sympathy. Has anybody ever arrived at Franfurt hahn expecting it to be the internation airport and not an ex USAF base ?

Look mate I’m not going to get into a slugging match with you as I love the city of Derry but I do want to point out some facts to you. First up I find it bizarre of you a Derry person to slag off something which is unique not to me but to your city. During the troubles of the 1970s thousands of Derry and Belfast people came to live and work in Shannon as it had thousands of jobs, due to the American and Irish companies set up there around the airport. Thousands of persons living in Shannon and the surrounding city of Limerick and towns of Ennis are all from…Derry! So you see there are quite a few Derry people in Shannon and the mid west in those high paid jobs you talk about and yes maybe scratching their collective holes! While certain airports along the west coast (and with a local TD in its constituency) have a thing called subvention, now this is a government help fund but it goes to small airports like Galway, Kerry Knock and Sligo. This makes it profitable for an airline to operate out of these small airports as the Government picks up the bulk of the cost of the flights. A €29:99 flights out of Galway airport might in fact be costing the tax payer over €200. Shannon is not one of these airports which receive large subventions.

Now I hate pointing this out to persons living in the north but the piece of land you are living on is propped up by some £3 billion in “grants” from the British exchequer…yearly. The largest employer in Northern Ireland is the British government and the largest private investment comes in the form of 3,000 jobs from….Tesco. In my city Limerick, one factory alone (Dell) employees over 3,000 people, its supplier factories in the region another 3,000 and yes they will pull out within the next year as the Irish republican government continues to give our assets to a foreign jurisdiction that is Northern Ireland.

In your opening post on this issue, and remember the issue is the future repositioning of Aer lingus service serving Shannon airport in the west of the republic of Ireland and Heathrow airport in London, to a British island to serve the British public in two of its principle cities. But you didn’t mention that and instead side tracked on a different issue all together, that of the old stopover which was watered down some years ago and beyond March 2008 will be gone forever (as will probably all Aer Lingus flights from Shannon and the west of Ireland)

The timing of the announcement can also be seen as very politically played as most of the big business CEOs are on holiday at this time of the year and when they return in the coming weeks and find their flights to hubs removed, the original outbursts (overreaction is what you call it) will have died down and thus weakening the Wests response to the issue. There are in fact four (4) Aer Lingus flights Shannon to Heathrow daily not three (3) as you stated and the load capacity is 90% which is quite good for any airline.

You try to dismiss any defence of the Shannon lobby as “conspiracy theory,” now I don’t believe that there is any conspiracy theory I simply believe that Bertie promised in the peace agreement €790 million of grant aid to Northern Ireland and the moving of these state assets/flights to Belfast Internationl/Aldergrove is part of that agreement to go with the already mentioned £3 billion in grant aid from the British government. Its politics, but not something to throw your eyes up at as you do.

You then in your next post go back to the Atlantic route and go on about the stop over…again, before stating that “business travelers want to fly to Dublin, Belfast and Cork,” as obviously there are no business in the west of Ireland is that what your saying? Oh sorry your talking about North American business class is it? I think the issue is of Irish business class in the west wanting to get to the rest of the world to sell their wares.

Next up you compare Londonderry airport in the UK to Shannon but the issue there isn’t a fare one, as Shannon was in no way capable of offering what Londonderry offered (to Ryanair) but it can now as it is no longer run by the Government.

Your points about how costs effective Belfast will be are very valid but so too are some of the replies of some posters linking it with similarities of the Irish Ferries debacle.


The UK is Irelands largest importer of our products and by this all of Ireland should have economical links to the markets in the UK. However this idea of token Government representative Noel Dempsey, of using a new hub in Paris via Cityjet is a deflection device on the issue and I for one won’t be swallowing it. I see the merits of the Paris route but would you really want a business to remove itself of its biggest export market?


I’m delighted that Northern Ireland is getting further economic aid and from a foreign government, but I fail to see why it (Irish Gov) is doing nothing to support its own.

The issue by the way is the termination of the Shannon – Heathrow link and is not as you have led some posters (through their responses) the issue of the old Shannon stopover. If I may compare, if I may be so bold to, your views would be similar to talking about the upgrade of the N7 between Dublin and Limerick (the Nass section) while side tracking talking about the stopover at Borris on Ossary (Also known as Borris un necessary)

If I take the Shannon stopover out of your posts I’m also taking the liberty here in removing your word “artificial” but I will say that in Aer Lingus moving to a new UK hub in Belfast, (where they have been and previously and pulled out twice previously) they are moving the route to a sub vented economy so your initial post doesn’t stand up.

But do please keep the Aer Lingus side ticking over as it is making interesting reading. I shall enjoy showing my many Derry friends in Shannon how a fellow Derry man feels about them possibly/probably losing their jobs.

The mass hysteria & political opportunism is pathetic & "the West" would want to look asking why they so reliant on Aer Lingus & Ryanair.

You can get this information on the various Airport web sites but the airport charges per passenger are as follows
* Shannon E4
* Dublin & Cork approx E7.50

Shannon & Dublin grew by 11% this year but Cork by only 4.5%. If anyone is being shafted it is Cork Airport. There is no wonder Cork cannot get new business if it is charging the same as Dublin which has probably 5 times the catchment area.

:rolleyes:

The pilots for Aer Lingus are now threatening to strike over the fact that Pilots based in Northern Ireland won't get paid the same as those from the south.

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Originally Posted by gael353

Look mate I’m not going to get into a slugging match with you as I love the city of Derry but I do want to point out some facts to you. First up I find it bizarre of you a Derry person to slag off something which is unique not to me but to your city. During the troubles of the 1970s thousands of Derry and Belfast people came to live and work in Shannon as it had thousands of jobs, due to the American and Irish companies set up there around the airport. Thousands of persons living in Shannon and the surrounding city of Limerick and towns of Ennis are all from…Derry!

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Back this up or retract it. Personally, I think its highly unlikely.

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Originally Posted by gael353

Now I hate pointing this out to persons living in the north but the piece of land you are living on is propped up by some £3 billion in “grants” from the British exchequer…yearly.

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I live in Dublin.

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Originally Posted by gael353

In my city Limerick, one factory alone (Dell) employees over 3,000 people, its supplier factories in the region another 3,000 and yes they will pull out within the next year as the Irish republican government continues to give our assets to a foreign jurisdiction that is Northern Ireland.

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Horse****. Dell will pull out because bolting computers together, which is a labour intensive activity, makes zero sese in a high cost country like Ireland. The jobs will move to a developing nation (ie not Northern Ireland).

As for "giving" assets away, Aer Lingus was privatised, for which the Government collected a lot of money. The assets are owned by the shareholders (Govt is a minority shareholder).

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Originally Posted by gael353

You try to dismiss any defence of the Shannon lobby as “conspiracy theory,” now I don’t believe that there is any conspiracy theory I simply believe that Bertie promised in the peace agreement €790 million of grant aid to Northern Ireland and the moving of these state assets/flights to Belfast Internationl/Aldergrove is part of that agreement to go with the already mentioned £3 billion in grant aid from the British government. Its politics, but not something to throw your eyes up at as you do.

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Again, did you miss the privatisation of Aer Lingus?

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Originally Posted by gael353

Next up you compare Londonderry airport in the UK to Shannon but the issue there isn’t a fare one, as Shannon was in no way capable of offering what Londonderry offered (to Ryanair) but it can now as it is no longer run by the Government.

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Shannon Airport is now owned by Dublin Airport and has made no movement towards being a free standing entity as it is commercially unviable in its present structure.

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Originally Posted by gael353

The UK is Irelands largest importer of our products and by this all of Ireland should have economical links to the markets in the UK. However this idea of token Government representative Noel Dempsey, of using a new hub in Paris via Cityjet is a deflection device on the issue and I for one won’t be swallowing it. I see the merits of the Paris route but would you really want a business to remove itself of its biggest export market?

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Fair point, so why not use any of the Ryanair services that serve the other London airports?

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Originally Posted by gael353

I’m delighted that Northern Ireland is getting further economic aid and from a foreign government, but I fail to see why it (Irish Gov) is doing nothing to support its own.

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Still not heard of the privatisation?

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Originally Posted by gael353

I shall enjoy showing my many Derry friends in Shannon how a fellow Derry man feels about them possibly/probably losing their jobs.

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Oh for the love of Christ, welcome to the real world.....

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Originally Posted by Newryrep

So they do fly from shannon to Frankfurt Hahn but are just not telling anybody :).... Has anybody ever arrived at Franfurt hahn expecting it to be the internation airport and not an ex USAF base ?

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I believe the point is that Frankfurt Hahn, Paris Beauvais, London Stansted etc are only useful at all for point to point flying. Scarcely for transfering.

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Originally Posted by One Red Army

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Originally Posted by gael353:
The UK is Irelands largest importer of our products and by this all of Ireland should have economical links to the markets in the UK. However this idea of token Government representative Noel Dempsey, of using a new hub in Paris via Cityjet is a deflection device on the issue and I for one won’t be swallowing it. I see the merits of the Paris route but would you really want a business to remove itself of its biggest export market?

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Fair point, so why not use any of the Ryanair services that serve the other London airports?

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See answer above.

Also ORA -and this is just anecdotal as I don't have stats -a quick gander at the electoral register (or phone book) for the Shannon Town region will confirm a plethora of surnames that would not be considered local to the region but would be ten-a-penny in the Derry, Fermanagh, Donegal neck of the woods.

Also you seem to think the Shannon stopover is somehow not relevant to whats going on now.

I'm not surprised you want to gloss over it, as the whole episode, from the Goverments acquiescence to the Shannon lobby's ridicoluous fight to maintain it into the 90's and the latter years would do a Communist state proud.

It is very relevant because this shows the mindset of the people involved. These same people that are up in arms today saw no problem in forcing the rest of Ireland to land and buy some duty free for 40 years, just to protect their own interests. Therefore, given they cried wolf before, they immediately lose a lot of credibility when they start the same over-hyping of the Heathrow flights.

I see you haven't addressed the 25% figure in relation to interconnecting passengers at Heathrow (less than 100 per day).

The whole thing is a red herring and the real problem (and the real reason FDI will leave) is due to the cost base of the country.

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Also ORA -and this is just anecdotal as I don't have stats -a quick gander at the electoral register (or phone book) for the Shannon Town region will confirm a plethora of surnames that would not be considered local to the region but would be ten-a-penny in the Derry, Fermanagh, Donegal neck of the woods.

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I'm not doubting that but to say that thousands of people left Derry for Shannon in the 70's, when the poplulation of Derry was c60,000, is stretching it somewhat and defies credibility.

Its an irrelevant point in any case. Just because I'm from Derry I'm somehow supposed to support anyone with a victim mentality/handout culture :eek::confused:

It all still goes back to the Privatisation, something that Willie O'Dea, Tony Killeen, all FF TD's that voted for it and frankly anyone who voted FF/PD (and ultimately Green) has to take responsibility for. Just as the thick electorate don't connect our telecoms infrastructure debacle with the eircom privatisation, they didn't with aer lingus and the health services either. And no doubt they'll forget again when it comes to the esb and whoever's next.

Re: The Pilots - Mannion is showing his true colours. Blatant race to the bottom policies being introduced now. Belfast today, eastern europe tomorrow, far east next. If you don't think it'll happen, look at what happened in the merchant fleets around the world. Aer Lingus following the same policy.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Shannon Airport is now owned by Dublin Airport and has made no movement towards being a free standing entity as it is commercially unviable in its present structure......

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I thought the Government split the airports into 3 seperate entities Shannon airport authority, Cork Airport Authority and Dublin Airport Authority. At least that was the intention under the State Airport Acts 2004 which transferred much of the the dayy to day running of the airports to the the local management

Brilliant, Ryanair have called an Aer Lingus EGM, saying they'll vote with the Government to save the Shannon routes, or abstain which would give the Government and the ESOT a majority. I really hate Mick O'Leary, but it's great to see the snarling privateer rottweiler turn on it's owner... :D

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Originally Posted by Macy

Brilliant, Ryanair have called an Aer Lingus EGM, saying they'll vote with the Government to save the Shannon routes, or abstain which would give the Government and the ESOT a majority. I really hate Mick O'Leary, but it's great to see the snarling privateer rottweiler turn on it's owner... :D

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More importantly, "In the event that Aer Lingus sticks to its decision... Ryanair said it would be willing to launch a fourth daily flight to London Stansted, a second daily flight to London Gatwick and a daily flight to London Luton if Aer Lingus pulls its London services from Shannon." [source]

Michael O'Leary, Ryanair's chief executive said in a statement: 'Aer Lingus's rules confirm that any 10 pct shareholder can ask for an EGM to be called. It is surprising that neither the government nor the trade unions, both of whom own over 10 pct, have taken up Ryanair's previous offer to work together or called for an EGM to be held.

...because they don't want to be included in the thesaurus as examples next to the term 'Faustian Pact' I'm guessing.

Ryanairs move puts it up to the Government. Sitting on its hands saying it cant interfere with a commercial decision is a cop out. It has a right to protect the livelihoods of its citizens. There is a stated threat to jobs both in industry and tourism. I thought it maintained the 25% stake so it could act as a watchdog. It seems to have fallen asleep on this one.