Stan says NO to only championship players with 10+ goals

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

My gripes with the squad are in midfield, not in attack.
If he feels Folan is worth a look so be it - what better opportunity? If he's a dud, then hopefully this trip will show it.

Including Long, Elliott, Murphy, Stokes & Keogh are all good decisions. We have a wealth of emerging talent in this area and these are the ones who would benefit most from a trip like this.

Not everyone can be picked. Connolly has been on very good form but he's too similar to Keane and not as good an all round player, though probably a bit more predatory.

If there was a qualifier coming up it'd be a tougher call. Morrison in particular, then Connolly and less so Lee would be less risky options if Keane or Doyle were injured. Lee has nuisance value but is far too slow for international football. Good luck to him, he has settled at a decent level of the game but the others have more to offer us.

This is the best range of attacking options we've had in a long time, don't moan about it.

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I agree that the dearth of midfield options are the real cause for concern.

We've got some real viable options in attack and the emergence of the Dunne / McShane partnership should hopefully go from strength to strength in the future.

We really need a young, centre midfielder to emerge to bolster our midfield options.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

We really need a young, centre midfielder to emerge to bolster our midfield options.

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On that note Sammy Lee yesterday made a statement that Joey O'Brien was making good progress from his injury and there is light at the end of the tunnel. Good news for Ireland if he can get himself fit again though it's a long way back from such a bad injury.

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Originally Posted by SÓC

Think it says it all about Jones that he'd rather play Johnson upfront than give Byrne a chance

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Byrne has ligament damage, he's been out for the last 4/5 weeks with it. Jones wants him to stay and have a full pre-season under his belt to prove his worth amidst the oncoming clear out at Ninian Park.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

We really need a young, centre midfielder to emerge to bolster our midfield options.

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how young?.... jamie mcCarthy young or steven ireland young... older?... how about a fit steven reid and a fit joey o'brien... or a fit and on form andy reid....

what kind of central midfielder? attacking or holding? (please read above list for viable solutions!)

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Originally Posted by Paulie

He has consistently struggled when moved up to a higher level.

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This is my favorite point everyone makes, "He has never made it in the EPL." He's never had the chance. He's started 4 matches in the EPL and scored in 1. He was hurt half of last season with Wigan and when he did play he played well.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

This is hardly worth discussing.

For once, Stan appears to have done something right. He's picked players with genuine potential to give them a run and see if they can make the step up. They may not be the finished article but they have been progressing fast and have more to give.

Connolly and Morrison are mature players, have probably peaked in their abilities and have shown that they can't make it at either the top club level or at international level. They have both been given enough opportunities and plainly aren't good enough.

Seriously, do some of you have very short memories?

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Good point on Stan doing the right thing by bringing young players to the US, but bad point on Morrison. Putting Morrison in the same boat as Connollyis stupid - Morrison has proved he is good enough by scoring big goals away from home. We really need that. He also is dedicated, what other players spectated at the B game? Connolly is volatile and would moan about the bench, but Morrison won't and should make future squads. He will be 31 in 2010. Do we want a 23 man panel of 23 year olds?

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Originally Posted by danonion

Good point on Stan doing the right thing by bringing young players to the US, but bad point on Morrison. Putting Morrison in the same boat as Connollyis stupid - Morrison has proved he is good enough by scoring big goals away from home. We really need that. He also is dedicated, what other players spectated at the B game? Connolly is volatile and would moan about the bench, but Morrison won't and should make future squads. He will be 31 in 2010. Do we want a 23 man panel of 23 year olds?

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My 2nd favorite response about Connolly, "he is volatile and would moan"...he was on the bench most of the time in the EPL last season (when he was fit) and I didn't hear him ask for a transfer or more playing time. People think back to the Don Givens incident and see only Givens' side. They still haven't forgiven Connolly for something that happened nearly a decade ago (red card in Brussells) so they want to side with Givens. Hes not a teenager anymore, and he was the 4th best Irish striker this year (behind Keane, Doyle, and Lee...you could count Stokes for the 16 goals in the SPL, but hattricks against teams who are either relegated or at the bottom of the table don't really impress me all that much). If he had the same stats he had this year but a different name he would have been in the squad by the first San Marino game.

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Originally Posted by galwayhoop

how young?.... jamie mcCarthy young or steven ireland young... older?... how about a fit steven reid and a fit joey o'brien... or a fit and on form andy reid....

what kind of central midfielder? attacking or holding? (please read above list for viable solutions!)

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Well I suppose some of the above could be considered viable options.

Certainly both Reid's will be a much needed addition. Not sure if they could work as a pair in the midfield but might be worth trying against the Danes (if fit). Is it too late for Kavanagh?

What's really missing is a player with a real presence in the middle who can control the tempo of the game, is industrious and can pick a pass. There's not many of them around and I suppose wishful thinking on my part that a player will emerge.

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Originally Posted by theworm2345

My 2nd favorite response about Connolly, "he is volatile and would moan"...he was on the bench most of the time in the EPL last season (when he was fit) and I didn't hear him ask for a transfer or more playing time. People think back to the Don Givens incident and see only Givens' side. They still haven't forgiven Connolly for something that happened nearly a decade ago (red card in Brussells) so they want to side with Givens. Hes not a teenager anymore, and he was the 4th best Irish striker this year (behind Keane, Doyle, and Lee...you could count Stokes for the 16 goals in the SPL, but hattricks against teams who are either relegated or at the bottom of the table don't really impress me all that much). If he had the same stats he had this year but a different name he would have been in the squad by the first San Marino game.

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Look I know you want to defend your dad (he must be your da isn't he??) and all but I think its time to face facts...He is not good enough for the highest level, why else would a team as poor as Wigan let him go? Let's face it, they're not exactly flush with strikers now are they??

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Originally Posted by theworm2345

My 2nd favorite response about Connolly, "he is volatile and would moan"...he was on the bench most of the time in the EPL last season (when he was fit) and I didn't hear him ask for a transfer or more playing time. People think back to the Don Givens incident and see only Givens' side. They still haven't forgiven Connolly for something that happened nearly a decade ago (red card in Brussells) so they want to side with Givens. Hes not a teenager anymore, and he was the 4th best Irish striker this year (behind Keane, Doyle, and Lee...you could count Stokes for the 16 goals in the SPL, but hattricks against teams who are either relegated or at the bottom of the table don't really impress me all that much). If he had the same stats he had this year but a different name he would have been in the squad by the first San Marino game.

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Cmon theworm. Connolly has had numerous chances for Ireland and been found lacking constantly except possibly in a few games against p*ss poor opposition or the Turkey friendly (that game was important). If we didn't need him in the dark days of Gary Doherty upfront we certainly don't need him now.

He's a poor International player and I've seen nothing this season to convince me otherwise. That's all I care about. He doesn't have the speed, strength, skill or finishing ability for International level. At Championship level he's decent if not amazing. Begone David Connolly and may God have mercy on your soul.

Now maybe O'Shea and Kilbane can follow. Stan at least has made some decent decisions shifting some of the dead wood.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

What's really missing is a player with a real presence in the middle who can control the tempo of the game, is industrious and can pick a pass.

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them players are missing from 99.9% of teams the world over. they are the great ones. we had one in roy keane and we may not get another for 20 or 30 years. alex ferguson has the luxury of being able to go out and buy a replacement (with plenty of money to do it) and has been trying (unsuccessifully) since about 2001/2002. we have to wait until one who is eligible comes around!! it is time people stopped saying thing like 'we need a new roy keane' and just realised that maybe, just maybe we will need to mix and match players who each may only have one or two of the components you listed above but together they may be effective.

sorry to burst your bubble and all but we just ain't going to stumble onto an unreal CM anytime soon and even if we did it would be 5 years or so until they reached their prime and full potential. just look at the press that j.mcCarthy has got at 16 in our desperate attempt to find the complete central midfield player.

galwayhoop Joey O'Brien is the dog's and he was only 19 for most of last season. If he gets fit he could be brilliant next season if he plays in his preferred position (central midfield). Unfortunately with his dodgy injury his career could go either way.

The annoying this is that we actually have an athletic, tall, mobile, box to box, ball carrying, ball winning CM with a piledriver of a shot and who's a half decent passer of the ball - but Stan, in his wisdom and contradicting Sir Bobby Robson's public statements, played him out of position wide right against one of the best CM pairings in the world.

Not just Stan, Kerr and Mick also played this guy right midfield & he's consistently been crap. He'd be the type of player who would complement Stephen Ireland, just as Joey Barton brought the best out of Ireland at City.

And I'm not talking about Joey O'Brien, about whom I agree with youngirish.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

galwayhoop Joey O'Brien is the dog's and he was only 19 for most of last season. If he gets fit he could be brilliant next season if he plays in his preferred position (central midfield). Unfortunately with his dodgy injury his career could go either way.

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i agree totally. from what i have seen i think that between joey o'brien and steven reid - in a perfect world i.e. injury and form - should be the basis of our centre midfield for a few years to come.

just bored of people describing RK's attritubtes and then saying we need a player that fulfills all of them.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Well I suppose some of the above could be considered viable options.

Certainly both Reid's will be a much needed addition. Not sure if they could work as a pair in the midfield but might be worth trying against the Danes (if fit). Is it too late for Kavanagh?

What's really missing is a player with a real presence in the middle who can control the tempo of the game, is industrious and can pick a pass. There's not many of them around and I suppose wishful thinking on my part that a player will emerge.

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GalwayHoop - I think my original post above qualified the fact that such a midfield option appearing was wishful thinking on my part.

I think you'll find those midfield attributes are not just specific to Roy Keane - he didn't invent them.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It's and end of season tour aganst Bolivia and Ecuador, not away to Czech Republic!

Any, if you're to cite form then only Connolly's case has real merit.

Morrison has been in and out of Palace's team (his goal vs Derby was really good I admit!) and quite a few of Lee's goals have been penalties, and one hat trick against a totally hapless Luton. I like Lee, he's hard working and honest but really isn't in contention.

Stokes would have been top scorer in SPL if he'd stayed, and for Falkirk, not the big 2. He's also suffered from rotation and being played out of position, like Elliott. Murphy & Keogh have been on great form recently and really deserve their places.

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I was referring to connollys and morrisons omittance from the wales and czech games which were qualifiers if i remember rightly ! Stokes has been very poor at Sunderland and has shown a bad attitude and since Staunton had not seen him play at Falkirk once it beggars belief he would pick him for them qualifiers ahead of connolly or morrisson.

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Originally Posted by zinedineontour

Stokes has been very poor at Sunderland and has shown a bad attitude.

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While Stokes has not set the world alight at Sunderland to say he has struggled is incorrect. He missed the bus once with 3 team mates shouldn't condemn him as “having a bad attitude‘‘. He has only started 7 games and scored 2 goals. Most of the games he has played on the wing. Obviously the best has yet to come. As regards Connolly, he is yesterdays man.

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Originally Posted by galwayhoop

them players are missing from 99.9% of teams the world over. they are the great ones. we had one in roy keane and we may not get another for 20 or 30 years. alex ferguson has the luxury of being able to go out and buy a replacement (with plenty of money to do it) and has been trying (unsuccessifully) since about 2001/2002. we have to wait until one who is eligible comes around!! it is time people stopped saying thing like 'we need a new roy keane' and just realised that maybe, just maybe we will need to mix and match players who each may only have one or two of the components you listed above but together they may be effective.

sorry to burst your bubble and all but we just ain't going to stumble onto an unreal CM anytime soon and even if we did it would be 5 years or so until they reached their prime and full potential. just look at the press that j.mcCarthy has got at 16 in our desperate attempt to find the complete central midfield player.

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Not at all. So anyone with "a real presence in the middle who can control the tempo of the game, is industrious and can pick a pass" is of the standard of Roy Keane? :) Andy Reid ticks all those boxes for me. When he's played in the centre everything goes through him.

zinedineontour - It suits your argument to play Stokes down. He's an excellent player who has hardly played up front for Sunderland. I'd pick Stokes ahead of Connolly too and it wasn't so long ago I was the main person on here defending Connolly.

I'm sorry you all think that way, but I won't stop until he retires...also he was not so much released by Wigan so much as that Keane wanted him at Sunderland and he wanted to go there (as he and Keane I assume are friend being that Connolly and Breen were the one who supported him during Saipan). He still had 2 years left on his Wigan contract and perhaps would have kept them out of relegation this year (who knows?)

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Originally Posted by drummerboy

While Stokes has not set the world alight at Sunderland to say he has struggled is incorrect. He missed the bus once with 3 team mates shouldn't condemn him as “having a bad attitude‘‘. He has only started 7 games and scored 2 goals. Most of the games he has played on the wing. Obviously the best has yet to come. As regards Connolly, he is yesterdays man.

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stokes has struggled he missed training and was dropped for the sheff wed game also. From people within the club he arrived with a big time charlie attitude but has copped on recently and in the last couple of games in the season started to show the quality he has. Connolly has been excellent this season and is far from yesterdays man. Better goal ratio than the much lauded david nugent.