Highest Premier Division Wage budget

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02/05/2007, 5:20 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

Interesting point. I think it is big enough. Countries of similar sizes in Norway and Sweden support their leagues.

Agreed, although it's a bit more difficult here with the GAA and the rugby. I think what's needed though is steady growth, not stupid spending sprees like Dublin City/Shels/Drogheda to name but three in the recent past. Every time one of these clubs implode, it makes it harder for sponsors and potential supporters to take the rest seriously.

An All-Ireland league wouldn't help make Bray or anyone else that much bigger; it's overhyped (although I'd still like to see it). Bray have their catchment area, and playing Glentoran every now and again won't markedly impact on that.
02/05/2007, 5:29 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

I think the only way forward for football on this island, is an all-Ireland league.

True, but they do so without competition from GAA and rugby, though they may well have competition from other sports, I dont know. Just looking at population is not enough, we need to go into more detail to see just how many potential fans are out there.

Edit: Just like Pinepple Stu said!!
02/05/2007, 5:30 PM
pete

Given the salaries being mentioned in relation to Drogs its obvious easy to keep players from moving to the UK where they would have a drop in salary.

It is the likes of Shels & Drogs spending without any fall back plan that gives the league a bad name & I thought the FAI were supposed to sort this boom & bust situation out? When clubs spend so recklessly it puts pressure on other clubs to maintain the same level as raises the expectations of players & fans.
02/05/2007, 6:04 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Agreed, although it's a bit more difficult here with the GAA and the rugby.

I'm sure hockey would be a big challenger in those countries too.

I'm aware that Bray's fanbase will only rise with population and good PR, but for clubs like Glentoran and Linfield it could give them a bit more exposure down here, much like the Setanta cup has done. Just imagine the crowds they'd bring and then they'd also be getting the big crowds from Rovers, Derry, Cork, Bohs. That would help the finances of clubs on both sides.
03/05/2007, 10:59 AM
Pablo

If Drogs are paying out that kind of money, how are they gonna enforce the 65% of turnover rule next season?

Its only a matter of time before we have another Shels on our hands i think.
03/05/2007, 11:19 AM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pablo

If Drogs are paying out that kind of money, how are they gonna enforce the 65% of turnover rule next season?

By fudging it. I fully expect to see directors' loans or donations or buying 'shares' being allowed as part of income.
03/05/2007, 12:20 PM
paudie

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

An All-Ireland league wouldn't help make Bray or anyone else that much bigger; it's overhyped (although I'd still like to see it). Bray have their catchment area, and playing Glentoran every now and again won't markedly impact on that.

The main advantage of an AIL would be to get a lot more TV/sponsorship money into the game. I don't think the crowd increases would be all that significant.

All the big leagues in Europe are hugely dependant on TV money.

More TV money should obviously lead to better facilities which should have an effect on crowds in the long term.
03/05/2007, 12:30 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by paudie

The main advantage of an AIL would be to get a lot more TV/sponsorship money into the game.

Again exaggerated, I think. Why would TV pay "a lot more" money for Portadown v Longford than they currently do for UCD v Longford?

Really, only Linfield and Glentoran - depending on how they're doing - would affect the TV budget anyway noticeably. Very little else would change.
03/05/2007, 12:36 PM
paudie

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Again exaggerated, I think. Why would TV pay "a lot more" money for Portadown v Longford than they currently do for UCD v Longford?

Really, only Linfield and Glentoran - depending on how they're doing - would affect the TV budget anyway noticeably. Very little else would change.

But you accept there would be a positive effect on TV income.
Given the small amounts of money Irish clubs get from TV even any increase would be a very good thing.

Anyway If Portadown v Longford (or UCD v Longford) was a league decider I'm sure TV companies would be delighted to pay for the privilege of showing it.
03/05/2007, 12:38 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by paudie

But you accept there would be a positive effect on TV income.

It couldn't hurt to strengthen the league. But your assertion that there would be "a lot more" TV money is, I think, wide of the mark.
03/05/2007, 12:54 PM
paudie

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Why not?

Presumably its publicly available at Companies House.

Not if Linfield aren't a company. If they are strictly a members club like a GAA club they wouldn't have to lodge anything.

Even if it was a company (in ROI at least) it might not have to file all the accounts info with Companies House, depending on the type of company it is.
03/05/2007, 1:20 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

By fudging it. I fully expect to see directors' loans or donations or buying 'shares' being allowed as part of income.

In fairness Schumi, if you applied a strictly turnover based measure Abramovic wouldn't have taken over Chelsea and in relation to the EL, the standard would drop to junior level.

If a club is lucky enough to have wealthy supporters they should be allowed to use this, in the same way that say, a university club gets a sweet deal off its parent institution.
03/05/2007, 3:31 PM
hoops1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

(over a quarter of a million last season if i recall correctly) .

How did you manage that?
03/05/2007, 3:56 PM
Steve Bruce

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoops1

How did you manage that?

Working within our budget. I expect a bigger profit this year. I'll know better tomorrow night.
03/05/2007, 4:05 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

If a club is lucky enough to have wealthy supporters they should be allowed to use this, in the same way that say, a university club gets a sweet deal off its parent institution.

You can see the difference between the two can't you? If Drogs' wealthy supporters decide to leave, for whatever reason, the club is left with a debt so high that it could never trade out of it. That's very different from getting free use of a University's facilities.
03/05/2007, 4:12 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

You can see the difference between the two can't you? If Drogs' wealthy supporters decide to leave, for whatever reason, the club is left with a debt so high that it could never trade out of it. That's very different from getting free use of a University's facilities.

Of course I can see the difference, but by the same token its possible the university may decide it doesn't want a senior football side any more.

Wage caps have to be pragmatic and can't eliminate risk, they can only mitigate or reduce it. Even if you implement a purely revenue based limit, a sharp drop in attendence or the loss of a major sponsorship deal could have dramatic effects on clubs finances.

Maybe I'm a cynic, but I'm not surprised UCDD fans would be against wealthy benefactors personal contributions, as I suspect you don't have a history of receiving them, therefore its in your interest to oppose other clubs being able to use them.
03/05/2007, 4:43 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Maybe I'm a cynic, but I'm not surprised UCDD fans would be against wealthy benefactors personal contributions, as I suspect you don't have a history of receiving them, therefore its in your interest to oppose other clubs being able to use them.

I don't have any problem with a wealthy benefactor making a contribution. What I have a problem with is a wealthy benefactor giving a big loan. The key difference being that a donation doesn't have strings attached.

On the other (less relevant) point, UCDD could decide that it doesn't want to field an eL team any more, just as the members of Bohs or Shams or the owners of Derry could decide the same. I think these risks are negligable and, in any case, there's a difference between a club volunterally stepping out of the league and one leaving because it exploded financially.
03/05/2007, 9:14 PM
AnnaghRed

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

Countries of similar sizes in Norway and Sweden support their leagues.

Sweden has a population twice that of Ireland, and the Premier Division in Norway had an average attendance of 9194 last season.

The bottom-line is that full time football is not sustainable on average crowds of 2000 odd.
03/05/2007, 9:45 PM
superfrank

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnnaghRed

Sweden has a population twice that of Ireland, and the Premier Division in Norway had an average attendance of 9194 last season.

The bottom-line is that full time football is not sustainable on average crowds of 2000 odd.

I meant total population. It's between the 5-6 million mark last time I heard in Norway, Sweden and on the entire island of Ireland.
03/05/2007, 9:47 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by superfrank

I meant total population. It's between the 5-6 million mark last time I heard in Norway, Sweden and on the entire island of Ireland.

Sweden's population is a lot higher than Norway's, 8-9 million I think. Norway's is similar to Ireland's.

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