All-Ireland League not practical – Jeffrey

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Not by Monday's standards it isn't ! :)

We had more at our Setanta game versus Shels last year than you did at your Setanta game vs Glens on Monday - and our Shels game last year was our least well attended Setanta clash....

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Unfortunately, the Setanta hasn't whetted the appetite of our support (when you consider over 2000 turned out for the utterly redundant Shield semi match a month earlier) and we continue to bring poor numbers to the table.

The quoted attendance at last week's match, of 3,150 is - beleive me - as low as you'll get between a fixture between the two clubs.

Given that our club is at it's lowest ebb since - arguably - the immediate post-war period, we'll still sell out our meagre allocations at Derry and Drogheda.

Something the Derry side of Keely would never do.

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Originally Posted by David

Perhaps I worded that wrongly, it is not that Linfield supporters do not see Europe as important, they do. However almost all accept that the league is our bread and butter and far more important and the majority will not go to the expense of taking time off work plus travel costs for a European away game, although I personally rarely miss and I can see our travelling numbers increasing as quite a few young lads have started travelling in recent years.

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Sorry, this doesn't really wash.

The league is our bread and butter - and has always been - but we'll continually make the effort for Europe as well.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Make no mistake about it, if we where in the LOI or an all-island league we would pull the biggest attendances.

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I think this is based in fantasy.

I think LFC's - and GFC's - home gates are appalling, certainly when they are compared to EL league sides. However, I will say that both GFC and LFC have large 'sleeping' supports and would suggest that in the event of an A-IL, we would both have the largest away followings.

The supports - bar the jesters - who have come to the Oval during the Setanta (and Shels pathetic 400 for a Champions League tie) have been disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Lux Interior

The supports - bar the jesters - who have come to the Oval during the Setanta (and Shels pathetic 400 for a Champions League tie) have been disappointing.

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Not sure who the jesters are, but City brought a big crowd to the Oval - managing to out-number your own fans in your own home.... :o

First night of the 2007 EL season and some very good crowds, even in the First Division :

c. 3,500 Derry v Bray (Premier)
3,314 Galway v Sligo (Premier. Excludes U-12's & some season ticket holders).
3,078 Bohs v Drogs (Premier)
3,000+ Waterford v Cork (Premier)
c.2,500 at Dundalk v Finn Harps (1st Div).
c. 1,650 UCD v Rovers (Premier)
1,572 Shels v Kildare (1st Div)

Says it all about relative support for our leagues really. A decent attendance most of the time that you face one of your 15 opponents is no great shakes. There's some great crowds for no-great-shakes pairings in those EL figures. So even with everything else staying the same, it seems likely that attendances at games involving IL teams in an AIL league would be higher than you currently experience playing just IL teams.

Good to see City top the attendance figures for this round despite playing an unglamorous team with one of the lowest travelling supports in the Division.

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Originally Posted by Lux Interior

Sorry, this doesn't really wash.

The league is our bread and butter - and has always been - but we'll continually make the effort for Europe as well.

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The attitudes of the two supports towards Europe is entirely different. I know many many people who never miss a Linfield game in the Irish League home or away yet have never followed Linfield away to Europe and have no intention of doing so. Does that make them less a supporter? Not in my eyes it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by pete

The IL has about 2 half decent teams but the rest would get beaten badly over a full league season.

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It's 1-1 in Setanta's so far, and its a fair bet that whoever eliminates Linfield will win it again this year.

While Dungannon's performances have been creditable in the competition, Portadown and Glentoran have admittedly been woeful.

Though Portadown did go to Cork and win 1-0!

Not an exact science i know, but in the 20 years previous to the Republic adopting summer football the North "dominated" in the UEFA co-efficients:

YEAR NI......ROI....SEASONAL. OVERALL
1986 1.333 0.333 +1.000 NI +1.000 NI
1987 1.000 0.000 +1.000 NI +2.000 NI
1988 1.000 0.666 +0.334 NI +2.334 NI
1989 1.000 0.333 +0.667 NI +3.001 NI
1990 0.000 0.000 +3.001 NI
1991 0.666 1.000 +0.334 ROI +2.667 NI
1992 0.666 0.666 +2.667 NI
1993 1.000 0.666 +0.334 NI +3.001 NI
1994 1.666 1.333 +0.333 NI +3.334 NI
1995 1.000 1.000 +3.334 NI
1996 1.000 0.666 +0.334 NI +3.668 NI
1997 0.666 0.666 +3.668 NI
1998 0.333 0.333 +3.668 NI
1999 0.333 0.500 +0.167 ROI +3.501 NI
2000 0.166 0.333 +0.166 ROI +3.335 NI
2001 0.333 1.666 +1.333 ROI +2.002 NI
2002 0.333 0.666 +0.333 ROI +1.669 NI
2003 0.333 0.166 +0.167 NI +1.836 NI
2004 0.500 0.333 +0.167 NI +2.003 NI
2005 0.666 1.333 +0.667 ROI +1.336 NI

2006 0.500 *1.833 +1.333 ROI +0.003 NI
2007 0.166 *2.833 +2.667 ROI +2.664 ROI

* SUMMER FOOTBALL

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Originally Posted by Lux Interior

Something the Derry side of Keely would never do.

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So you are claiming that if we had drawn you lot and the Blues when Keely was in charge we wouldn't have sold 400 tickets to the away game?

Yer talking through your hoop!

Rubbish moved here. If you're not able to leave the politics out of it, píss off to another site.

this claim of a 'large sleeping support' is complete bollax.
Id say the majority of clubs in ireland have a large 'sleeping support'.
We could claim that also, as we got nearly 12000 for our Cup Winners cup tie with club brugge in the 90s.
Sure when we got promoted 2 seasons ago we sold out the ground for 5500 with no away fans there, and when we played derry in the cup semi last season we got another full house albeit with a massive derry away following of nearly 2000.

We also broght 700 to derry for the replay, it was ment to be one of the largest away crowds for them that season.

But this thing of a 'large sleeping support' is irrelevant, shams could claim the same, as they did play in milltown with crowds over 20000. Every club has potential, its the attendances now which matter.

And the crowds in the north at the minute are abysmal.

On Saturday Portadown [4th, and in a slump] couldnt have had more than 600 at their game, while from the tv pics Cliftonville [2nd, and on a roll] would be lucky if they'd 400 :(

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Originally Posted by AnnaghRed

And the crowds in the north at the minute are abysmal.

On Saturday Portadown [4th, and in a slump] couldnt have had more than 600 at their game, while from the tv pics Cliftonville [2nd, and on a roll] would be lucky if they'd 400 :(

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Crowds where abysmal this Saturday. For a number of reasons. But I'm sure there are abysmal crowds some weekends at every LOI team to. It is not uncommon.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Crowds where abysmal this Saturday. For a number of reasons. But I'm sure there are abysmal crowds some weekends at every LOI team to. It is not uncommon.

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Though undoubtedly crowds in the EL are better than crowds in the IL full-stop. We're only 2 games in to the 2007 season, but if the current crowds stay even vaguely close to where they are now across the season then we'll be way-ahead of the IL as a whole,a dn any individual IL team, on attendances.

Our first division average is tracking to be higher than the IL's Premier division average - and our First has some seriously badly supported clubs (Monaghan, Kilkenny, Cobh, Kildare)

No matter what way you chose to look at it, support for the IL is behind support for the EL. Whether or not we have the odd weekend of bad crowds ourselves doesn't alter that fact.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Though undoubtedly crowds in the EL are better than crowds in the IL full-stop. We're only 2 games in to the 2007 season, but if the current crowds stay even vaguely close to where they are now across the season then we'll be way-ahead of the IL as a whole,a dn any individual IL team, on attendances.

Our first division average is tracking to be higher than the IL's Premier division average - and our First has some seriously badly supported clubs (Monaghan, Kilkenny, Cobh, Kildare)

No matter what way you chose to look at it, support for the IL is behind support for the EL. Whether or not we have the odd weekend of bad crowds ourselves doesn't alter that fact.

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thereby underlining Jeffries wholly correct assertion that a merger of the two leagues is not practical.

I agree with him wholeheartedly and this thread underlines why it should never be on the agenda

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Originally Posted by wws

thereby underlining Jeffries wholly correct assertion that a merger of the two leagues is not practical.

I agree with him wholeheartedly and this thread underlines why it should never be on the agenda

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How can you claim that what is clearly an opinion from Jeffries - one perhaps influenced by the political ethos from which Linfield comes, and one that is clearly at odds with the views of many other IL teams/managers - is wholly correct ? Unless of course that is just your own opinion on the matter.

Why would having 2 leagues with differing attendance levels make integration unpractical ?? :confused:

There is nothing endemic in either league's attendance levels. Both have experienced dramatically better and dramatically worse attendances in the past. In particular - as they exist in the heartland for soccer on the island, teams in the north have greater 'potential' to attract crowds than most EL teams do.

Finally - is it impractical to have the Eircom first and Premier inter-connected, giving their widely differeing attendance levels ?? Does that mean we should no longer have promotiona nd relegation, as attendances suggest the 2 sets of teams just aren't compatible ?

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Though undoubtedly crowds in the EL are better than crowds in the IL full-stop. We're only 2 games in to the 2007 season, but if the current crowds stay even vaguely close to where they are now across the season then we'll be way-ahead of the IL as a whole,a dn any individual IL team, on attendances.

Our first division average is tracking to be higher than the IL's Premier division average - and our First has some seriously badly supported clubs (Monaghan, Kilkenny, Cobh, Kildare)

No matter what way you chose to look at it, support for the IL is behind support for the EL. Whether or not we have the odd weekend of bad crowds ourselves doesn't alter that fact.

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I would agree with most of that. But I do think that linfields average attendance is no less than your own.

Also going by sources on this site, the crowds from this weekend are down by 5000 from the weekend before. 22,000 the first weekend 17,000 weekend past. Which dont get me wrong is still a great attendance but I think there will be a continuing trend for most part of the season, with the average crowd per week would be around the 14-15000 mark. Which would still be 5000 or more, more than the IL.

I'm not going to argue who has the biggest support on this island, but all i'm saying is Linfield would definatly be up there.

But I do not base the biggest club by just support. A lot of things should be factored in, eg stadia/facilities, brand, support & Success.

I think its safe to say we have the best football ground on this island, facilities I'm not sure about, so wouldnt argue with anyone about that. But we do have our own training ground and have youth teams right down to under 10s.

We are a brand name, I'd say we would be one of the most well known clubs on this island, which I think is the reason we are the most shown club in the Setanta cup.

Support, Linfield and Derry City are the two best supported teams, unfortunatly for Linfield we are not allowed to bring our full extent of our support to away games. We had 1,300 at Shelbourne last season. We had around 700+ at Drogheda(Home tickets bought by Linfield, also people who paid in at the gate, or got in for nothing, also forgeries)

Success, there is no one who could argue with us on that. We have won more trophies than anyone on this island.

These are the criteria i would put down for being the biggest club on the island. And apart from some people in different clubs, most people would agree with that. Even the papers in the Republic would agree with that statement. As the headline showed a couple of years ago.

"Linfield remain high kings of Irish soccer"

With the first paragraph saying something like - A lot of things has happened in Ireland in the last 30 years, but one thing remains and Linfield are the high kings of Irish soccer.(irish independant)

So we've got the support, we have the stadium, we have the team, we have the success and we have our history.

Although some aspects might be better on other teams, but I think Linfield have everything better rounded than the rest.

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Originally Posted by AnnaghRed

And the crowds in the north at the minute are abysmal.

On Saturday Portadown [4th, and in a slump] couldnt have had more than 600 at their game, while from the tv pics Cliftonville [2nd, and on a roll] would be lucky if they'd 400 :(

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Our crowd was down on recent weeks on Saturday but much of that was down to it being St Paddy's day parades etc, though I believe that the crowd was in the 500/600 region.

I would reckon that our average this season would be near 1,000.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

MOD EDIT: Don't quote entire posts please.

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To be honest i feel that shamrock rovers is the biggest club in ireland, imo the had enormous crowds milltown and they still achieve not far off your own attendances with no home ground. they also fill out the other criteria you have set down barring the stadium, hopefully that will be rectified soon.

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Originally Posted by Da Real Rover

To be honest i feel that shamrock rovers is the biggest club in ireland, imo the had enormous crowds milltown and they still achieve not far off your own attendances with no home ground. they also fill out the other criteria you have set down barring the stadium, hopefully that will be rectified soon.

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Anyone but Linfield eh;)

Pats are a by a mile but you'll always get the partizan leanings from the less objective posters rendering the argument futile.

Pats v Linfield - our paths will soon cross.

as they say in Highlander
There can be only one!

Linfield are the big draw in Ireland. Everybody wants to beat the blues and they have that winning mentality of a big club, Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a realtiy check. Rovers went off the radar in 1987 after the sale at Miltown unfortunately.