and 1-0 to cameroon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba
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and 1-0 to cameroon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba
Cameroon were no great shakes that year either, which was proven by the fact that they didn't qualify out of a very poor group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
3-0 against the Saudi's flattered us, it really did. They dominated for long periods after the first goal went in and it was really only when we got the second (from a set piece might I add) that they really dropped the heads...
I agree, we were poor between the first and second goals. No doubt. I was there. The game was played in a virtual monsoon - an excuse maybe? Nerves played a part too I think, but that's when leadership in the middle was called for I admit.
I thought Kinsella & Holland did a good job at WC02 by and large. They also had good games without Keane in qualifying, notably away to Estonia. Holland scored that day too I think. But comparing this class of player to Keane is ridiculous. We were blessed to have such a player, but that doesn't mean that the others shouldn't be appreciated. I'd take a Kinsella / Holland paretnership from 5 yrs ago over what we have now any day.
I always felt that Holland's neat & tidy approach, whilst not of obvious appeal to spectators & pundits, was exactly the type of midfield contribution his team mates would appreciate.
[QUOTE=Dr. Ogba;566706]Cameroon were no great shakes that year either, which was proven by the fact that they didn't qualify out of a very poor group.QUOTE]
Poor group???????
With World cup finalists in it, and the top rated African team? Plus ourselves who happened to stop Holland from qualifying.
I remember before the cameroon game, everyone was arguing over how much we would lose by. Then we go and get a deserved draw and suddenly Cameroon are sh*te.
Bottom line, we performed well in WC 02, without RK, who apparently, from comments above was so deperate to play in a World Cup.
I think it would be unfair on any Irish midfielder of the time and at the present to be compared to Keane, it just shouldn't be done as he wa a once-off. For Holland, what you would call neat and tidy, I would call anonymous and ineffective, matter of opinion I suppose (even though I'm right :D )Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Cameroon were hyped as a great team, nothing more. In reality, as shown, they were average at best...Quote:
Originally Posted by nedder
Look my point is that we flattered to deceive in that WC and rode our luck quite a few times and at the root of this was a distinctly average midfield of which Matt Holland was an integral part. When asked to step up to the plate and dominate the midfield he just wasn't up to it...Funnily enough I actually preffered Kinsella as a player cause there was a bit more bite to him, he was always willing to put the tackle in but, as a midfield partnership they just didn't work as they were too similar and neither could pass the ball!!
Also I'm trying to make this argument without mentioning RK which has been done to death :rolleyes:
To be consistent, I've got to acknowledge that when I swa Alan Quinn & Matt Holland play side-by-side in the Unity Cup at The Valley, Quinn stood out by a mile as the more effective player.
simple people laugh easily.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by nedder
Owlsfan you cant see anything through those saipan tinted glasses of yours.
They were dyin to get rid of Macarthy at Millwall at the time. and they were headin down and they did go down. yes the spain match was brutal. the swiss match was shocking. you say last match in charge as if that excuses it? Russia away was a farce. Swiss home was a farce as well. Macedonia away twice were farces. Iceland home and away farces. belgium home and away ? Ireland only played marginaly better in second leg but were played off the park in first leg despite taking a one nil lead. Holland home ,portugal home and cyprus away were all in no small part due to Roy Keanes influence on all the games. he had a massive game in them all which dragged the rest of them with him. holland away we were two goals up and still threw it away. we found our true level in the World cup. couldnt beat anyone except a very poor saudi team. were blessed against spain to get to extra time and were poor against cameroon. the first two keane -less games of the following campaign were absolutely clueless performances agaisnt swiss and russia. anyone who looks back on macarthys time as some golden era in irish football either only started getting into it around the qualifiers for the 2002 WC or knows nothing about football. thats you in the second category owlsfan. as for your roy keane dig at me? your the one who is the sheffield wednesday fan. didnt think they had much to do with Ireland? fact is Macarthy qualified for one out of 3 tournaments. if rebuilding is an excuse he shouldnt have taken the job. echoes of staunton now. if he needs to learn how to be a manager he should feck off and do it on someone elses time. Interesting thing in Magraths book that fergie basically admits he didnt have enough experience to know how to handle certain situations when he first took over Man U. where the hell does that leave the FAIs policy of recruiting and overpayin the Wallsal waterboy?
Mick has said that he was too inexperienced when he took the Irish job. However he, like Stan, couldnt turn it down.
Mick never let his country down. And if your pal had so much desire to play in a WC where was he during it?
Facts are we qualified for a World Cup under Mick's tenure. Take away a last mninte goal in Iran and we went through the whole qualification and tournament unbeaten.
In his first campaign we were one goal from qualifying. Not bad after blooding so many new players. Granted we should have got to Euro 2000 though.
And as owlsfan rightly says there have been more talented Irish teams that never qualified for a tournament.
KOH
We could certainly do with Matt Holland now!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba
Not too sure about being 'blessed' there Bill - Ian Harte missed a pen which if he had not bottled would have meant we'd have avoided extra time altogether! The first 20 against Cameroon were poor but once the lads settled they outplayed Cameroon comprehensively and created enough chances to win!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Would sooner have Lee Carsley any day!Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet
he let his country down by consistantly bein a crap manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
roy keane let his country down by consistantly being our best player?
where were you in WC 2002?
why werent you playin for Ireland?
did you let your country down by deciding not to throw all your energies into playing football? I think ya did. traitor.
Roy Keane is a legend, however there is two sides to every coin, and without keane and the whole **** surrounding his departure, the players who put on the green shirt did their country proud in Saipan, we deserved and should have beat Spain. Credit were credit is due, we are debating how good we were or were not in WC02, wouldn't it be nice to have to judge are players in a tournament again.
P.S. Holland may not be world class, but i am sure he would have done a much better job in the middle of the park than S Ireland & Kilbane did against cyprus.
Eight competitive defeats in seven years doesnt constitute crap I'm afraid. You obviously have a chip on your shoulder regarding him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
Rest of your post doesnt make any sense really traitor lover.
KOH
Ah very clever, I see what you did there...:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
Holland is well past it now i believe and would not be much use to us but 5 years ago he was an extremely effective midfielder, captain of his club, and banging in the goals from midfield. He did more than his fair share in helping us to qualify for 2002 and thats as much down to management by mick as anything else.
as soon as mccarthy went holland became a nothing player for us. there is something to be said for him playing well alongside keane as did phil babb alongside mcgrath but to say he was ****e for ireland is utter rubbish.
he didnt look interested when playing for us after mccarthy which in my opinion means that he knew that the good times were over and that he just didnt want to play for us anymore and that in itself is sad and a reason why i would have no interest in having him back.
:D v goodQuote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
my chip stems from enduring 6 odd years of his crap stewardship. I will go on the evidance of my own eyes over the evidance of your ability to use google
God bless your eyesight then chip. Great evidence: I dont like him therefore he cant manage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
KOH
No he made managerial schoolboy errors which cost us games we could have won.