Linfield launch anti-sectarian "True Blue" campaign

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15/08/2006, 2:38 PM
lefty

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I would be interested to hear how the perception of Linfield has changed amongst Eircom League fans since the start of the Setanta Cup. I know it has not been problem free for us but I really do think that the image of the club and its supporters has improved immensley. Would be interested in your thoughts.

Changed a lot i would say. We were all a bit ignorant of Linfield i reckon and i for one wouldnt have liked to visit Windsor Park but since the Setanta and the end of the Troubles id more than welcome Linfield fans down to humble Belfield Park and would like to go see a Linfield match up in Windsor. I couldnt give a **** that your mascot is called Billy Blue or that you wave Union Jacks. Linfield is and will probably always be a working class protestant club in Belfast. It shouldnt move or have to move away from that
15/08/2006, 3:28 PM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by lefty

Changed a lot i would say. We were all a bit ignorant of Linfield i reckon and i for one wouldnt have liked to visit Windsor Park but since the Setanta and the end of the Troubles id more than welcome Linfield fans down to humble Belfield Park and would like to go see a Linfield match up in Windsor. I couldnt give a **** that your mascot is called Billy Blue or that you wave Union Jacks. Linfield is and will probably always be a working class protestant club in Belfast. It shouldnt move or have to move away from that

Cheers for that and you are more than welcome at Windsor anytime.
15/08/2006, 8:50 PM
Schwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

We don't have the same problems that Linfield do, nor does the EL have the same problem thatthe IL does, so why would we need to get involved in such an initiative ? :confused:

There has been a bridge building initiative between Dundalk and Linfield for over a decade now.

Clubs aside, the main Derry City supporters group has a good relationship with the 1st Londonderry Linfield Supporters Club in our city, each group having hosted the other for events this year. Beyond that, why would City want to be involved in an initiative that simply isn't an issue. Should Man united fans join Rangers or Celtic in the Scottish club's initiatives to stamp out sectarianism...?

Not because of Derry having that much problems but more as an embracement of the idea...As some peeps like to mention is Derry NI:s second city eh?

But the Manchester thingy was actually a good example as there once was a divide in both Liverpool and Manchester
16/08/2006, 1:08 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwalker

Not because of Derry having that much problems but more as an embracement of the idea...As some peeps like to mention is Derry NI:s second city eh?

But the Manchester thingy was actually a good example as there once was a divide in both Liverpool and Manchester

Derry was actually the north's first and only city for over 200 years- back when Belfast was merely a couple of mud huts and a cow :D That aside we're currently it's second by size (please ignore any pro-Lisburn hype...). But why would we want to get involved in an initiative that has feck all to do with us ? Do you think our club have nothing else to be doing with their time ?? :confused:

There is still a religious divide in Liverpool. Not as manifest as in the West of Scotland, but it none-the-less exists on a low level. They have Orange parades and bands based there, for example. It would be no great surprise to have someone hurl sectarian abuse at you in Liverpool if you were Irish. Not massively common - but not surprising either.

Manchester has not historically had a religious divide any worse than your average English city, so I'm not sure where you got that idea from. I'm sure if Celtic or Rangers asked Man U to get involved with them in an anti-sectarianism campaign they'd just draw blank and puzzled faces in response.
16/08/2006, 12:58 PM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Derry was actually the north's first and only city for over 200 years- back when Belfast was merely a couple of mud huts and a cow :D That aside we're currently it's second by size (please ignore any pro-Lisburn hype...). But why would we want to get involved in an initiative that has feck all to do with us ? Do you think our club have nothing else to be doing with their time ?? :confused:

There is still a religious divide in Liverpool. Not as manifest as in the West of Scotland, but it none-the-less exists on a low level. They have Orange parades and bands based there, for example. It would be no great surprise to have someone hurl sectarian abuse at you in Liverpool if you were Irish. Not massively common - but not surprising either.

Manchester has not historically had a religious divide any worse than your average English city, so I'm not sure where you got that idea from. I'm sure if Celtic or Rangers asked Man U to get involved with them in an anti-sectarianism campaign they'd just draw blank and puzzled faces in response.

I accept totally that you do not have a problem as such but would you not agree that this is at least partly due to the fact that you play in the Eircom League. If you were in the Irish league (and I know that this will not happen) then I feel that you too could have a bit of a problem as there were shouts of a sectarian nature (admittedly on a small scale) from both sets of supporters when we played at the Brandywell in the Setanta Cup.
16/08/2006, 3:54 PM
Schwalker

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Derry was actually the north's first and only city for over 200 years- back when Belfast was merely a couple of mud huts and a cow :D That aside we're currently it's second by size (please ignore any pro-Lisburn hype...). But why would we want to get involved in an initiative that has feck all to do with us ? Do you think our club have nothing else to be doing with their time ?? :confused:

There is still a religious divide in Liverpool. Not as manifest as in the West of Scotland, but it none-the-less exists on a low level. They have Orange parades and bands based there, for example. It would be no great surprise to have someone hurl sectarian abuse at you in Liverpool if you were Irish. Not massively common - but not surprising either.

Manchester has not historically had a religious divide any worse than your average English city, so I'm not sure where you got that idea from. I'm sure if Celtic or Rangers asked Man U to get involved with them in an anti-sectarianism campaign they'd just draw blank and puzzled faces in response.

I lived two years in Manchester so I heard stories...There used to be a Rangers/City allegiance as well as a United/Celtic one according to the oldsters..But that�s history now.

As a matter of fact both clubs was in their earliest stage founded by people from Ireland. United by factory workers and City by sailors from Belfast.
17/08/2006, 12:44 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I accept totally that you do not have a problem as such but would you not agree that this is at least partly due to the fact that you play in the Eircom League. If you were in the Irish league (and I know that this will not happen) then I feel that you too could have a bit of a problem as there were shouts of a sectarian nature (admittedly on a small scale) from both sets of supporters when we played at the Brandywell in the Setanta Cup.

David - shut up. We've had to listen to your pathetic gurning on other threads about this.

If, if, if......! Look - we don't play in the IL any more, we play in the EL. So hypothesising over what our fans may or may not be like if we did play there is frankly feckin irrelevant. We had zero problems the 2 times the Glens fans came to town - which blows your implicit suggestion that our fans are only well behaved for want of oportunity not to be. Furthermore - I suspect strongly that broadly the same people who support the club now would be doing so if we were in the IL. So unless they're all closet bigots holding back until the day we enter the IL to let loose, your theory is again nonsense.

David - there's only one team between Derry City and Linfield that has a living, breathing, sectarian problem. One numpty in a crowd shouting something on one occassion is NOT evidence of a PROBLEM. Having to set-up a campaign to get your more bigoted supporters to shut the hell up is ! Guessing what could happen if aliens landed or other meaningless events, such as DCFC in the IL, occured is just pathetic. Focus on your own fans and the current reality - not our fans and what you hypothesise could or couldn't happen on a different planet..... :rolleyes:
17/08/2006, 12:57 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwalker

I lived two years in Manchester so I heard stories...There used to be a Rangers/City allegiance as well as a United/Celtic one according to the oldsters..But that�s history now.

As a matter of fact both clubs was in their earliest stage founded by people from Ireland. United by factory workers and City by sailors from Belfast.

Schwalker - I don't know who told you this, but I suspect they may well have had both arms tugging firmly on your lower limbs...

Man United was NOT set-up by Irish factory workers. It began life as the works team of a Lancashire and Yorkshire railways depot (hence the original name of Newton Heath). The Irish were involved in the railways in England - but in the donkey work like building the feckin things, not the engineering works.

Man City was NOT set-up by sailors from Belfast either (I can barely contain my mirth at the comedy nature of the suggestion...) City began began life as a church team (St Marks), set-up by Church wardens to give local kids in South-East Manchester something to do. They changed their name when they wanted to attract players from outside their congregation. The club did take on a minor freemason's link some years later when they went bust, but that had nothing to do with Ireland and everything to do with the religious/bizarre preferences of the main guy who saved therm financially.

As for 'links' between certain clubs - mostly a mixture of individual preferences, nonesense, or historical links through players/managers/games/mutual respect etc. But trying to suggest that Manchester had even a small percentage of the sectarian history or strife that either Liverpool or Glasgow did (and still do) is ridiculous

Not everything someone from a place tells you is automatically true. I suggest strongly you carry a large container of salt with you to ingest whenever people tell you fables like this again...
17/08/2006, 6:39 AM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

David - shut up. We've had to listen to your pathetic gurning on other threads about this.

If, if, if......! Look - we don't play in the IL any more, we play in the EL. So hypothesising over what our fans may or may not be like if we did play there is frankly feckin irrelevant. We had zero problems the 2 times the Glens fans came to town - which blows your implicit suggestion that our fans are only well behaved for want of oportunity not to be. Furthermore - I suspect strongly that broadly the same people who support the club now would be doing so if we were in the IL. So unless they're all closet bigots holding back until the day we enter the IL to let loose, your theory is again nonsense.

David - there's only one team between Derry City and Linfield that has a living, breathing, sectarian problem. One numpty in a crowd shouting something on one occassion is NOT evidence of a PROBLEM. Having to set-up a campaign to get your more bigoted supporters to shut the hell up is ! Guessing what could happen if aliens landed or other meaningless events, such as DCFC in the IL, occured is just pathetic. Focus on your own fans and the current reality - not our fans and what you hypothesise could or couldn't happen on a different planet..... :rolleyes:

More than one person involved in sectarian abuse when we were at the Brandywell and there was reportedly problems when you played at the Oval. I know that these were allegedly not Derry supporters but I could say exactly the same about those that create a problem at our games as they only seem to come to the big games. You may not be in the Irish League but you will in all probability be in the Setanta Cup and facing the likes of ourselves, Glentoran and Portadown on a regular basis. There may also be an all Ireland league on the horizon which will mean facing Northern Irish teams on an even more regular basis but sure you keep burying your head in the sand and keep thinking that this is only a Linfield problem. :rolleyes:
17/08/2006, 6:41 AM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwalker

Not because of Derry having that much problems but more as an embracement of the idea...As some peeps like to mention is Derry NI:s second city eh?

But the Manchester thingy was actually a good example as there once was a divide in both Liverpool and Manchester

Schwalker you will very quickly realise that dcfcsteve is never wrong and your opinion is only valid if you agree with him and other Derry City supporters. Watch out, if you disagree you may well be branded a bigot.
17/08/2006, 10:20 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Schwalker you will very quickly realise that dcfcsteve is never wrong and your opinion is only valid if you agree with him and other Derry City supporters. Watch out, if you disagree you may well be branded a bigot.

Yet another cheap and petty jibe at DCFC supporters from you David. At least you're consistent.

So - are you tryihng to say the Manchester teams were set-up by Irish factory workers and Belfast dockers....? :confused:
17/08/2006, 10:34 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

More than one person involved in sectarian abuse when we were at the Brandywell and there was reportedly problems when you played at the Oval. I know that these were allegedly not Derry supporters but I could say exactly the same about those that create a problem at our games as they only seem to come to the big games. You may not be in the Irish League but you will in all probability be in the Setanta Cup and facing the likes of ourselves, Glentoran and Portadown on a regular basis. There may also be an all Ireland league on the horizon which will mean facing Northern Irish teams on an even more regular basis but sure you keep burying your head in the sand and keep thinking that this is only a Linfield problem. :rolleyes:

David - let me explain the word 'problem' to you.

Imagine I go out tonight, get blind drunk and fall over, start fights, make a general disgrace of myself and then miss work the next day. If that's something that had either never or at most very rarely happened to me before, and didn't happen again for at least some time, then it would be completely wrong to say I had a drink 'problem'. It would just be the sort of thing that unfortunately happens to a lot of people at some stage in their lives.

However - if I did the above and it was something that happened on a relatively regular basis (continuially getting blind drunk, starting fights, falling over, missing work as a result), then yes - I would clearly have a drink 'problem'.

Transferring that over to the football. If one or two idiots in the Brandywell traded (as you've admitted, it wasn't one-sided) abuse with Linfiled fans, and that was a one-off, then it is ridiculous to say we have a sectarianism 'problem'. There was nothing of the sort at the two Glentoran home games a the Windsor away (and I'm sure you'dd tell us if there was... ). There was a minor issue at the Glens away game with people with Belfast accents wearing Cliftonville polo shirts, who ended up fighting with the Derry fans who told them to shut up or get out. That was fans of another club looking to use us to cause hassle. That's very different to people turning up to your games every so often looking for trouble, as again it was isolated and clearly unique. Also - Derry fans aren't afraid to tell any bigots in our presence to shut up. But all I've ever heard on ILF and other places is that everyone's too afraid to tell the bigots at Linfield games to shut up, as they don't know if they're connected. So yet again the degree of the 'problem' at Linfield out-surpassses anything with regards the isolated instances re Derry.

So - our club may suffer from the extremely odd instance of sectarianism from individuals (and who are usually set straight by our other fans), but this does not represent a 'problem'. You may hypothesise that this is only due to a lack of oppoprtunity - but the hassle-free Glens vists to our ground and the hassle-free visit of 800 of us to yours suggests otherwise. Conversely - having significant numbers of fans season-in, season-out involved in sectarian singing - so much so that your own club has to launch a high profile initiative to tackle it - now THAT is a 'problem'....

But sure, you're right David - Linfield fans are no worse than anyone else..... :rolleyes: Just you keep up your petty digs at DCFC David. I don't think anyone on this site's in any doubt now as to your agenda....
17/08/2006, 10:48 AM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Yet another cheap and petty jibe at DCFC supporters from you David. At least you're consistent.

So - are you tryihng to say the Manchester teams were set-up by Irish factory workers and Belfast dockers....? :confused:

I honestly have not got a clue, I know very little of the history of either team. It is your attitude to others when you post that I am referring to here, not that this particular statement was innacurate. As for the other parts of Schwalkers post, it is pretty common knowledge that there have for a long time been links between Man Utd and Celtic. Indeed did Celtic not play a European game at Old Trafford during the 80's?
17/08/2006, 10:57 AM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

David - let me explain the word 'problem' to you.

Imagine I go out tonight, get blind drunk and fall over, start fights, make a general disgrace of myself and then miss work the next day. If that's something that had either never or at most very rarely happened to me before, and didn't happen again for at least some time, then it would be completely wrong to say I had a drink 'problem'. It would just be the sort of thing that unfortunately happens to a lot of people at some stage in their lives.

However - if I did the above and it was something that happened on a relatively regular basis (continuially getting blind drunk, starting fights, falling over, missing work as a result), then yes - I would clearly have a drink 'problem'.

Transferring that over to the football. If one or two idiots in the Brandywell traded (as you've admitted, it wasn't one-sided) abuse with Linfiled fans, and that was a one-off, then it is ridiculous to say we have a sectarianism 'problem'. There was nothing of the sort at the two Glentoran home games a the Windsor away (and I'm sure you'dd tell us if there was... ). There was a minor issue at the Glens away game with people with Belfast accents wearing Cliftonville polo shirts, who ended up fighting with the Derry fans who told them to shut up or get out. That was fans of another club looking to use us to cause hassle. That's very different to people turning up to your games every so often looking for trouble, as again it was isolated and clearly unique. Also - Derry fans aren't afraid to tell any bigots in our presence to shut up. But all I've ever heard on ILF and other places is that everyone's too afraid to tell the bigots at Linfield games to shut up, as they don't know if they're connected. So yet again the degree of the 'problem' at Linfield out-surpassses anything with regards the isolated instances re Derry.

So - our club may suffer from the extremely odd instance of sectarianism from individuals (and who are usually set straight by our other fans), but this does not represent a 'problem'. You may hypothesise that this is only due to a lack of oppoprtunity - but the hassle-free Glens vists to our ground and the hassle-free visit of 800 of us to yours suggests otherwise. Conversely - having significant numbers of fans season-in, season-out involved in sectarian singing - so much so that your own club has to launch a high profile initiative to tackle it - now THAT is a 'problem'....

But sure, you're right David - Linfield fans are no worse than anyone else..... :rolleyes: Just you keep up your petty digs at DCFC David. I don't think anyone on this site's in any doubt now as to your agenda....

What is that agenda. I have no problem whatsoever with Derry City. They are of little importance to me, I really could not care less how well or otherwise you do. What I do have a problem with is at times the attitude of some Derry City supporters and I think I have documented those problems very well.

As for the other things in your post. At Windsor it was DCFC members only allowed to attend the away end. I can guarantee that if our support was ever restricted to members only then we too would not have any problem with sectarianism. As I have stated many times, both here and elsewhere, your supporters were a credit to your club, city and the Eircom League as a whole that night. Out of the other 3 games against Irish League opposition in the Setanta there were problems at at least two of them (whether down to genuine Derry City fans or not, they were amongst your support). Therefore is it not a fair assumption that if you were playing such teams on a more regular basis then the problem could well be more apparent?
17/08/2006, 11:24 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

What is that agenda. I have no problem whatsoever with Derry City. They are of little importance to me, I really could not care less how well or otherwise you do. What I do have a problem with is at times the attitude of some Derry City supporters and I think I have documented those problems very well.

I strongly suspect any impartial observer reading your posts and watching you turn inoccuous threads (NI passports, Irish Cup Final..) into attacked on DCFC supporters out of the blue may well disagree. And for a man who cares little for our club, you devote an awful lot of your time and energy on this site discussing/discrediting us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

As for the other things in your post. At Windsor it was DCFC members only allowed to attend the away end. I can guarantee that if our support was ever restricted to members only then we too would not have any problem with sectarianism.

The Linfield support at the game in the Brandywell was strictly restricted to members - but you yourself admit that Linfield fans were involved in trading insults with some individual Derry fans. So on the one hand you tar our club on the basis of a few isolated individuals, and also claim that any good behaviour on our part is purely down to restricted tickets. Then on the other hand you ignore the actions your own individuals when they ARE members of your official suppport !! How can you say you'd have no problems if it was members only, when you clearly did at a memebrs only event ! And events of a sufficient nature for you to tar my club over them. What's good for the goose....

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

As I have stated many times, both here and elsewhere, your supporters were a credit to your club, city and the Eircom League as a whole that night. Out of the other 3 games against Irish League opposition in the Setanta there were problems at at least two of them (whether down to genuine Derry City fans or not, they were amongst your support).

I've told you clearly what happened at the Glens game. That was clearly a freakish incident, and nothing to do with fans of our club.

As for you saying we have a problem due to a couple of idiots trading insults with your fans, as I've explained above - you don't seem to grasp the mweaning of the word 'problem'.

The day Derry fans can be clearly heard signing grossly offensive sectarian songs on national TV is the day I'll listen to you on this issue David. Stop pointing out and hyping-up a splinter in other peoples eyes, whilst ignoring the Alpine forest in your own.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by david

Therefore is it not a fair assumption that if you were playing such teams on a more regular basis then the problem could well be more apparent?

Would we have isolated individuals shouting abuse occassionally ? Unfortunately probably yes. This is sadly happens at all football games all over the world. In the Republic it would be insulst about being 'knackers' 'junkies' 'Free Staters' etc. In England, about being kiddy fiddlers (Middlesborough), southern ponces (take your pick), thieves (Liverpool/Everton) etc. In Northern Ireland it would unfortunately, amongst other things, probabnly be about religion. Isolated individuals sadly reflect both the problems of society, and focus on the obvious forms of insult. But would we have an incident like the Cliftonville fans at the Oval every week ? I seriously doubt it. Even if they did try to come back (unwelcome though they were made to feel), they'd soon get bored with no-one being interested in their sectarianism and go corrupt Donegal Celtic or saome other club.

We have had 6 games against Linfield and Glentoran in the last 2 years. Of those 6, all you can mention is one anecdotal case of individuals trading abuse, and another the fairly unusual event of our support being infiltrated by Cliftonville fans looking to cause trouble. That's not even half of the games, ffs - and at least one was a freakish one-off incident. Yet it's enough for you to hypothesis on our general behaviour to suit your wee agenda. Catch yerself on...
17/08/2006, 11:32 AM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The Linfield support at the game in the Brandywell was strictly restricted to members

As usual you do not let little things like facts get in the way of an argument.
17/08/2006, 11:36 AM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The day Derry fans can be clearly heard signing grossly offensive sectarian songs on national TV is the day I'll listen to you on this issue David. Stop pointing out and hyping-up a splinter in other peoples eyes, whilst ignoring the Alpine forest in your own.....

Can you please explain how I am ignoring the problem? Yet again you are not letting trivial things like facts get in the way.
17/08/2006, 11:40 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

As usual you do not let little things like facts get in the way of an argument.

Was it not ?? I think you might want to make the Derry City FC official aware of that then......

So tell me then - how were the very limited number of tickets distributed ?
17/08/2006, 11:43 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Can you please explain how I am ignoring the problem? Yet again you are not letting trivial things like facts get in the way.

Can you please explain where above says you are ignoring it ??

What I've clearly said is that DCFC suffers from the occassional isolated incident - which unfortunately reflects the society we live in. That doesn't make it acceptable though. On the other hand, Linfield has something much more regular and endemic, and much bigger than the issue within society in general.

I'm not saying you're ignoring your problem - I am saying you should spend less of your time using isolated incidents to attack us, and more worrying about your own clubs massive problem.
17/08/2006, 12:57 PM
David

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Was it not ?? I think you might want to make the Derry City FC official aware of that then......

So tell me then - how were the very limited number of tickets distributed ?

They were issued on a priority basis, first to members, then season ticket holders and then Travel Card holders.

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