Wider Middle East conflict

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Originally Posted by d f x-

Israel blame Iran...US blames Syria...Lebanon is caught in the middle until they decide, perhaps?

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DFX, I think you will now see the US starting to blame Iran. Hold on a minute did those two not have an issue a few weeks back over something else?? now theres a coincidence. This is what I mean about the "end game" and the worrying part of this is the hidden agenda's. Israel want their two soldiers back, yet they have already lost a minimum of 11 other members of their armed forces trying to achieve this. Still no doubt that Hizbollah have shocked many with their long range missiles.

What's going on in the Gaza strip now? Weren't Israel already pounding it for a captured soldier before the Lebanese crisis? Did they get that soldier back? Do they have any guarantees any of the soldiers are still alive?

VATICAN CITY - 17 July 2006 - 250 words

Vatican condemns Israeli attacks on Lebanon

The Holy See has protested Israel's air raids on Lebanon, condemning both terrorist acts and reprisals that violate national sovereignty and strike at innocent civilians.

On Friday, Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, on Friday read a public statement which was broadcast on Vatican Radio. (Pope Benedict is currently on vacation in the Italian Alps.)

It said: "As in the past, the Holy See condemns both the terrorist attacks on the one side and the military reprisals on the other." It stated that Israel's right to self-defence "does not exempt it from respecting the norms of international law, especially as regards the protection of civilian populations."

"In particular, the Holy See deplores the attack on Lebanon, a free and sovereign nation."

Cardinal Sodano concluded with a renewed appeal for an end to armed struggle and a renewal of negotiations.

Israeli air strikes which have continued since 12 July, have now killed and wounded hundreds of people, mostly civilians. The attacks have disabled power plants, destroyed bridges, and severed major highways.

Meanwhile from their quarters in Lebanon, Hezbollah guerillas have launched a series of rocket attacks on targets inside Israel. Yesterday at least eight people were killed and dozens were injured in an attack on Haifa. Earlier, Christian pilgrims Nazareth, on the Sea of Galilee was hit by several rockets.

Cardinal Sodano said that the Holy Father was carefully following news of the latest developments in the Middle East, "which risk degenerating into a conflict with international repercussions."

Source: Vatican Radio



© Independent Catholic News 2006

Interesting article from antiwar.com by Justin Raimondo.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head in his assessment of the Middle East.

http://antiwar.com/justin/

terrible situation, it makes you wonder why hezbollah kicked it all off. stratfor.com, while unclear as to exactly why, has it that there's a likely combination of factors: hezbollah's influence in palestine is challenged by hamas and they needed to show they are the preeminent extremists in this regard; that syria's departure from lebanon has left a vacuum that hezbollah is exploiting as a window of opportunity that might close; and that the iranians see hezbollah as an efficient leveraging tool (and can fight a war for them hundreds of miles away) - iran continually seeks to be the dominant power in the middle east and actually saw its radical position usurped and outflanked in 2001 by al qaeda. this forced iran to rattle its saber of their nuclear capabilities, wiping israel out, etc. on the surface iran appears irrational, but they want a stable iraq on their border without a long-term u.s. presence. supporting hezbollah's recent rocket attacks is just another leveraging tool in the wider scheme of things.

also: israel cannot tolerate attacks that routinely strike at its heartland. israel and hezbollah have both confirmed that hez rockets can reach tel-aviv. this is unnacceptable to israel. for them to allow sporadic and unpredictable attacks eminating from behind a border to their north without responding is both political and cultural anathema. they want to crush hezbollah to the point where it will take hez years - a generation perhaps - to recover. again, this is all from stratfor's reading of the situation. israel's response hasn't generated condemnation from the western powers so israel cannot pass this open window by either. they have an inherent distrust of international peacekeeping forces and the same can be said of their attitude toward the lebanese security forces who are either unwilling or unable to contain hezbollah's activities inside lebanon.

i deplore the innocent lives lost. although from this analysis you can sort've see why the respective sides behave the way they do.

ken dont know that website, but you are only seeing one side of it there re: second paragraph

The americans could stop this today. Not sending in an envoy until at least this coming Sunday is a disgrace. You have conservatives from both the first Bush admin and Reagans admin telling this current crew of criminals in charge to get an envoy over to the middle-east pronto. The television and radio coverage here in the US is for the most part warped and biased in favour of Israel. But there is a growing unease amongst people here about the blind support for Israel. Watch as Liberman gets beaten in the upcoming election. all due to his support for the war in Iraq.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

ya no one is seeing lebanons side in this, just letting israel do as this please. this is going to be a generalisation that most will agree with but wont want me sayiing it, but all and i mean all, fair enough only about 20 jewish people, that I have met have an extremely arrogant streak, not noticeable at first, as they come across quite friendly but then when you get to know them more you can see it a mile off.

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Do your 20 Jewish friends also hoard lots of money too? I have 2 neighbours, both from Ukraine. One is an electician, the other a plumber. Ukraine must be full of construction workers.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

The americans could stop this today. Not sending in an envoy until at least this coming Sunday is a disgrace. You have conservatives from both the first Bush admin and Reagans admin telling this current crew of criminals in charge to get an envoy over to the middle-east pronto. The television and radio coverage here in the US is for the most part warped and biased in favour of Israel. But there is a growing unease amongst people here about the blind support for Israel. Watch as Liberman gets beaten in the upcoming election. all due to his support for the war in Iraq.

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I agree with you re Bushco, sleeping at the wheel again. As for Lieberman, the pressure is coming more from outside the state, and the usual dem fans such as Streisand etc are pushing Lamont heavily. But I still think Lieberman will win. Though I disagree with his stance over Iraq, he has done a lot for the state.

metrostars you know as well I do any survey is carried out on demographics. if say 50 % of that survey came back with something from about 1,000 ( as a survey is required to have said numbers ) people surveyed saying they liked ice-cream that would be a basis to say 50% of people in that area ( or people of that type ) like ice cream. if i meet 20 people and all, not just 70,80 or 90 % act in a certain way you can be scepitcal, but when 100% conform, then you can relatively say that at least a high percentage of that said people or demograph of people also conform to that way. if ( like many people who have met me ) someone from europe or wherever met 10 irish people and 7 of those liked to have a good few drinks at the weekend surely it would be a fair assumption for that person to form an opinion that a lot of irish people like to have a drink and the craic at the weekend? mais non? and they would be right, because we do. else statistics are flawed.

anyhow thats getting lost on it, why are main news stations biast do you think noely?!?!?! Who is CNN owned by?!?! FOX?!?!? News Corp and who are the main stakeholders in that?

lad its smacking you in the face and if you want to see it you can. thats realism for you not generalisations.

Fine, we can agree to disagree.

BTW, on my estimate, I know about 300 jews and about 100 of them I know them very well. Those people I know are no more arogant than any other group of people. So what does that tell you? But what does that matter anyway, these are jews who not live in Israel.

As for CNNCBSFOXNEWSMSNBCABC, I don't bother watching them. They're all crap, opinionated and biased. I tend to read a lot of stuff instead. The only news I watch on TV is for local news.

ya metro fair enough agree to disagree. i should note above though the 20 i mentioned above would be praticing jews. a close and good friend is jewish by birth but thats where the buck stops!!!

but answer me this why do you think those channels stated by me above are so biased?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

ya metro fair enough agree to disagree. i should note above though the 20 i mentioned above would be praticing jews. a close and good friend is jewish by birth but thats where the buck stops!!!

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Paul, I generally agree with your take on this subject for the most part. However, theres one thing that some of you need to realise, "Jew" doesn't necessarily mean "Israeli".

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

ken dont know that website, but you are only seeing one side of it there re: second paragraph

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well that's why i posted TWO paragraphs! and neither represent my opinion, like i said, they are the paraphrased analyses of strategic forecasting based in austin texas. i believe in the creation of a palestinian state, am skeptical of the notion of isreali supranationalism, and that israel often responds with far too much force.

still... why DID hezbollah launch rockets into israel? that's the real question to be pondered, surely. israel's response is, after all, very predictable at this stage.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

ya metro fair enough agree to disagree. i should note above though the 20 i mentioned above would be praticing jews. a close and good friend is jewish by birth but thats where the buck stops!!!

but answer me this why do you think those channels stated by me above are so biased?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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The reason: They cater to their audiences who get to hear what they want to hear. Whether it is truthful or not doesnt really matter to them. TBH for all it's warts, I much prefer the RTE news to any of the mainstream garbage that is shown over here e.g. the only time I saw an interview of el Bush that was honest and unscripted was the only the Carol Coleman one.

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Originally Posted by ken foree

still... why DID hezbollah launch rockets into israel? that's the real question to be pondered, surely. israel's response is, after all, very predictable at this stage.

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I need to go back to the start of this actually. What was the order of events? Hezbollah, takes two Israeli's prisoner - Israel reponds with attacks on Lebanon, THEN Hezbollah started firing rockets? I thought that was the order of events (in relation to the opening up of the "northern" front).

Anyway, in response to your question, its possible that Hezbollah wanted to take some of the heat off Hamas and the Palestinians as they were gettin' flattened for taking the first Israeli prisoner.

I think its important that use of the word "kidnapped" isn't used. If kidnapped is appropriate, then we have to say that Israel "kidnapped" hundreds of Palestinians. It can't be "kidnapping" for one side, and "arresting" for the other, its just symantics being used by one side to paint a bad image of the other.

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Originally Posted by Metrostars

The reason: They cater to their audiences who get to hear what they want to hear. Whether it is truthful or not doesnt really matter to them. TBH for all it's warts, I much prefer the RTE news to any of the mainstream garbage that is shown over here e.g. the only time I saw an interview of el Bush that was honest and unscripted was the only the Carol Coleman one.

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Same here Metrostars. I could not have worded that response any better. It just amazes me how many people in the US fall for that type of 'News' reporting, or should I say Broadcasting.

Back to one of your original points about jewish influence in the US congress. The problem is not a jewish influence but rather a Christian-right influence who see it as their job to help Israel at all costs. I know many jewish here in the US who openly disagree with Israel's actions.

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The reason: They cater to their audiences who get to hear what they want to hear.

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chicken and egg here for me metrostars. how do you know its what they want to hear? what if they took a completely different side and decided to start showing the poor palestinians and innocent lebonese, americans love victimisation ( ricki lake all that crap) , then surely theywould be showing - like you said - WHAT THE AMERICANS WANT TO HEAR. its because they have been seeing one side from so long that they WANT or think they want to see those bloody arab terrorists.

I have a broadcast from some australian TV station where they went out on the street and started asking randomers in america where Iran and north korea was - all new north korea and iran were "evil" - yet none could remotely pinpoint where it was. guess where they pointed out (for logical reasons i assume they thought because it was isolated this must be it ) AUSTRALIA. Again you can say they picked out the dumbest, these people looked respectable middle class americans, some suited and booted, it was 5 mins long and it had about 25 people interviewed.......

the question I was asking was more in relation to who owns those media organisations.

dancin pants i completely agree with you about being jewsih doesnt automatically assume israeli, howver being israeli does *generally* ( bar arabs and some 9% christian ) assume jewish. but fair point.

anyhow I think most of us agree that the israelis shouldnt be doing what they are doing, another 55 civillians killed......two more truck loads of humanitarian aid from the Emirates bombed...need I continue?!?!

it just smacks of hypocrisy to me, how the "western" world has turned a blind eye to this.

you do understand paul o'shea - that when you say 'americans' who support this administration's policies and hype up the arab boogeyman, that you are talking about 35 to 40% of the entire u.s. population?? and you found no reply to my response up there as to why hezbollah have attacked? turning a 'blind eye' to one side's activities does not and should not include turning a blind eye to the other. yea lobbing missles onto innocent people's heads is a gas, getting on a bus every day in israel in fear of your life must be great. eh?
the fat dumb yank thing is really getting old

ken i never said the fat dumb yank thing. and i have heard this all the time from americans, oh we dont vote for him we hate him, yet he is still in power?!?! so its at least 51% that think like this. I never take heed of those popularity index thingies, because before the election his support supposedly wained to a low 30% yet he gets re-elected 6 months down the line?!?! whats that all about....

I never said anything about, its what they WANT to hear thats what metrostars said, I was saying maybe if they were being spoon fed all propoganda that the israelis are evil and the spawn of satan crushing the poor arabs, that this may then be what they WANT to hear, as was stated by Metrostars. Its those that you meet out of america that will tell you how they read this and that and how they hate CNN etc, but only because htey have seen different, those that havent are still being spoon fed pro-israeli propoganda.

Finally, on your point about seeing one side, yes I have given a different side of it here, because what I was reading earlier on was very much one sided. It still is however my opinion. I do think that hizbollah were taking the heat off the palestinians, but there is a little more to it than that....