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My reading of it now is he should have been booked for the foul, not a red as he didn't 'deny a goalscoring chance' (if that is the actual wording) and the goal should have stood.
If that's not the wording, he should have been sent off for a professional foul and the goal should have been allowed to stand.
I've absolutely no complaints over the sending off. It was the correct discision for that moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risteard
I do think other refs would have waited, played advantage, given the goal and just booked the player. It was a shame as it was setting up to be a classic with Arsenal despite what people had written all week taking the game to Barca. Had the game finished 1-0 to Arsenal tonight though I feel Barca would have every right to have been very upset with not getting the goal. I think you should always look to give the advantage to the atacking team. I don't think either team nor the game were given that advantage
However, this discision isn't my real issue, it was all the other discisions he got terribly wrong. The Arsenal free kick for the goal being one, Eboue should have been booked. Then there was also the continual fouling & diving from other players that went unpunished including the likes of Ronaldinho.
His booking of Arsenal players while seemingly refusing to book Barca players for similar incidents for a long time was quite obvious. When he actually did book a Barca player he got it completly wrong as he did when he booked Henry.
The overall referee performance I felt was very poor for a major final and affected both teams. :)
'New big ears' off them - last year's winners took out ownership of ol' big ears ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSemi
Perfectly fair result. Blatant red card, even Wenger agreed that it should've been. Arsenal didn't have a hope once they resorted to defending their 18 yard line for 80 minutes. As I said before the game to a few lads, Barca are used to having to break down defensive teams not only at the Camp Nou and will get through and sure enough they did. (Chel$ea, 10 men and 1-0 up at home, same result - another example.)
Again the quality throughout the Barcelona team showed itself tonight. Ronaldinho didn't have to play well. Larsson, Eto'o, Deco and Belletti created and scored. They have the ability to change the game from the bench in Belletti and Larsson. The quality shines through the whole squad. They've won back-to-back league titles and now a double. This isn't a flash-in-the-pan, one-season-wonder Barcelona. There is a certainty they'll be around about it next year.
Can you say the same about Arsenal? The same Arsenal slaughtered for their performances at Bolton and West Ham time and again just months ago, squeeze into fourth in an arguably easier league.
Forca Barca!
1. Could he be done for committing "a professional foul"?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
2. Yep. A ridiculous free-kick wouldn't have entered into their decision.
It's like the Luis Garcia winner against Chel$ea last year, which would you take Cech off and a pen or the dubious goal? There still was 80 minutes and still should've dealt with the lead much better than what they did. Keep the ball like Barcelona did, make Barca work for their opportunities and instead they looked for the 0-1 and time wasting with 35 minutes left (1 minute for a kick out) and they paid for it.
I can forgive the ref for not playing advantage with Lehmann's foul and it was the linesman that flagged for the blatent dive which led to the goal. Other than that nothing the ref did really affected the outcome of the game, that I can remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
I don't think he did commit one, though. I think the fact that Barca scored anyway meant that no clear cut scoring chance was prevented, which I think is effectively the definition of a professional foul.Quote:
Originally Posted by d f x-
Tough luck Karlos, Arsenal gave their all, I guess you know that anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
But there is still space for a mild difference of opinion :)
Not many refs would have done different with Lehmann. I wish he would have let the goal stand but...
The ref didn't loose the game for Arsenal nor win it for Barca.
I found it to be an absorbing game, a worthy enough final. You're right about Henry on the night but the incredibly average player in a Barcelona shirt was Van Bommel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d f x-
I haven't seen anyone question the fairness of the result.
I think Arsenal had little or no choice but to resort to a more defensive play for ahem.....70 minutes. They certainly didn't start like that despite what all the experts said (including the ones on here). They could very easily have been 2-0 up within 5 minutes and taking the game to Barca. They have only themselves to blame for not taking some of the chances they carved open with 10 men against a supposedly superior team.
Even with how they had to play, they still created those 4 or 5 direct chances on goal aginst what looked like a very poor Barca defence. Valdes was the only stand out player in the defence. Nobody can convince me that Barca's performance against a ten man Arsenal has shown them as far superior. Anything but in my eyes. For the 20 minutes that both teams were 11 v 11, the game was even. Barca only used the 10 man advantage effectively with 9 minutes to go. That's a gleaming example of how poor their own performance was by their own standards.
Can't say it enough but congrats to Barca, they have won so they deserve it.
I hope we get to see the two play again 11 v 11 as it was truely shaping up to be a classic.
As for Mr. Henry, if his descision to stay is based on how the Arsenal performance went on the field tonight against a top club then I'm fairly sure he'll be at Emriates when the season kicks off.
Wouldn't be the same without it! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I agree on the referee. That paticular incident he called right I believe. It was the countless others he didn't that were badQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I'd probably plump for the right back 'Oleguer' over Van Bommel (spelling) - truely shocking!
My point though was more on the fact that Henry who is continuously accused of not doing it in the big games totally outshone Ronaldinho. It's ironic that Henry has played so well and Arsenal have lost.
Despite the loss, there are far more positives than negatives from tonight imo. :)
Didn't think Henry played that well tbh. Had a great chance in either half but wouldn't pick him in the top 5 Arsenal players on the night...
I agree on both goal issue but disagree on the ref effect on the game. It's disppointing to see players come through from behind as Marquez did on Henry and not even get booked. The laws state that that type of challenge is a red card - you can't do it. I'm not saying I agree with it but it's the law and you expect the refereee to at the very least do his job as he did honestly and fairly for the Lehmann incident.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
He got so many discisions wrong and that does effect the game in my opinion. :)
On his own upfront with 10 men he caused Barca's defence more problems than they've had in the whole competition. He made Puyol & Marquez look like schoolboys at almost every opportunity. The run with pace and power, down the sideline where he skipped past Marquez and Puyol was majestic :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I may be mistaken but it also loked like he picked up the man of the match award when he collected his medal.
I'm sure it will go un-noticed that I wanted to comment on the disgusting antics of Edmilson after the Lehmann incident. As I said, the descision is not an issue but this reation was awful to witness and a terrible example to set.
Again you'd expect the referree to do his job with regard to what the guidelines is on this type of behaviour. It was particulary unsavoury to witness it in a major final. :o
No-one queried it here, but I can see the headlines and people reminiscing in the future about 'the game Arsenal should've won':)Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
That's not a poor Barca defence..four goals conceded in Europe and previous to last week, 6 clean sheets in a row in the league and Valdes picking up the best keeper award for the second season in a row. Anyway, Arsenal should've kept the ball (they are decent on the ground) and pushed further away from their own penalty box. Eto'o was two yards out by the time he hit the ball and Belletti practically on the goal-line. Let Ronaldinho et al try their intricate work from further out, shooting from further out, but mostly keep the ball. Barca created the chance that changed the game after 20 minutes. Lehmann deserved to go, so Arsenal lost the right to play an even 11 v 11 game (despite ITV's insistance to the contrary).
You see I would see this as how good Barca are. They will get through, be it after one minute against 10 or after 65 minutes. Somewhere and at sometime in the period they will put it together and there's usually no stopping it when it does happen. They need not to hammer down the door for an hour to succeed.Quote:
Barca only used the 10 man advantage effectively with 9 minutes to go. That's a gleaming example of how poor their own performance was by their own standards.
The majority of the team. The bench. The manager. The formation. Barca have all these working. They can win both ugly and spectacularly. Too many people billed this as Henry v. Ronaldinho. Yet neither had any real prolonged impact on the game.
The real reason why Barcelona are so good in my opinion is not because of Ronaldinho, but what is supporting him. He didn't have to play well. Did many think Larsson be the crucial key before the game? Belletti? Eto'o? By their link up play you can see how good and how in-tune they are with each other. Without Ronaldinho anywhere near them.
Ronaldinho is the star player, but is not why Barcelona are doing so well and not why the future looks bright for Barcelona to dominate. Can you say the same about Henry and Arsenal?
In fairness, it's a regular thing in football outside of Ireland and England. I've seen Ronaldinho do it a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
Absolutetly...one look at the average age & the performances the Arsenal players out there tonight confirms what Arsenal's future looks like. The likes of Fabregas, Senderos, Flamini, Eboue and even Walcott are the future of the club. Henry is a prolific goalscorer and an amazing player but I've never subscribed to the one man team concept as others do about Ronaldinho as you highlighted. Before him people talked that same crap about Vieria & Adams, - even questioned it when the likes of Anelka, Overmars & Petit went but everytime Arsenal picked themselves up and achieved something. Despite no silverware this season, the achievements of this young team in Europe has been magnificent and will stand to them in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by d f x-
People shouldn't forget that Arsenal played with 10 men for the majority of this game against arguably one of the best teams in the world. I don't believe Barca would have contolled the game any better in the same situation against Arsenal considering how difficult they made it for themselves tonght for long periods with a man advantage.
I stll don't believe Barca showed any overall superiority over Arsenal tonight other than the fact they won the game and fair play for that. :)
Still doesn't excuse it however. It's been highlighted to referees by FIFA for a very good reason and should be acted on as directed.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by d f x-
Sorry I missed this earlier
Are you really suggesting that they should be giving up 4 or 5 clear chances to 10 men opponents in the process. I can't fathom how that somehow highlights their class. I'm not doubting they can put it together at any time but what we witnessed tonight wasn't what you are suggesting. I understand the concept of being patient but in my coaching manual that doesn't include defending poorly in the process :)
Frank Rijkaard, Barcelona coach
Arsenal did a great job, without any doubt. It wasn't easy and that didn't surprise me. I said beforehand that the Champions League final is special and unique and that you don't have a favourite, just two good teams. Arsenal started well, we less so, but then we began to get back into it. The red card changed the game dramatically and it was a pity in that sense. Arsenal went backwards and started to defend and they still played very well. Víctor Valdés once again played a decisive role. He saved us at a crucial moment with the stop from Thierry Henry. He contributed to the victory and I like that. You need the team, and when each and every part of it does its job you have more strength. All that counts is that FC Barcelona are the 2006 UEFA Champions League winners. The first thing I am thinking of is all our fans and the joy this gives them. We must all be grateful that we can live these moments with Barcelona.
Arsène Wenger, Arsenal manager
The red card was the most important part of the game but we still played well and had two or three good chances to score a second. And when you don't do that, the last 20 minutes are going to be difficult. Congratulations to Barcelona and to my players for a magnificent European season and a great game tonight. When Jens Lehmann got sent off, that left us with 70 minutes to play with ten against eleven, against a team that retains the ball very well. I don't think we could have done much more. I want to thank my players who were absolutely magnificent. They were heroes but they were not rewarded. I will work with them to turn this frustration into success, but they deserve massive credit - as do Barcelona.
Don't forget the amazing tumbling spinning Henry while you're at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL