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Anybody born in Northern Ireland or with family from NI has always had the right to get an Irish passport. The GFA copperfastened that.Quote:
Originally Posted by colster
We could always have picked anybody born in NI but there appears to have beena gentleman's agreement between the 2 football associations. We did pick Alan Kernaghan after NI turned him down but subsequently it is clear that there is no such agreement now.
This is never going to happen. The vast amount of people who go to Windsor park and support Northern Ireland consider themselves British. Most nationalists up the North support the Republic.
Northern Ireland fans use their soccer team to give themselves some identity, an identity which they struggle to assign themselves in everyday life.
Look at the flags at Windsor park-Union Jack, english flag, northern ireland flag (red hand), english flag with red hand and union jack in top corner, IFA flags etc-they dont know what to bring, but supporting NI is something obviously special to these people.
I would like to see a united Ireland team the same way as I would like to see a united Ireland-cant see one happening without the other.
As I say. Mate have been to Windsor Park for ten years supporting NI and can honestly say that the only time Ive seen an England flag is when England play. We are Northern Irish and happy with that that why most carry the NI flag. Very little UJ at the match either these days but certainly no england flags, I have seen England flags at windsor for Linfield games if thats when you saw them at WP..
i dunno, plenty of UJ's and those NI flags with the UJ in the top left corner (what is that by the way?) are put behind goals at both ends. Also English flag with crown in the top left corner.
while were talking-is there a type of person that brings a UJ flag as opposed to a NI flag?
Do you consider yourself British, Northern Irish, or Irish? I.e if someone asked you your nationality what would you say
I myself have only ever brought a NI flag to Windsor park along with the IFA green flag, As for others many bring their local club supporters flags such as Linfield, Glenavon etc and this might explain the english flag present as I know Linfield have one in their crest etc.
As for me I see myself as Northern Irish, but afraid that some peoples dont like to see this term used and would rather force you into a british or Irish box as its much easier then to label someone. With me this is not going to happen. If I could get an NI passport tomorrow I would or when filling in options if NI was on the sheet thats what I would tick but just doesnt happen very often Im afraid.
And the award for most idiotic post of the month goes to.... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
What exactly would an all-island team have to do with distancing ourselves or otherwise from the English ? In fact - what exactly would an all-island team have to do with the English FULL-STOP ??
Did Derry City joining the LOI usher in a whole-new era of closeness between the plucky Irish and the dastardly Sasana ?
So the jist of your arguement for not having a joint all-island team is that the odd English journalist might try to claim us as 'their own' on the infrequent occassions that a Britiash team doesn't qualify for a major tournament and we do. Shock horror - we should declare war immediately ! What a staggeringly ridiculous reason for doing anything....
As requested already - drop the anti-English obsession. Ireland needs to measure itself on its own terms - not in relation to the English. Only then will we have matured as a nation.....
Dassa> thats pretty interesting alright. Would you say there are many NI fans who are of that opinion? and are more people becoming that minded now in the north. There seems to be less UJs than during the 90s for example-but when I see a UJ in Windsor Park I just think-why? I mean you dont even see them at home England games.
I suspect its the hardcore orangeman that would bring a UJ to a NI match. Could be wrong of course :)
YI - it's deeply worrying how horribly wrong you've got all of this. Not only is the basis of your arguement flawed, it's actually the complete opposite of the reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
You're asserting that the fact that NI is part of the UK means that people across the world are confused as to the status of the Republic of Ireland. That is possibly one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on this site. Ever...
The reality is the EXACT OPPOSITE, as you should be well familiar with from living in England. Rather than Irish people being considered British because a small chunk of our country is part of the UK - the reality is that it is the 'identity' of Northern Irish people that is of a confused status, due to the presence of an independent Republic ! When people in London hear my accent, they describe me as 'Irish'. Not Northern Irish, and certainly not British - but IRISH. It was the same when I lived in places like New York, Florida and Holland. It is the same for my Northern Irish protestant friends. It's only within the identity-conscious confines of the political divide in Ireland that people worry about differentiating between the 2 - the rest of the world views the whole population of the island of Ireland , north and south, catholic and protestant, as IRISH. Therefore - the reality is that it is the 'identity' of Northern Irish people that is of a confused status, due to the presence of an independent Republic, and NOT vice-versa.
I can only guess that you're not particularly well travelled if you have the nerve to suggest that people overseas think that the Republic is part of Britain because only 20% of the island of Ireland is in the UK. Would you care to clarify who exactly is it that has these beliefs ? And don't give us the aul 'I once met someone on holiday somewhere who thought that way', as if that would be any form of conclusive proof. As an aside - significant chunks of the world know absolutely feck-all about Ireland (e.g. large parts of Asia), and what little they do know in places like Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia etc often comes purely and solely from football. Which makes your point even more absurd.
When you're stuck in a hole Young Irish, (or should that be Young British ? I'm confused as to what to call you - given British ownership of the 6 counties...) stop digging...
According to the daily Mirror up here. John Dallat MLA has jumped on the AI bandwagon saying we should quit using football for sectarianism up north and create an AI team that everyone can get behind. He doesnt seem to realise that if AI team happens no NI fans I know will support it and the team will become even more one sisded in the community than the NI team is supposed to be now. Hate people who no matter what the IFA do will try to tar it with the old cliche's nice one John.
As for whether I am the norm in terms of NI fans up here I cant be sure but surely if both sides stop allowing them to be boxed into 1 or the other nationality and become proud in the small 6 counties that we share, which has many things to be proud of in, then things not just for sport can move on in this country.
dcfcSteve have you ever been outside your house in London? Possibly not considering this post.
Here's a tip, walk outside and ask 100 English people walking along the street if an Irish from Dublin is also British. A significant proportion of them will say yes. If they don't know that Ireland isn't part of Britain then isn't that a sign a lot of other, non-British people won't know also?
I dunno what your argument regarding people knowing your Irish is all about. I never stated anything otherwise. A large percentage of those people who you claimed said you were Irish will also think you are British and that's my point. Any statement otherwise is bulls**t.
You're an idiot, you missed the point and went off on some silly tangent to try to impress people with how well travelled you are. I've been working abroad on four different continents in 7 countries for 10 years and a general assumption by many people is that all Irish people are also British. This is a fact. They don't distinguish between North and South. The same way as Scottish, Welsh and English people are also considered British. Does this matter to you? Perhaps it does, perhaps it isn't worth a boll**.
Anyway I'm done on the matter as it gets tiresome. If you want a unified Irish team that's fine, I don't and if your ramblings in your posts are anything to go by then I don't at the moment feel I'm on the wrong side of the intellectual superiors. Anyway I'm tired replying to muppets who read an ancient post and reply, then realise there was more up to date posts and write another reply. It gets time consuming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Yes It's time you ducked out. IMO you haven't made one logical or sound contribution to the debate. You resort to personal abuse when confronted with logical or sound argument.
Do you honestly believe that we should stop doing something because of what other nations perceive our nationality to be. What demonstrative effect does that perception have on us as a nation?
YI your -how shall I put it -hypersensetivity to the level of knowledge expressed by people overseas relating to the constitutional and administrative arrangements on this little island and it's not much bigger neighbour is, in equal measure, quaint, hilarious and fcukin' baffling.
The old USSR had a population of nearly 300,000,000. Now ...could you tell from a brief converstion with someone from that region if they were Russian, Ukrainian, Belarussian...? Could you tell where one country ended and the next began?
I'm just making a point that beyond fleeting curiosity -they no more give a fcuk about your administrative arrangments than you do about theirs. m-kay?
YoungBritish - sorry, I keep getting the British and Irish mixed up !! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
You are laughably delusional. As everyone who has responded to you has also pointed out.
I would happily walk out my door and ask 100 people passing if they thought someone from Dublin was British or Irish, as beyond a small number expecting that they were being tricked I'm confident the majority would say 'Irish'.
The beautiful irony is that you yourself appear clueless on this issue. Ireland has NEVER been part of Britain. There's a reason why an 'and' appears in the legal title 'The United Kingdom of Great Britain AND Northern Ireland'
A wee tip for you YI - when everyone you speak to about something tells you you're wrong, sometimes you are.....
sure reform the old union ... f*ck polital borders, different nationalities etc ... lets team up with England, Scotland and Wales ... we'd have a better chance of winning the world cup ;)
what a load of nonsense. Giles & Best wishes are purely based on the idea that we'd have a better team if we joined together. Giles has said these words exactly.
neither have (had) any idea about the practical issues involved. no idea about the fans (in particular the fans who supporter northern ireland - no matter what your opinions of the them are), the associations, the politic issues and fifa's stance on all this.
is it though steve, i work in a multinational company with many many "foreginers" on a daily basis, and only as recently as last week one person asked me where i lived. so i brought them over to the pc ( as i do with many and put up the map of ireland, so they can get a clear understanding of the geographics of IRELAND) and put up a picture and said here, then his next question was:Quote:
YI - it's deeply worrying how horribly wrong you've got all of this. Not only is the basis of your arguement flawed, it's actually the complete opposite of the reality
....You're asserting that the fact that NI is part of the UK means that people across the world are confused as to the status of the Republic of Ireland. That is possibly one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on this site. Ever...
"is that the part of the united kingdon"
i didnt laugh, i didnt get annoyed, he is a nice guy, i was more upset than anything else. i have found this with many many people, a lot of europeans even!!!! this same lad has been over in the uk for a few years too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donal81
Totally Agree
The vast majority of unionists in the north would be adversly objective to any form of unity on this Island be it geographically politically or through Sport
and I think its fair to say that the vast majority of Nortern Ireland fans are unionists. so I dont think it would happen in under the present political dynamic and in reality I think the only way we'll ever see a united Irish team
is if we some day see a united Ireland
IMO anyother view on this is unrealistic wishfull thinking
Quote:
That is possibly one of the most ridiculous statements I've seen on this site. Ever...
oh the irony, the irony, possibly one of the worst as i disproved yours ;)
Here I can't help it yous are still just posting sh**e. The only one that seems to have grasped the gist of the argument so far is Colster and he took about 20 posts to cop it.
Lionel Ritchie you're lucky you're a talented songwriter because again your slating my argument which is fair enough but then trying to justify the slating of it with some of the most insane drivel I've read in a long time. I wasn't asking anyone to guess my accent but if someone did say to me they were from Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia etc I wouldn't for one still refer to them as Soviets or consider them to still be ruled by the USSR or Russia. Maybe you would and you think that's ok which would explain a lot. Anyway those countries haven't been part of the USSR in slightly over a decade while we haven't been ruled by Britain in over eight decades. Slight (enormous) difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
As for dcfcSteve I still don't know what you're talking about. Of course if you ask is someone from Dublin either Irish or British the majority will say Irish. You are only offering them one option. They would also say a person from Cardiff was Welsh if offered the same choice. My point was if they think Irish people are also British. You obviously still haven't quite grasped basic logic yet but are arguing against the logic of my postings.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I also see you got out your history book and yes in the strictest sense of the terms Ireland wasn't considered part of Britain but part of the UK. I'm sure the foreign people I’m referring to would know this anyway as they probably have a copy of the Act of Union from 1801 hanging in their bedrooms. Also I'm sure there are many people up North who'd disagree with your assessment and consider themselves British as they are entitled to do. Are they wrong?
We are gone way off the football.
Paul_o_Shea thanks for the reality check. These people obviously haven’t mixed with any foreigners or alternatively don’t care if they are considered British abroad. I for one don’t like to be considered British but I have no problems with people who don’t mind as is Colster’s argument which is fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dassa
Now there is no need to blatently lie about it :eek:
a vast amount of UJ are clearly visible at windsor for all NI games
You forget that we have BBC NI down and many of us watch the north's games as they are usually on before ours