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at the risk of being hounded out of the forum... is there a case for recalling james mcclean for the november games? manning will be suspended and it doesn't feel like robbie brady will be back on time, though fingers crossed on that front. mcclean does bring that element of leadership and passion that may help inspire the younger players.
i do think though that he is no longer first choice for wrexham.
Yes, I think he's by far our best option for the left side of the park if Brady is not fit. McClean expressed bewilderment at his own forced international retirement and send off match. He'd never turn down a chance to play for Ireland. Who is better right now?
Id rather play Evan Ferguson at left back than recall McClean at this point
What are the realistic options?Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
- Robbie Brady (currently injured)
- Ryan Manning, suspended for game 1 (i hope they call him up for game 2, unlike when they left Molumby out because he was suspended for the first game)
- Callum O'Dowda (currently injured, called up to the most recent squad)
- Josh Honahan (called up to most recent squad to replace O'Dowda and ruled out with injury)
- Will Ferry called up to most recent squad (when Honahan was ruled out)
- Liam Scales, really not a left back and even less a wing back
- Dara O'Shea, same as scales
- Matt Doherty, naturally a right back but played at left back for us against Hungary
- James McClean, retired in 2023
- Jon Gallagher, we never call up lads from the MLS but comfortable on either side and just another season playing well in the US
League 1 options: Sean Roughan, Joel Bagan, Tayo Adaramola
If I was to bet on it right now Id guess that Doherty will play left backQuote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
It's the very opposite of a quick fix. It's taking a long view and looking for players who might be able to get up to speed with international football in a few years time and have a good 8-10 years beyond that if given the opportunity to play now.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Had we taken this approach 2 or 3 years ago we might have an option at left back for the Portugal game who now has 4 or 5 caps. Assuming Brady won't be fit we're now forced into a position where there's no option other than giving someone their debut.
There are 4 Irish left backs playing senior football this season
Joel Bagan: Played the most football of anyone available. Played 11 games and first choice for Cardiff who are doing well at the top end of League 1.
Tayo Adaramola: Played fewer game but first choice for Leyton Orient who are mid-table in League 1.
Corrie Ndaba: Played far less football than the others, but has had a few sub appearances in Serie A. Also got through 90 minutes against AC Milan in an Italian Cup match.
Sean Roughan: Was playing regularly for Huddersfield in League 1, but has been on the bench for the last few matches.
Failing that it's bringing James McClean back, or attempt to slam a round peg into a square hole. A 36 year old McClean is as big a gamble as giving a kid their debut so I see no value in that. And I never want to see Matt Doherty in an Ireland shirt again.
Ndaba is the least worst option for me. That single game aginst Milan gives him the edge. But this is a ridiculous situation to find ourselves in.
This also highlights how fcuking brain dead it was of Manning to get the yellow card in a stupid situation. The player had turned him on the halfway line, there was loads of cover and he was going nowhere. It was idiotic from Manning
The pattern of callups would suggest that Will Ferry may be the next cab off the rank if Brady, Manning and O'Dowda are all unavailable. It might depend whether he impressed in camp in the last week, Honohan may also be seen as an option if fit. I don't think Doherty can play wing back to international standard now, he's a barely passable right sided centre back these days.
I agree that he shouldnt play, but Id bet that he willQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
If I looked up "what the f*ck is wrong with us" in a dictionary, pretty sure it would just be a picture of Doherty.
It's not though. And that's as someone who has called on Manning to be be capped more because we had a clear need for succession planning at let-back. He's been one of our best players lately - not saying much, granted.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
But the difference between Manning and Adaramola/Roughan/Ndaba is - he was clearly half-decent. He was playing for a yo-yo side between Championship and Premier. The others, as you've pointed out, aren't great.
Had we capped Roughan three years ago, not much would have changed. Instead of being a fullback not up to it, he'd be a 10-time fullback not up to it.
I've no problems throwing these guys in for a cap to see what happens. I do have a problem with it getting touted as a previously successful policy though. It's not. You develop at club level, not at international level. If you throw kids in at international level like it was a club friendly, you'll get nowhere.
Which amazingly enough is where we are
Ipse dixit.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Northern Ireland do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
They've a smaller pool of players, a much weaker domestic league, and fewer resources in every other way.
They capped Galbraith in 2019 as an 18 year old. Ironically enough he got his first cap in a friendly against Luxembourg. Since then he's made it to the dizzy heights of Swansea City, but 4 months ago he was a Leyton Orient player. He has 11 caps
After the other night Florian Wirtz hopes never to see him again. I imagine the office at Southampton have spent a good bit of this week organising passes for scouts from all over Europe for their game against Swansea on Saturday.
Based on the way we pick squads and/or teams (the status quo you suggest should continue), it's doubtful he would ever have been picked by us
had he been born on the other side of the Antrim Road in Glengormley to a family who like Abba and keep their toaster on the counter.
And it's not like this is a theoretical argument. There are other Irish players tied to the FAI who we can compare his treatment to. Ethan Galbraith is 24 years old. So are Jason Knight and Luca Connell.
Jason Knight made his debut in 2020, a year later than Galbraith. He now has 41 international caps for Ireland. That's more than John Sheridan or Mark Lawrenson. Alan Browne has picked up 37 caps since his debut in 2017.
Luca Connell is still waiting for his first cap.
The 2 guys who play in his position, and who have picked up a combine total of 78 international caps, have as many appearances in the Premier League between them as I do on my own. And can you or anyone else honestly say that you are convinced Jason Knight is a better player than Luca Connell? Or can you tell me the benefit of Jason Knight having 41 caps at this age that we would have missed out on if he only had 30?
We are slow to bring young players into our squad, we don't experiment nearly enough, and the squad is far to hard to difficult to play your way out of once you have become established as one of the usual suspects. Wes Hoolahan turned 30 years old with 2 caps, and we've learned nothing from the mistakes made with him by Staunton, Trapattoni and O'Neill.
But you've shown no causation there.
Would Luca Connell have 40 caps if we'd capped him 5/6 years ago?
Jason Knight is playing a division above Connell, and barring a spell at a bankrupt Bolton team which had to field the teenagers and in doing so lost almost every one of their games Connell has never played at Championship level, whereas Knight is well established there with 200+ games under his belt. There's a reason for that - and yeah, I'm convinced Knight is a better player than Connell.
We're not slow to bring young players into our squad, as the current decade has shown. We've capped players way before their time (mostly through necessity) - some have gone on to do alright (Parrott), some haven't (Armstrong, Moran), and some are the players you now want to get rid of to make way for new great white hopes (Idah, Smallbone).
And I've no problems with anyone getting capped (despite your suggestions) - I just don't believe it makes any real impact on their development. Again, club and international are different things. Clubs can afford to throw a kid in in a friendly and see how he goes. National teams should do that if we're desperate (like Kenny did) or if the player is really promising (like the guy playing for Rosenborg at 15 and starring for them at 16)
I think ultimately when your point is based on equating Nypan with Roughan/Adaramola/Ndaba, then it has to fall on that basis along.
HH has given competitive minutes to 24 players so far in the WC qualification campaign (4 games) and probably has named 40+ unique players in his squads since taking the job. There’s a need to test players and consider those outside the squad, but the sheer number of players used in the past year or so demonstrates we are doing that – and then some. Throwing more and more players at the problem is not the solution if we are not able to maximise/ get the very best out of the players we are using.
*screams into pillow*Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Nobody is saying Connell should have had 40 caps. I’m saying that we have missed low consequence opportunities to give him and others like him half a dozen each.
Anyway.
Next up we have a vital qualifier against one of the best sides in Europe. People are talking up the idea of recalling James McClean at 36 because we don’t have a single recognised left back available. If we fail to get something from the game it’s going to be over a decade since we qualified for a major tournament despite the qualification process for the Euros being made far easier for us.
If this isn’t desperation, what is?
It's not just the numbers. It's the profile of players who get given their debut, and the absence of succession planning.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
There are exceptions who take to it like a duck to water, but I’ve always felt it takes most players until somewhere around their 10th cap before they get to grips with international football. If someone is in their late 20s when they make their debut, chances are they will already be in the mouth of their 30s by the time they getting close to having double figures of caps
Far too often we give players a debut in their late 20s when they are already at their ceiling, at the expense of younger talent who still have the potential to do more with their career. I'd much sooner take a punt on a 21 year old playing in League One or Premier League 2 than a 27 year old who's plateaued as a journeyman Championship footballer.
Although there’s no recent example I can call to mind of us playing someone from a League One club, I’d say İstanbul Başakşehir is probably a similar standard to a club at the top end of League One. Festy was among our best players in the last round of games. He’s into double figures of caps now and despite where he plays you can see he’s growing in confidence and starting to look the part as an international footballer.
HH has given minutes to 39 players in total. They are…
Adam Idah, Alan Browne, Andrew Omobamidele, Andy Moran, Callum O'Dowda, Callum Robinson, Caoimhin Kelleher, Chiedozie Ogbene, Dara O'Shea, Evan Ferguson, Festy Ebosele, Finn Azaz, Jack Taylor, Jake O'Brien, Jamie McGrath, Jason Knight, Jayson Molumby, Jimmy Dunne, John Egan, John Patrick Finn, Josh Cullen, Kasey McAteer, Killian Phillips, Liam Scales, Mark McGuinness, Mark Sykes, Matt Doherty, Max O'Leary, Mikey Johnston, Nathan Collins, Robbie Brady, Rocco Vata, Ryan Manning, Sammie Szmodics, Séamus Coleman, Tom Cannon, Troy Parrott, Will Smallbone
When compared to the list of names used by Stephen Kenny in his final season (a team which failed miserably), there’s only been 9 new faces added in the 18 months HH has been in the job
- Jimmy Dunne (27)
- John Patrick Finn (22)
- Kasey McAteer (23)
- Killian Phillips (23)
- Mark McGuinness (24)
- Mark Sykes (28)
- Max O'Leary (29)
- Rocco Vata (20)
- Sammie Szmodics (30)
I place very little blame for that of HH tbh. He didn’t get a run of friendly games to prepare a fresh squad. John O’Shea was running the show during those games, and rather than acting in the long term interest of Irish football he called up the most experienced squad he could in a vain effort to get himself the job.
Of the guys who have been brought in I’m extremely pleased to see Rocco Vata in there. Szmodics was older, but I agree there was no option other than giving him a run. He was as hot as a $2 pistol during that 23/24 season.
But as much as I like to see a guy from Belfast getting a game, it made very little sense to me that Mark Sykes got that chance. There were other much younger midfielders who were already playing at a similar level to him, but who had a much higher potential ceiling.
Jimmy Dunne finally got his debut 7 years after his first call up. Unfortunately it’s another example of a player who we should be succession planning for by the time he'll have those 10 or 12 caps and is starting to look comfortable playing international football. One would assume that as Jake O’Brien fills out he will end up as a central defender, and that eventually Festy will drop back to fullback. I’d say that in a couple of years time our first choice back 4 is likely to be
Festy – O’Brien – Collins – Manning
Things actually look pretty secure in goal and central defence. Sadly Seamus Coleman will retire. Hopefully Matt Doherty has either already had that choice made for him, or he isn’t available because he’s been blasted into outer space.
I would presume Jimmy Dunne will still be around as understudy for Festy at right back in 2 years time. But at some point in the future that position may give us the sort of problems we now have at left back for the next round of games. We will have much less cover there in the future.
The sort of long term planning I would like to see would involve trying to get out ahead of the issue and start looking now for a young right back or 2 who might become regular squad members in time. Guys who would do no more for now than come on for a couple of 10 minute spells towards the end of a less significant match, but start building their experience.
And that’s the philosophy I think we should follow. It’s not about carpet bombing the squad with young players. We don’t need to do this in goal or central defence. We’re good for attacking midfielders. It is about strategically trying to develop talent in a few key positions where it’s reasonably foreseeable that we might have a bit of trouble in the future. We should have done this with a couple of left backs over the last 2 years. It was very obvious that McClean, Brady and Enda Stevens were all coming to the end of their careers at the same time. We didn’t address the issue and we’ve totally shafted ourselves ahead of this Portugal game.