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I still blame McCarthy all these years later. He knew what he was doing when he called Keane out in front of everyone. Over the years I've accepted more and more that Keane had plenty of blame too but I still think it could have been sorted enough to get through the World Cup.
Going to Saipan to start with was an absolute shambles, and probably a corrupt decision. It made no sense apart from someone somewhere making money off it.
My college girlfriend broke up with me and later on that day I heard the news that Keane was sent home.
That was a bad day!
I remember saying if I could only get one back I’d take Keano! Ha ha!
Fancy a nip round the back of the sheds Razor. that's gorgeous!Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Keane would have found another excuse. He gave the IT interview after allegedly changing his mind which is either weirdly inconsistent, or he was still intent on leaving or creating further disruption. I don’t see anything wrong in McCarthy calling a meeting of the entire squad. Keane owed all of them an explanation and an assurance that he was with them. However bad the facilities were, it’s no excuse for his behaviour. The idea that this somehow reflects his superior level of professionalism is an insult to his team mates many of whom consistently exhibited higher standards of professionalism throughout their careers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Some have always felt that McCarthy shouldn't have targeted Keane in a team meeting, but he'd already had several private meetings with the man on various issues over the previous few days, and then when it looked like they might just get out of Saipan Keane went public with his criticisms of the team. Having done than I really don't think he can legitimately claim it was out of order for McCarthy to press him on the topic in front of others. The various accounts of Keane's rant really make it sound like something he'd had at the back of his mind for a long time, so part of me has always felt he was only too delighted for McCarthy to give him the opportunity to explode. Looking at the manner in which Keane jumped from "I'm going/I'm staying" over the previous few days, it's doubtful he would have lasted the World Cup.
Managers job is to get the best players on the pitch to give you the best chance of winning.
McCarthy obviously didn't prepare properly (having one of his team check out the facilities) or the facilities would have been up to scratch.
This is done routinely by any competent management team going to a finals.
Keane may be a tosser but he had reason to complain and shouldn't have had any reason if the Management team had done their job.......and i'm not a United fan :)
McCarthy .....guilty of poor preparation and not getting the best team on the pitch by confronting Keane when he should have said "Roy is right the conditions are ****".
.
Keane .....guilty of being a whingy fecker.
What criticisms of the team do you remember? The interview he gave was harmless enough, even funny at times and McCarthy blew it out of all proportion. They could have put it to bed over a cup of tea and moved on. Instead McCarthy tried to dress down his captain in front of the team. It was a really bizarre decision for me. Obviously stuff had been building and they don't seem to have ever seen eye to eye but again, it's one of the worst displays of man mgmt I can remember. If Keane hadn't been completely committed on the field it might be different but he was. Accusing him of faking injuries and calling him out in front of people like that was just the worst way to handle the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
You can read the interview here.
Nothing in there attacking the team at all. He mentions the bust up with Kelly that they were laughing about together afterwards. He mentions something Quinn said previously. Nothing else about any players or the team in general. Nothing even about McCarthy himself really. The FAI are the main target if anyone is. And the media over the coverage he got for missing Quinn's testimonial. McCarthy took it personally though which says more about McCarthy than Keane to me. Both flawed but one was there to manage, flaws and all.
I'd forgotten this happened afterwards as well - https://www.theguardian.com/football...ll2002.sport22
Mick went on to complain about the training facilities in Korea, the bags wouldn't fit on the bus and the players ended up unhappy that they were demoted to economy from their "Roy class" business seats for flights when he wasn't around to demand proper standards.
What a ****show it all was.
Glad I'm completely over it now. Just water off a ducks back it is. I'm fine. In no way seething still. At all like.
Lets not let the journalists away with things here either, particularly that pervy, greasy, cheesy, nasty, wretched leech who in later years disgraced himself, not to mention Tom Humphries :-)
When you think of the absolute decency (or maybe the absolute terror) amongst the journos a decade/generation earlier covering big Paul's many misdemeanors, would it have killed them knowing the **** it would cause to leave it alone for a couple of days?
And the Times of all papers - the one (honorable mention to dear Emmet Malone) who did and continues to do fleck all for irish football - to be the party-poopers.
Great thing about the Keane affair was that it deflected from Zahovic leaving the Slovenian camp for similar reasons. If we were reliant on Keane - we weren't as much - then Slovenia absolutely were reliant on zany Zlatko.
Yeah fair enough. I THINK it was a pre-arranged interview.....but in general the media around Keane (the testimonial etc) played a big part in it all. Should have been given a few days to cool down, sat down with Mick for a pint/cup of tea and then lifted the World Cup trophy. Instead, it's 20 years later and I'm furiously refreshing an internet forum looking for a fight about a footballer not playing in a football tournament because there was a lack of footballs provided for the footballing preparation for the football.
I don't agree with your assessment of that interview - he had a swipe at pretty much everyone over the course of that! The manager, the keepers, the other players, the media, the association etc. Not that there wasn't any truth in much of it, but if ever an opinion needed to be held over until after a tournament that was the time. Especially after the staying/leaving drama the day before, he should have just put his head down at that point, retired after the tournament and saved it all for the book.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Reading it again 20 years on just reinforces my view that he didn't want to be there and if they had somehow made it to Japan he'd have just walked out over something else anyway.
Interesting comment at the end about becoming a manager one day - nobody would want to play for me but we'd have great training facilities. He thought he was joking but it preempted his failed management career pretty well.
McCarthy, by his own account, DID go to Saipan to check the island out.
The idea was to do some light training, acclimatise to the heat and let the lads have a few pints one of the nights cos when they got to Japan/Korea it would be down to business.
Check out his live interview with Eamon Dunphy
https://youtu.be/F0Sn5ggFKfQ
What would you pick out as examples of swipes? I read a captain giving his honest opinions in a very light tone and as you say most of it was accurate. It's not as if the team didn't know how he felt already so for anyone to take any of that personally is very strange.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
He even admits he's been a bit of a weapon to soften anything that could be taken the wrong way.
"I come off the worst, no matter what! Eventually the penny has to drop but you need to put the penny in. I'm learning but I'm only human. These things happen for a reason. You have to learn from these things, the bad things. Without a doubt. I think the best has still to come. I've made mistakes. I'm better for the mistakes. Introduce me to somebody who hasn't made mistakes and I'll shake his hand. Things happen for a reason, I'm sure the man upstairs is guiding me along the way, putting a few obstacles in the way but I feel very happy with life. I do. I just don't want us going home saying 'if only we'd prepared better'."
Wasn't it Ray Treacy who did the scouring for the training camp and settled on Saipan?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
I mean the whole thing nearly feels like a dig at them, but there's a few quotes in particular - things that you just can't say while you're in camp with your teammates, especially just a week out from the world cup. If he comes off worst it's because of the things he says to people, or about them...Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
"I've come over here to do well and I want people around me to want to do well. If I feel we're not all wanting the same things, there's no point."
"Some people accept it easier. Maybe that's why some of our players are playing where they are."
"I'm here for myself and the people of Ireland and my family. Sod everybody else."
"I told Mick I had enough. Basically that was it. We've had discussions already the other night about training facilities. You've got to prepare properly is my attitude..."
Whatever about the Saipan and Keane stuff, Ive also thought it was completely glossed over of how bad a job McCarthy did in that World Cup. We did well in spite of him because we had brilliant players like Robbie and Duffer.
He constantly picked an out of form Ian Harte, who if I recall correctly was subbed off in almost every game. He even allowed Harte to take a pen when his confidence was completely destroyed. There was also a presser where someone called McCarthy out on it and asked something along the lines of "What do you say to those who have concerns about Hartes lack of form and confidence", to which McCarthy replied "Tell them to Bo11ocks" or something like that.
He constantly picked Duff out of position up front where he was far less effective than on the wing, again in every game that had to be adjusted at some point.
My favorite one though was that he admitted that he didnt realize that Spain were down to 10 men for the 2nd half of extra time.
For years before that World Cup I didnt rate him, and its annoyed me ever since that hes held up at this great manager who did well for us in the World Cup. He was carried by great players with Ireland.
The first and last are harmless for me..nothing that hadn't been discussed and more of a clarification on the context of any arguments. The middle two are borderline but he doesn't name names and if you're a professional footballer you should be well able to deal with an indirect call out from your captain. Or a direct one in person which I'm sure they all got as well. The whole time of the interview is "yeah we had an argument, I got fed up, yeah I'm a hothead but heres the context, it's put to bed now, we move on".
I wouldn't think any player read that in the morning and took it too badly. Mick clearly did but he wasn't even being blamed in the article for the situation.
I'd agree fully with this take if Saipan (or something of similar "quality") had been the intended squad camp for the duration of the tournament. But, as someone else pointed out, it wasnt. It was a pitstop for a few days where the squad could relax, bond and do some light physical and tactical work. I think thats where that side of the argument falls down.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
There's no question Mick made some mistakes at the tournament alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Firstly he let McAteer trick him into thinking he was fit for the opening game. He was a waste of a jersey for 45 minutes before he was taken off.
Harte was carrying an injury the whole tournament. The problem was we didn't have any other decent left backs in the squad. Staunton was too old and slow to play left full at that stage and Kilbane was an out and out midfielder, he only played in defence later in his career. So I'm not sure if that was a mistake or we just had no other option. I can't even think of any other good Irish left backs from that time that were left out of the squad, although maybe I'm forgetting someone.
I think Duff up front was an OK call, Quinn couldn't really play the full 90 by then so using Duff that way allowed Quinn to come on fresh later in the game. The next best option was probably Morrison, but when it came to it against Spain he brought on Connolly instead, who I never thought was international quality other than against the minnows. I think he should have brought on Morrison there.
And absolutely no excuses for not recognising Spain were down to 10 in extra time, as bad a blunder as I can remember from an Irish manager (if you exclude Staunton's entire time as manager!)