WUFC to fold

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Originally Posted by ColinR

I would reckon UCD would actually do quite well this year - decent crowds from derbies etc, and low wages plus scholarship etc.

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Our Dublin game crowds are a good bit down actually - Pat's last week was the worst this season. Our non-Dublin gates are up though! Strange but true.

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Originally Posted by ColinR

You just don't want a manager to come in and splash the cash for wages, oh wait you used to have one ;)

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:p

Ah Greg O'Dowd - Doolin's first signing and a taste of things to come! :eek:

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

According to the Revenue there are at lest 16/17 clubs in serious trouble and it could be up to 20. The only clubs that are definitely safe are Rovers and Derry.

Harps, Galway, Kilkenny and Sligo are probably alright but rest assured the Revenue are really píssed off and are out for blood. The ignorant bliss that Shels fans are living in is about to be shattered. Reality is just around the corner.

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With respect, WAR, unless you actually provide some evidence of this, that statement is just tabloid rumour-mongering. You've provided no hard evidence to back up your claim, despite being asked for some. What you say may well be spot on, but equally it could be idle gossip. I think that until some sort of actual evidence or reference is given, not much weight should be attached to this claim.

That's not to say eL clubs aren't in trouble - clearly some are - but if we're going to discuss the issue, facts not gossip should be used.

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Originally Posted by Sonic

What sort of a crowd of b@stards have we got running this league.ffs a SUPPOSEDLY IMPORTANT PART of the uefa licening thing was finance so how may I ask did waterford and indeed Rovers get theirs so handy.The fcuker actually had barefaced cheek to hold up our licence and all the while keeping LTFC and its fans worried, when behind the scenes at WUFC and SRFC this was going on.What is their problem with us. Did they not think we were gud for this league or what. :rolleyes: Now Im not going to get all high and mighty over this cause i dont know anything about LTFCs finance but from club officials they seem to be happy enuf so what the fcuk was the fais problems.

At the end of the day the buck stops with the fai.

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Actually, you held up your own license by not having the correct documentation and as you say, you know nothing about Longford's finances.

And as for the buck stopping with the FAI, you appear to have passed it back to them, so its a bit rich to stop it now. The clubs are responsible for compliance and the FAI are responsible for monitoring compliance through through the licensing process.

Anyway I fail to see how Longford's delay in getting a license is related to Waterford going down the pan, or did you just feel the need to vent?

:confused:

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

The clubs are responsible for compliance and the FAI are responsible for monitoring compliance through through the licensing process.

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Isn't it the eL, not the FAI, who are responsible for the league (and the related items like licencing)?

Can I just clarify that neither myself nor WAR, nor I'm sure WWS, were getting "high and mighty" and having a go at Shels. The point we were trying to make is that, although we may have been dealt with in a highly public manner, Rovers is by no means the only club that was run in a highly irresponsible manner. The fact of the matter is that the Revenue Commissioners are now investigating the majority of EL clubs for unpaid tax. The sooner EL fans wake up and smell the coffee about how are league is run the better because if someone doesn't put rules on clubs soon the entire league is going to implode.

I don't think this is getting off topic at all because this is a thread about a club getting into serious financial difficulty and having no way to get out of it. I have no idea about the circumstances surrounding WUFC - for all I know the club was run brilliantly and is only bankrupt due to bad luck, maybe the chairman didn't salute after seeing a magpie or something - but I for one am sick of not a season going by without at least one club facing liquidation.

Too many people confuse the actions of Branvard with SRFC. The supporters never supported the actions of Branvard and constantly argued against the reckless trading of the Branvard directors. In fact, we withdrew funding from the club until the Branvard directors stopped the madness. Thankfully, and quite remarkably, the supporters have managed to rescue SRFC from the criminal ways of Branvard. But other supporters should be looking at what happened at Rovers and, instead of bitching and sprouting untruths about the 400 Club evading tax, maybe start thinking closer to home. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

I think it would be a loss if the league lost Waterford but its just another story of overspending. Most clubs are spending what they have not got and the clubs that are not in the premier say Harps, Pats, Rovers and Waterford are down the bottom and will probably stay there. The FAI have ignored this for years, Delaney does not have the bottle for it. I don't know why the public outrage over Rovers and their debts, Drogheda did the exact same a few years back, think they gave the revenue €50k for 10 years liability.

However while I blame the FAI in part its mainly the clubs fault. Chairmen etc know how much is coming in and out but yet continue. This league cannot afford pro football in its current guise. Maybe with FAI help, government help, a merged league with the North etc it may be possible, right now its not.

Lastly the weird thing is that most fans know it, apart from Shels :D , that we cannot afford what we have and would rather cut back. Shame the people running the league cannot see this. Rovers may be the worst horror story but there are more to come I have no doubt :(

The FAI are fine and quick to give loan to Pats to pay their wages.......they should help out Waterford.


If i was a fan i'd be questioning where the 100 k sterling from Murphys transfer went........and i'd break his doors down

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

With respect, WAR, unless you actually provide some evidence of this, that statement is just tabloid rumour-mongering. You've provided no hard evidence to back up your claim, despite being asked for some. What you say may well be spot on, but equally it could be idle gossip. I think that until some sort of actual evidence or reference is given, not much weight should be attached to this claim.

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Since when did the internet and hard evidence have any relationship whatsover? ;)

Seriously I take your point but I'm only relaying what I know and as for hard evidence, there's no way any of it goes near the internet. I may be a loud mouth but I'm smart enough to know what to keep to myself.

There is serious trouble coming down the line, that's a fact. You would only have had to hear what the Revenue had to say in public last Friday to know that. What I'm hearing in private is much stronger but that's where it's staying - in private.

KOH

Only a fool, or someone with something to hide will come out and deny that tax evasion is going on in some clubs. Most people, myself included, aren't close enough to state it as fact. But the dogs on the street are rarely wrong.

It all depends whether the Revenue have the bottle to pursue it and that will be dependent on a number of factors such as their current workload, how rife they think it is and crucially if they think they can prove it etc.

There's lot of things the Revenue "know" are going on but they choose not to pursue. I'm dubious whether they have the bottle to go the full hog and appoint investigators etc for what may be a limited financial benefit. Chasing Ansbacher account holders and single premium life policyholders is much more lucrative. Not to mention that this is very difficult to prove, you almost need a tout or an insider to admit its going on.

The Revenue may well be rattling the trees in the hope that magically the tax returns from EL clubs will increase over the next few months.

Lads any help for us would be greatly appreciated. We need all the help we can get to save the Club. We are in such a grave situation, its as simple as that. Any advice especially from Rovers fans bring it on. My email address is partizan_1977@hotmail.com

All things WUFC is discussed on our forum at www.btid.net

Join now and get the ideas flowing. We plan to hold a public meeting shortly with the view to setting up a supporters trust.

To Xlex, put it to you this way, if we had won the Cup, well we wouldnt be in this situation.

Get on the btid board and give us a hand. We badly need asistance, time is running out. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Partizan

To Xlex, put it to you this way, if we had won the Cup, well we wouldn't be in this situation.

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How? How much is it worth to qualify for Europe and play a Welsh team? Is it E60 or E70k teams competing in Europe get? Bugger all gate receipts and TV money, most of which will go on getting to Wales anyway. An Eastern European draw and you won't make much money out of that either. FAI Cup prize money was feck all last year. Overall, you're surely talking less than you got for Daryl Murphy. If that didn't keep you afloat, how would winning the Cup have? :confused:

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Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Seriously I take your point but I'm only relaying what I know and as for hard evidence, there's no way any of it goes near the internet. I may be a loud mouth but I'm smart enough to know what to keep to myself.

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Meh...fair enough. So what you're saying is that you're naughty relaying confidential information to us? ;)

Pineapple,

if we had won the Cup it would have consolidated our position and attracted investors and fans to come back on board. Simple as that, we had more to lose than Longford.

There's not much difference - investor-wise - between reaching the Cup final and winning it though, let's be honest. There were what - 3000 Waterford fans? - at the Cup final. Most of them now don't go to league games. They probably wouldn't be gong now if yez had've won either. That's their nature.

Investors want exposure. Playing Carmarthen isn't exposure. Playing in the Cup final is. Yez got that. Winning the game wouldn't have changed that.

In any case, the Cup final was at the end of last season. It was after that that yez started waving sily money to Doyle, Finn and the others who were signed. The club made £100k profit over and above its budget in selling Murphy and yet is still in serious trouble. I honestly don't see how a Cup final win would have been a panacea for all that.

I want Waterford to survive obviously - just think that there's more to this than meets the eye.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

There's lot of things the Revenue "know" are going on but they choose not to pursue. I'm dubious whether they have the bottle to go the full hog and appoint investigators etc for what may be a limited financial benefit. Chasing Ansbacher account holders and single premium life policyholders is much more lucrative. Not to mention that this is very difficult to prove, you almost need a tout or an insider to admit its going on.

The Revenue may well be rattling the trees in the hope that magically the tax returns from EL clubs will increase over the next few months.

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Maybe they do but I'm sure theres a lot they don't know either. The Revenue don't need bottle to do anything. They don't need any insider to prove anything, it's not the mafia there after. If they think there's serious wrong doing then they can just come in and use whatever resources they have to get to the bottom of it. I think a saving grace with Rovers was maybe they came clean with them and it showed that they owed even more than they thought. Honest enough, but it could open a can of worms (probably already has) with the Revenue and the rest of the league. If they want to and they pretty much can get to the bones of whats going on then its could be a rough ride for a lot of clubs

It'll be an absolute tragedy and loss to the League if Waterford go to the wall.

Hope the club somehow manage to get through this and consolidate

Sadly, in a situation like this, with a club in deep financial trouble, etc. - the good guys never win.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

In any case, the Cup final was at the end of last season. It was after that that yez started waving sily money to Doyle, Finn and the others who were signed. The club made £100k profit over and above its budget in selling Murphy and yet is still in serious trouble.

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How often does it have to spelled to you. We have the second lowest turn over in the Premier and had that even before we started slashing the wage bill. It cost 9k to run the Club every week which again is pretty low. We didnt start waving silly money. We have a First Division budget which is why we signed First Division players. Rennie signed the players on a silly contract. If the manager goes, they go.

The Board gambled that the 3000 that turned up for the Cup Final would stick with us for upcoming season. We have no large debts to speak of. All the money from Murphy went to pay off the ex-Directors of the PLC who were owed money, namely our ex-Chairman Ger O'Brien who has gotten us in the mess.

Finally I do believe as many in Waterford that had we won the Cup, the Club would have turned the corner and gone onto to build on that.

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Originally Posted by Partizan

The Board gambled that the 3000 that turned up for the Cup Final would stick with us for upcoming season.

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How could you gamble on having attendences higher than anyone but Cork? :confused:

Well best of luck Partizan, Have a liking for WUFC, even more so since Reynolds is out of there now.


would love a 400 trust in Longford and hope that many clubs get these trusts of the ground.

Winning the cup may only have been a stay of execution for you... Who knows it may have saved our bacon too....

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Originally Posted by joeraki

Maybe they do but I'm sure theres a lot they don't know either. The Revenue don't need bottle to do anything. They don't need any insider to prove anything, it's not the mafia there after. If they think there's serious wrong doing then they can just come in and use whatever resources they have to get to the bottom of it.

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You need some kind of a basis for revising a tax assessment. By their nature cash payments are bloody hard to prove as they don't go through the books!

Ask every taxi driver, hairdresser and other cash-based businesses....

I've no idea how serious the Revenue will take this as I don't work for them. But history says not very seriously at all. Here's hoping.

Even if we had 1500 fans regularly turning up, we'd scrape by. Less than 1500 total between the two home games v UCD and Bray. As for businesses in Waterford, yes there are loads, but none of them want to invest. We had no shirt sponsor for the first few weeks of this season. Businesses wouldn't sponsor us recently because "all their money was tied up in the Tall Ships". The Tall Ships have sailed away and our club may be going with them.

I don't think we spent that heavily. We obviously budgetted for decent crowds and the Daryl Murphy transfer was on the horizon. Then our chairman left, took his money and hasn't been replaced by a new investor. Expenses have been cut, but contracts mean we can't reduce wages or get rid of some players. There just isn't any money to meet even the reduced weekly expenses.

Hopefully it isnt true. But the best of luck to all in WUFC in keeping their great club alive.