Shamrock Rovers V Dundalk (Presidents cup)

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Originally Posted by Sonny

Entertaining enough game without a massive amount of chances or standout performances really. I thought Gannon did very well and Leahy really struggled to deal with him. Shields was decent in patches. Jurkovskis looked lively as well but his decision making in the final third was poor and end product was lacking. McCann looked very comfortable on the ball, but Gary O'Neill has to start at 6 for me. His energy was badly missed in there especially with McEneff gone. It's gonna take time to work out that midfield setup after it kinda picked itself last year.

The ref was awful throughout, and the sending off was harsh enough even if it was a bit of a bizarre lunge. Either way it killed the game, and Rovers struggled to break down the 10 sitting in. I actually think we would have been more likely to score against 11 tbh, but it will be interesting to see if we can replace Jack's creativity especially when teams sit in a low block. Pat's will be an interesting challenge next week because they successfully parked the bus against us twice last season.

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Think that’s a good sum up of the game. I thought Gannon did well particularly in the first half and Leahy struggled and misplaced a few passes. I think Dummigan will start as first choice in that position in the league. The sending off definitely killed the game although there will have been a lot to take from that period. Dundalk did quite well keeping Rovers at arms length and I think Rovers probably should’ve mixed things up a bit. The insistence on trying to pass their way into Dundalk’s box was fine but if they had have put a few crosses in it may have tested our keeper and defence.
While the game was certainly edgy I think the ref was too eager in dishing out the yellow cards but that’s par for the course for this league.
Both sides had players out that will make a difference so it’ll be interesting to see how different the game is in the league in a couple of weeks.

Bradley needs to decide on how he wants the midfield to look like.
In my honest opinion, Finn shouldn't be in midfield anymore as better players are there, and Burke and Mandriou can't play together in the same team. Gary O'Neill simply has to start every game if he's fit.
I'd have
Mannus
Gannon Scales Pico Kavo
Watts McCann O'Neill Farrugia
Mandriou/Burke
Greene
Bar the dundalk and maybe boez game, Rovers are going to face blanket defences so pace & guile are needed imo.

It's a long season and injuries play their part, but I'd hope Bradley has a starting 11 more or less in his head

Is Farrugia any good? Seemed to be a lot of hype when he was at UCD, but hasnt seem to grab a consistant starting place.

Mandriou/Burke were both probably Rovers worst players yesterday. Burkes shooting was woeful, summed up by his penalty.

Some of McCanns touches were great, some great passing to Gaffney running the channels.

21 international, so he can't be that bad, but he does seem to have hamstrings made of china

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Originally Posted by Calcio Jack

A reasoned reflective well thought out piece..... you’re no fun at all

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Oh wait until its crunch league game or the 2021 FAI Cup Final - I'd not be so meh on the red card or making excuses for ballooning a penalty in to the shopping centre!:D

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Originally Posted by Sonny

The ref was awful throughout, and the sending off was harsh enough even if it was a bit of a bizarre lunge.

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Don't tell Bradser, he thought the ref had a great game and it was a definite sending off. Let's hope he's as complimentary when he's on the receiving end because as we know in this league you're sure to be on the wrong side of some bizarre decisions.

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Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

Is Farrugia any good? Seemed to be a lot of hype when he was at UCD, but hasnt seem to grab a consistant starting place.

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His lack of game time is mainly down to injury, but with Sean Kavanagh fit I think he'll be second choice there. Not entirely sure if a wing back system will suit him.

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Originally Posted by mcgonigle

Don't tell Bradser, he thought the ref had a great game and it was a definite sending off. Let's hope he's as complimentary when he's on the receiving end because as we know in this league you're sure to be on the wrong side of some bizarre decisions.

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Just watched the highlights back , definite red he jumped off his feet , these days a red all day.
I dont agree with suspensions carrying from these games or yellows as it gives other teams an advantage starting the league simply because they were not playing...Have seen conflicting opinions on this as to the rule

Is there a video of it anywhere?

(Still photos of a tackle are completely worthless really)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Iz...amrockRoversTV

2 minutes in, 100% a red.

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Originally Posted by Asterix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Iz3MYs7wY&t=125s&ab_channel=Sham rockRove rsTV

2 minutes in, 100% a red.

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He jumps in weird, but is still in control of the tackle and is still far enough away from Burke. As in, its jump not towards Burke, but to side of him, and is not connecting with him in anyway. No feet are in the air when conecting with the ball. Burke gets up straight away, there was no danger to Burke. Its a yellow at most, only looks bad because of the weird jump.

In the same videos, the ref clearly pulls out a yellow. Only turns into a red because of the Rovers players reactions. You can say what you want about the tackle, but if the Rover players didnt react that way, no way he was getting a red.

Not sure how he can have any complaints there. Clear red for me. You simply can't lunge towards someone with both feet off the ground from behind. Getting the ball or not actually injuring Burke is irrelevant; that's just a dangerous tackle.

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Kiki Balboa;2068442

In the same videos, the ref clearly pulls out a yellow. Only turns into a red because of the Rovers players reactions. You can say what you want about the tackle, but if the Rover players didnt react that way, no way he was getting a red.

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You can’t state with any kind of certainty (as you have tried to do) that he only gets a red because of Rovers players reactions, there are countless reasons he could have yellow in his hand, and may simply have went for the wrong card. (See Burnley - Arsenal last week when ref was rescinding the red issued to Pieters but pulled out the yellow, it is hardly uncommon).

From the angle in the highlights provided you can certainly see why that is a red card, in fact there are multiple juatifications for it being red. It is off the ground, two footed and from behind, 3 textbook reasons for issuing a red card.

I would have to see it again and would like to see proper replays of it but the criticism of the ref on that red seems very ott.

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Originally Posted by DCWA

You can’t state with any kind of certainty (as you have tried to do) that he only gets a red because of Rovers players reactions

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Agree with that. An obvious alternative is that the ref had one view of the tackle and called it a yellow, but the linesman overruled him and told him it was a clear red.

100% red after watching that, changed my view from the angle I saw, and you have to give the ref 10/10 for spotting it live. Also thought it was a yellow first initially that he got, then it changed to a red after, but it was a straight red and correct decision.

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Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa

Is Farrugia any good? Seemed to be a lot of hype when he was at UCD, but hasnt seem to grab a consistant starting place.

Mandriou/Burke were both probably Rovers worst players yesterday. Burkes shooting was woeful, summed up by his penalty.

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Farrugia has been struggling with injuries since signing, but I think he also suffers a bit because he's an out and out winger in a system he doesn't naturally fit into. He's been effectively learning the wing back role on the job when he has played, and I think he's actually done very well defensively for the most part. He has the physicality and raw ability to go a very long way in his career, but I think there are question marks around his concentration levels and his football IQ. He's at his best when he's playing off the cuff, but his decision making lets him down at times and he seems to lose focus in games.

Think you're being harsh on Mandroiu there tbh. He was quiet enough but showed some decent touches at times in the first half. I wouldn't really be expecting much more from a young lad who barely played last season and is finding his feet in a new team.

And yeah based on that angle there can be no complaints about the red. Braindead lunge.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Not sure how he can have any complaints there. Clear red for me. You simply can't lunge towards someone with both feet off the ground from behind. Getting the ball or not actually injuring Burke is irrelevant; that's just a dangerous tackle.

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That angle paints a different picture from the ganrty/WatchLoI coverage. Its very clear why the ref opted for a red card and tough to argue against - there are a few mitigating factors against a red but a bit clutching at straws when ye see that angl. I think the best way to sort out any grey area is to question what I'd think if that tackle had been put in against a Dundalk player and my conlusion would be RED - he nearly took his leg off! Naw if thats more like what the ref saw when on the spot ye cant argue much.

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

That angle paints a different picture from the ganrty/WatchLoI coverage. Its very clear why the ref opted for a red card and tough to argue against - there are a few mitigating factors against a red but a bit clutching at straws when ye see that angl. I think the best way to sort out any grey area is to question what I'd think if that tackle had been put in against a Dundalk player and my conlusion would be RED - he nearly took his leg off! Naw if thats more like what the ref saw when on the spot ye cant argue much.

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That angle also explains why McCann and Joey O’B got so animated-

Must just be me so, no matter how many times I watch it I think it's a great tackle.

He lunges, but not towards the player so how is it dangerous? He could never have caught Burke from that angle. The lunge is to reach the ball, he gets all of the ball and non of the man.

Would have been a great tackle but it was late.....20 years too late ;)