Faroe Islands and other minnows

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

By the way . . . are you that big bald-headed lad I met at Dublin Airport on Wednesday??

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:eek:

I don't think baldness and make-up match well, would look like a crossover of techno and goth :) So, ehm, no it wasn't me :D

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Originally Posted by Levantine

It should ultimately be up to the Liechtensteiners of the world to decide which system they prefer. As romantic as the current system may seem to an outsider (with the occasional surprise result), I do believe most of their football fans would rather have a few really competetive matches in a preliminary round, than just one in an entire campaign.
Wouldn't everyone?



Actually, Africa has the same number (give or take one) of participants as Europe, while Asia has fewer than both. See here.
Who would have thought? :ball:

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Yes, but travel distances are a huge difference as Pineapple Stu told. Travelling from Egypt to South Africa is a much more expensive trip than from Norway to Spain, let alone what it will cost to go from Guam to Jordan. Plus, in Europe there's excellent travel facilities because we have good transport facilities both via air, water and land. While an away game to Sao Tome & Principe or the Comores is much less easy to organise, certainly for a rather poor FA from the other side of the continent. If Cape Verde has to play away vs the Seychelles it would cost them a fortune... While in Europe this problem is non existing. Even Israel-Iceland would be relatively easy to set up.

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Originally Posted by Levantine

Actually, Africa has the same number (give or take one) of participants as Europe, while Asia has fewer than both. See here.
Who would have thought? :ball:

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Hmmm...was thinking that afterwards alright...oh well! Still, the travel is definitely a consideration. Also, the difference in quality between the top and bottom European and the top and bottom African and Asian teams is far smaller.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

With my suggestion they certainly wouldn't be kicked out.

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Marginalised/kicked out - same idea.

The next campaign sees I think groups of eight? That'll give the smaller nations a couple more competitive games too. In any case, you currently have the likes of Faroe Islands v. Cyprus, Liechtenstein v. Luxembourg, Malta v. Iceland - in which the bigger country has yet to win. So there are a few competitive games already anyway.

I kinda liked seeing San Marino go one up against England so i say keep them in :)

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Originally Posted by Cowboy

I kinda liked seeing San Marino go one up against England so I say keep them in :)

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:D

Case rested!

A glorious seven minutes spent flicking between NI-Ireland and San Marino-England before David Platt I think finally equalised. Memories! Still have the newspaper from the following day! :)

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Originally Posted by gaf1983

Is there any real point in footballing minnows such as the Faroe Islands, Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra, Scotland, Kazakhstan, Malta and Luxembourg competing with the stronger nations in the qualifiers? Their only function is to serve as cannon fodder for the better teams. FIFA themselves even recognise this in their rules about goal difference - when ranking teams on equal points, the goal difference built up in the matches agains the weakest teams in the group is discounted. All the small teams can hope for is to take a few scalps off the bigger teams, such as Liechtenstein's nil-all victory against us a few years ago, or the Faroes' draw against the Scots, or else to take points off smaller teams. As a result, when they play the bigger teams, they invariably put about 10 men behind the ball - nothing wrong with that, their managers are free to choose whatever tactics they please, negative or positive, but it just shows that they go into matches without much hope of winning in the first place.

What I propose is that FIFA set up a two-tier qualifying competition, where the countries that habitually end up as whipping-boys play each other. Then allow the top two teams out of this section qualify for the main qualifiers with all the other teams. At least it would give the small teams a better chance of building up a string of good results, with the incentive being that they would get to play against the top teams in Europe. It must be demoralising for both the players and fans of these teams at the moment to know that they never have a chance of qualifying for the major tournaments - in this system at least they wouldn't have to got week in week out getting trounced.

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i see your point,and its a good idea. but what id prefer personally is to go one further, have say the lowest 7 ranked uefa countries put into one group qualifying group, so theres going to be a chance of 1 minnow qualifying,and one to make play offs.id understand the logic of objecting to this,because it would guarantee the likes of andorra san marino etc gettin into the world cup/european championship.

if i couldnt get that guaranteed,then my next and very fair suggestion is this:

an open draw for every team,no seeds,no pots,no pools etc. simple open draw. meaning technically the likes of germany, france, italy, spain, sweden, england could end up in the same group-of course the big countries would be majorly pi$$ed off at that, and likewise andorra,san marino,faeroes,liechtenstein,luxembourg and malta could get in the same group. but tough shiyt if anyone is inconvenienced.this is a completely open and fair way of drawing qualifying groups.the current system is corrupt to the advantage of the bigger countries.

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Originally Posted by Colie

Was chatting to the Faroes fans & they loved the craic of all the foreigners coming over. The women get fresh meat in for a couple of days & all the locals get to see world superstars play like Keane & Henry. There's no way it's disheartening for the fans, I reckon they're over the moon to have these games. Now as for the team, yeah, I guess it hurts.

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ah the oul "sure we're just happy to be there" attitude :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by anto eile

ah the oul "sure we're just happy to be there" attitude :rolleyes:

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Actually, a couple of people I was talking to were saying they were getting bored with losing all the time and were looking for the team to take another step forward and start getting five or six points a campaign. A few years ago, the Faroes were getting beaten 8-1 (by Yugoslavia) and 6-2 (by Spain), so they've made progress since then already. Perfect example of why they shouldn't be marginalised.

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Originally Posted by Gerrit

Vatican City FA is busy with affiliaton to the UEFA and FIFA (yes, they have an own national team and their own five-a-league with several sides competing !). Now that is a small country to join, 1000 inhabitants - it even makes Luxembourg look huge. Still, they're a country so they have the right to join, I'd even say it will be an interesting team to look forward to and quite a unique trip (even though due to spectator numbers games against somewhat good teams will probably be played in Rome's Olympic Stadium)

It's the world cup: everyone is invited. Club football has become a somewhat elitist thing, let's not do the same with countrywise football please.

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imagine this:northern ireland v vatican city.should be interesting :D:D :D :D
interestingly the vatican would (like andorra, who play in Barcelona) have to play home games out of their own country.id say theyd play in the flaminio stadium rathere than olimpico though

Read in When Saturday Comes that the Isle of Man and Guernsey are among the federations looking to join FIFA and play in the World Cup (though they wouldn't be allowed enter the European Championships). Now that would be taking the mick.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Read in When Saturday Comes that the Isle of Man and Guernsey are among the federations looking to join FIFA and play in the World Cup (though they wouldn't be allowed enter the European Championships). Now that would be taking the mick.

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Well Guernsey have upgraded their Footes Lane ground to a 5,000 all-seater stadium iirc in time for this year's Muratti game against Jersey.

Plus they won the Football competition at the last Island Games.

The Isle of Man are the same - they compete in the Games (and won gold in the 2001 tournament) - plus they host the three Football League sides every summer in the Isle of Man Tournament- and regularly beat them.

Both would make good strong candidates - about the same standard as San Marino and Liechtenstein.

I would like to see them given a chance in the World Cup

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Originally Posted by anto eile

imagine this:northern ireland v vatican city.should be interesting :D:D :D :D
interestingly the vatican would (like andorra, who play in Barcelona) have to play home games out of their own country.id say theyd play in the flaminio stadium rathere than olimpico though

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I'd be more worried about an Islamic country playing them TBH. But it could very much happen that Northern Iron plays the Vatican, as the Vatican FA is on its way to enter the FIFA... Will probably not take too long before their first official international game is being played.

Andorra plays in its own Andorra La Vella ground but moves to Barcelona when a big crowd is expected. When Belgium played there 3 years ago it was in their own ground (BEL won 0-1 thanks to the referee framing Andorra - I don't like Belgian FA so I support the opposition, and I never came that close to see the Belgian FA ego's get THAT humiliated... Thanks a lot referee :mad: )

The Vatican would have no problem in finding a ground nearby, there is AFAIK no sport accomodation on Vatican soil (maybe someone who's visited the country or who has a detailed map can prove me right or wrong) but it would not be a problem to play their games on Italian soil.
I do wonder who will play for them, as most Vatican citizens keep their own nationality. I guess though the FA will arrange Vatican nationality for all selected players. They have a 5-a-side league so they can recruit players there and give them the Vatican nationality, as far as the Vatican-based players in the league have not already gained the local citizenship.

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Originally Posted by Réiteoir

I would like to see them given a chance in the World Cup

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They're not countries, though, is my problem. Where do you draw the line? Do you let Cork in? ;)

Think the rule in UEFA is that you have to be a recognised country. This only came in in '94 or so, so anyone who got in before that (e.g. the Faroes) isn't going to get kicked out retrospectively. FIFA don't have such a rule though, it seems.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They're not countries, though, is my problem. Where do you draw the line? Do you let Cork in? ;)

Think the rule in UEFA is that you have to be a recognised country. This only came in in '94 or so, so anyone who got in before that (e.g. the Faroes) isn't going to get kicked out retrospectively. FIFA don't have such a rule though, it seems.

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I'm open to correction but I think you have to be a at least principality with its own legislature and have a national league (hence the league of wales being formed)

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Originally Posted by Réiteoir

Both would make good strong candidates - about the same standard as San Marino and Liechtenstein.

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The Faroe Islands participated in the Island Games football competition in the eighties and early nineties, and if my memory doesn't let me down, I think that the Faroes won gold everytime - very convincing too. This actually led them into seeking other challanges, which led into FIFA membership in 1988 - and UEFA in 1990. And even if they're still considered minnows, and rightly so, they have come a long way since their days at the Island Games. On a sidenote: It's a pity that they exited the Island Games, they could easily have manned a special island games team, since they don't participate with a U-21 team in UEFA and FIFA compititions..

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Originally Posted by Réiteoir

I would like to see them given a chance in the World Cup

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I agree with that.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Think the rule in UEFA is that you have to be a recognised country. This only came in in '94 or so, so anyone who got in before that (e.g. the Faroes) isn't going to get kicked out retrospectively. FIFA don't have such a rule though, it seems.

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We wouldn't want Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland kicked out, now would we? ;)

I don't know if the rule is still the same, but it used to be: minimum distance of X kilometers to the homeland (not sure of the number) + well-structured FA. Thus, Greenland and Gibraltar could go in (well, the latter will have political objection rather than any other).

The following sovereign or non-sovereign states have well-structured FAs as far as I know and could apply for FIFA recognition if you let out political issues. The starred ones are busy with FIFA application and will very likely be entering the FIFA very soon.


Vatican City (*)
Monaco
Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
Guernsey
Isle of Man
Shetland Islands
Greenland (need a grass pitch or recognition of artificial surface and they're in)
Lapland
Gibraltar
Falkland Islands
Canary Islands
Tuvalu (*)
Christmas Island
Nauru
Cocos Islands (Keering Islands)
Tibet
East Timor
Western Sahara (?? Not sure if their FA meets all criteria)


Of all these countries, two are currently in the affiliation process and will normally enter FIFA soon: Vatican City, and Tuvalu.


Interesting fact is that approx 5 years ago, Palestina's FA was allowed in and has played in the qualifiers for this World Cup. Hence, Palestina is not yet fully sovereign (or at least not recognised by all countries), still they were allowed in. Bit of double standards IMO, if you drop political issues here you should do the same everywhere and also allow Tibet, Gibraltar and Falkland Islands to join. Why would Palestina be able to join despite Israeli objection while Spain and Argentina can still block Gibraltar and Falklands from joining ?!

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Originally Posted by Islander

The Faroe Islands participated in the Island Games football competition in the eighties and early nineties, and if my memory doesn't let me down, I think that the Faroes won gold everytime - very convincing too. This actually led them into seeking other challanges, which led into FIFA membership in 1988 - and UEFA in 1990. And even if they're still considered minnows, and rightly so, they have come a long way since their days at the Island Games. On a sidenote: It's a pity that they exited the Island Games, they could easily have manned a special island games team, since they don't participate with a U-21 team in UEFA and FIFA compititions..



I agree with that.

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The women's team still competes in the Games

Apparently a mate of mine from Jersey refereed one of their games in the 2003 tournament and had it shown live on Faeroes TV :D

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Originally Posted by Gerrit

I don't know if the rule is still the same, but it used to be: minimum distance of X kilometers to the homeland (not sure of the number) + well-structured FA. Thus, Greenland and Gibraltar could go in (well, the latter will have political objection rather than any other).

The following sovereign or non-sovereign states have well-structured FAs as far as I know and could apply for FIFA recognition if you let out political issues. The starred ones are busy with FIFA application and will very likely be entering the FIFA very soon.


Vatican City (*)
Monaco
Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus
Guernsey
Isle of Man
Shetland Islands
Greenland (need a grass pitch or recognition of artificial surface and they're in)
Lapland
Gibraltar
Falkland Islands
Canary Islands
Tuvalu (*)
Christmas Island
Nauru
Cocos Islands (Keering Islands)
Tibet
East Timor
Western Sahara (?? Not sure if their FA meets all criteria)


Of all these countries, two are currently in the affiliation process and will normally enter FIFA soon: Vatican City, and Tuvalu.

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Jersey should be on that list as well

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They're not countries, though, is my problem. Where do you draw the line? Do you let Cork in? ;)

Think the rule in UEFA is that you have to be a recognised country. This only came in in '94 or so, so anyone who got in before that (e.g. the Faroes) isn't going to get kicked out retrospectively. FIFA don't have such a rule though, it seems.

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True on the second point.

First point - Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man all have independant Parliaments - and they set their own Laws