WUFC have difficulty paying players

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Putting the entire squad up for sale (as has been mentioned)

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With all due respect, I'd be inclined to take that statement with a pinch of salt. Who exactly said that?

From reading Dick Long's posts, both here and on btid, he's usually right on the money so I'd be more inclined to go along with him:

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As a result of recent drastically dropping crowds it is obvious to the directors that there is a serious danger of getting into debt, and they are trying to head it off before that happens. They have been honest about this and are making an appeal for support.

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This appeal for support has been on various programs on WLR, and from this both supporters clubs have come up with different fund raising ideas. (One of them being the head shave, which may be small in the overall scheme, but is something)

There is a general apathy towards the blues by both the public and sponsors/investors, which the club are trying to rectify before it's too late.

As for Finn, he came highly rated, but hasn't made it past the subs bench on a regular occasion yet.

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Originally Posted by noby

Who exactly said that?

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You could follow the link and find out! ;) Jagman and Partizan.

De Corner you are a twit if you cannot see that the demise of clubs like Waterford or Shamrock Rovers would seriously enganger the future of the league itself. If you lose teams with tradition and colour then you damage the revenue of all clubs eventually. I wish Waterford the best of luck as like thousand of other genuine sports followers I would hate to see them go out of business. :ball:

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Originally Posted by observer

De Corner you are a twit if you cannot see that the demise of clubs like Waterford or Shamrock Rovers would seriously enganger the future of the league itself. If you lose teams with tradition and colour then you damage the revenue of all clubs eventually. I wish Waterford the best of luck as like thousand of other genuine sports followers I would hate to see them go out of business. :ball:

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Your natural inclination as a football fan is to hope these clubs do not go out of business for sake of tradition and their supporters. However these clubs have been spending money they simply do not have gaining an unfair advantage over their competitors and now expect to be bailed out in the aftermath and that is unfair on those of us who actually spend within our means. This is itself is something bad for the game. It's hard to know what to feel to be honest.

This is perhaps reflective of football as a whole at the moment. The game is dead, business is king.

What is the point in supporting a club? Are they representative of your region/town/city? Hardly, the league is merry go round, and most 'career' players - who knock out 5-10 years in the league will play for several clubs, so where's the representation there?

Who wins trophies? Is that a reflection of the talent of football in your region/town/city? Well, the teams with money buy the best players, have the best grounds and win the most trophies. So what do we celebrate, the achievements of the team that represents you or the achievements of the business men who made this happen.

Why not sing the investors names instead of the players? After all, they are the ones who really make the difference aren't they?

Theoretically Rovers and Waterford could challenge for trophies in Europe in 2 years if it were some patron's will. But what would Rovers and Waterford celebrate? the lottery that someone 'bought' success?

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Originally Posted by el punter

This is perhaps reflective of football as a whole at the moment. The game is dead, business is king.

What is the point in supporting a club? Are they representative of your region/town/city? Hardly, the league is merry go round, and most 'career' players - who knock out 5-10 years in the league will play for several clubs, so where's the representation there?

Who wins trophies? Is that a reflection of the talent of football in your region/town/city? Well, the teams with money buy the best players, have the best grounds and win the most trophies. So what do we celebrate, the achievements of the team that represents you or the achievements of the business men who made this happen.

Why not sing the investors names instead of the players? After all, they are the ones who really make the difference aren't they?

Theoretically Rovers and Waterford could challenge for trophies in Europe in 2 years if it were some patron's will. But what would Rovers and Waterford celebrate? the lottery that someone 'bought' success?

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What are you talking about ? People support a team in the eircom League because they are there local side, it does not matter where the players come from because they play for the club, you dont support the player, no player is bigger than any club. A lot of clubs nowadays have a lot of local players in there squads anyway, take Cork for example, brimming with local talent, Derry are the same.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

However these clubs have been spending money they simply do not have gaining an unfair advantage over their competitors and now expect to be bailed out in the aftermath

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Poor Student, you're talking like we went out and bought all round us to win trophies. A couple of yere players and some more first division players were added to the squad. We didn't 'do a shels' or anything.
Budgets etc were set out, probably assuming a 1600 gate (not totally unreasonable), but with smaller crowds, it's getting harder to make ends meet. That's it.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

You could follow the link and find out! ;) Jagman and Partizan.

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So, you believe Waterford fans when they say that, but previously take what the very same people said with a pinch of salt.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by el punter

What is the point in supporting a club? Are they representative of your region/town/city? Hardly, the league is merry go round, and most 'career' players - who knock out 5-10 years in the league will play for several clubs, so where's the representation there?

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You could say the same about the international team, any foreign club that Irish people follow etc.

You support the club, not individual players. Sure it's better if they're local and feel for the club in the same way the fans do, but ultimately i prefer Town have better players than crap locals.

Non-local players is just another thing to add to the excuse list for people that can't be bothered to get off their arses and go to watch a match live.

Yes Macy, it can be said about any club. Less so international football though, particularly with the current Irish team where the cast majority of the starting 11 were born and grew up in Ireland. Consequently I feel a great affinity with this Irish team.

On Roo's point, perhaps Cork and Derry are exceptions to the trend, (I would suggest that at extreme geographical ends of the country it's perhaps difficult to get Dublin based players to make the necessary sacrifices to travel). I think its hard to deny that many 'heroes' of one club will turn out for local rivals at some stage of their career. Shels preseason raid on Dalymount being a case in point.

Waterford's situation is hardly as a result of reckless buying to win trophies. It has already been pointed out that their wages bill is one of the lowest in the League. Anyone who is interested in the game as a whole would have to be alarmed at the idea of their going out of business. :ball:

I know a way that could help wufc. In todays leauge cup draw, heat the two balls that repesent cork city and the blues, hope that waterford are at home and they would be gaurenteed another bumper crowd. Waterford would be happy and city fans are gaurenteed that we dont have to travel to derry or drogheda. ;)

plus easy passage to the next round

Blues are hardly a team of mercenaries either. We have a small enough squad of which Frosty, Breen, Sullivan, Grant, Browne and Gahan are all local. As were Rennie and Daryl Murphy. Waters and Doyle are both from Wexford so we're their nearest eL club. Most of the rest come from the Munster/South East region - Holden, Mulcahy, Andrews, Purcell, Heffernan, Yelverton, Bruton. They're as local to us as Shels or Bohs are to a southside Dubliner.

As for the draw, kevin is right. I want Cork at home for the gate receipts and because in a derby, the hungrier side usually wins....and by God we're hungry.

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Originally Posted by noby

So, you believe Waterford fans when they say that

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It's been widely reported in the media, as far as I can see.

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Originally Posted by observer

Waterford's situation is hardly as a result of reckless buying to win trophies. It has already been pointed out that their wages bill is one of the lowest in the League.

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While that's fair enough, if they had any sort of budget, they wouldn't be far outspending what they're bringing in. They mightn't be going all out to win trophies, but they are outliving their means. That's my problem.

I've no ill will towards Waterford's fans obviously, but similarly, I've no time for clubs who don't understand basic budgeting, unfortunately.

The RSC is a big problem IMO. Its a terrible place to watch a game.

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Originally Posted by noby

Poor Student, you're talking like we went out and bought all round us to win trophies. A couple of yere players and some more first division players were added to the squad. We didn't 'do a shels' or anything.
Budgets etc were set out, probably assuming a 1600 gate (not totally unreasonable), but with smaller crowds, it's getting harder to make ends meet. That's it.

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I'm not. I said you're outliving your means. If that means bringing you to midtable obscurity, or avoiding relegation it is still going above your means once expenditure exceeds income. Some of us don't do this and you gain an advantage over us. I don't want to see clubs going to the wall but I also want to see all of us living within means. That is the alarming thing. Football clubs continually err on the wrong side of caution.

Is Rennie still a Waterford player?

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Originally Posted by Risteard

Is Rennie still a Waterford player?

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From what I've read he declined to stay on the playing staff however it is unclear if someone else goes for him whether Waterford will be due a transfer fee.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

I'm not. I said you're outliving your means. If that means bringing you to midtable onscurity, or avoiding relegation it is still going above your means once expenditure exceeds income. Some of us don't do this and you gain an advantage over us. I don't want to see clubs going to the wall but I also want to see all of us living within means. That is the alarming thing. Football clubs continually err on the wrong side of caution.

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This is exactly what the directors have highlighted, and are acting on. Whether that means selling some players, or looking for investors, or just trying to boost the home gate, they are doing something before it's too late, and not just spending willy-nilly, and above their means.

9000 a week includes all running costs such as gardai/stewarding at home games and travel & food expenses for away games - something Dublin clubs do not have to contend with in any way near the same way as Cork, Derry and Waterford. Aside from the comparitively short journeys to Drogheda and Longford, Dublin sides will have to travel 'proper' either 4 or 5 times in the entire League campaign this season. I'm getting a bit defensive here - and it goes without saying UCD have their own obstacles to overcome - but it's pretty easy to budget on a crowd that couldn't possibly get any smaller. Based on the previous 4 seasons' attendances the Waterford Board's budgetting could not have been seen as a major risk.

Another (smaller) financial factor is the Tall Ships event coming to the town next month which every local business seems to be climbing over each other to get a piece of - at the expensive of Waterford United's sponsorship. A living legend of a player for Waterford Johnny Matthews - who is still the sixth highest goalscorer in League of Ireland history (as a winger!) - found himself banging his head against a brick wall in his efforts as the Club's Commerical Manager.

**** happens, the club will come through this just as Derry, Drogheda and even Pat's last year have done in recent seasons.