Potential ramifications for LOI after todays FAI accounts debacle.

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09/12/2019, 3:01 PM
Mr A

Not only that, one club at a gathering at the FAI earlier this year pointed out youth solidarity money was late and was causing massive problems for them.

At the time I remember thinking it was a huge step forward that they were even willing to stand up and say that, because in previous times they probably would not.
09/12/2019, 3:23 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nesta99

I take back what I said about being knwoledgeable on football in the South. You do at least know that this all really kicked off when Dundalk went looking for a tranche of their European prizemoney and the FAI refused and started to dictate at timetable for possible paying on of the money. The 100k was partly at least to throw Dundalk a few quid to keep things sweet until the rest of the money could be gathered up.

Licencing is flawed but rightly not always draconian eg with Vinny Perth doing his Pro Licence, this requirement covered by having a pro licence holder on the bench temorarily. Its gets daft when a planning application can cover stadia requirements.

The payments you mention go in to seperate accounts yes, consider that the Honarary Tresurer didnt know what accounts the FAI held. Those specific accounts were dipped in to to cover more pressing running costs like the CEOs dinner, rent, 5k to clubs as he wished without checks and balances, salary, jobs for the (ex) girlfirends, cans for the supporters etc - ye know the important stuff...

I do understand the doubts that you have Mr P, its is entirely unbelieveable. You are technically correct that everyone in Irish football has in some way contributed to all of this by keeping the heads down but higher up the foodchain attempts were made to intervene including by government PAC - did you see the contempt shown to the national parliment?? If they, including some of the no bs types, couldnt make any headway how could a bunch of clubs that have been starved to keep them weak and in check?

In another country where white collar crime was taken seriously there would be a real prospect of time served for what has happened, alas I think the Garda investigation has happened due to scorned politicians in the PAC that want a piece of JD for his show of contempt - not that there is a 'crime' to be answered by the individual who used patsies to do his bidding and cover him. At best the underdeclaring of tax on his benefits in kind might mean pressure from the revenue - payment and fine! I hope that JD continues to stonewall and in his arrogant detatchment from reality damages himself some more and CAB and the task force set up get the bit between their teeth also.

You prove my point. Yes I am aware of what triggered the Delaney cheque. It was the very challenging of the lack of payment to Dundalk that is the sort of 'power' clubs hold over association's that I am highlighting and how they can be held in check. While it may not expose all the wrong doing, it certainly would cast a shadow. Clubs need to and needed to, speak out on such matters at the time. Accepting being 'kept sweet' is not right imo. I suspect Dundalk were fortunate enough financially to accept part payment, a luxury few clubs could afford.

The intervention by the PAC was late in the day. Such attempts at accountability should have started a decade ago and not just by government.

No other national association would allow what happened ref Perth. There were attempts by some Welsh clubs to do similar, but they were shot down. Indeed when Waterford lost out on a UEFA spot, they should have really been arguing that case. You call it being draconian, most see it as ensuring a level playing field.
09/12/2019, 3:29 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

Not only that, one club at a gathering at the FAI earlier this year pointed out youth solidarity money was late and was causing massive problems for them.

At the time I remember thinking it was a huge step forward that they were even willing to stand up and say that, because in previous times they probably would not.

Has it been paid out for this period? I presume that despite a seasonality difference it would be due to LOI clubs at the same time as IFA clubs, which was paid to them last week.
09/12/2019, 3:33 PM
colonelwest

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Isn't that exactly what happened with Dundalk's European prize money?

Yup, look at the FAI balance sheets for 2017 and 2018:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELG2jWNX...g&name=900x900

Coincidentally there's around a 6m dent in the difference which just so happens to be the prize and tv money that we were owed from the EL campaign from UEFA.

JD/ The FAI got the funds from UEFA to pay it down to Dundalk as is the standard process across Europe and they used it as cash flow for as long as they could,insisted they'd give it to Dundalk on tick or some sort of long term HP plan for Dundalks own good out of the goodness of their FAI hearts. Sure they can't be trusted with their own money they earned. Understandably, DFC weren't too happy with that arrangement and after plenty of back and forth a threat was made to go public with it as a bill was coming due for DFC so funds were demanded ASAP from the FAI balance owed, et voila JD and his magic 100k. Also allegedly a massive coincidence his divorce was being finalised at the time. Ahem.
09/12/2019, 4:49 PM
Mr A

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Has it been paid out for this period? I presume that despite a seasonality difference it would be due to LOI clubs at the same time as IFA clubs, which was paid to them last week.

No idea, but last year's only seems to have arrived in or around July as that's when this exchange took place.
09/12/2019, 5:09 PM
Nesta99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

You prove my point. Yes I am aware of what triggered the Delaney cheque. It was the very challenging of the lack of payment to Dundalk that is the sort of 'power' clubs hold over association's that I am highlighting and how they can be held in check. While it may not expose all the wrong doing, it certainly would cast a shadow. Clubs need to and needed to, speak out on such matters at the time. Accepting being 'kept sweet' is not right imo. I suspect Dundalk were fortunate enough financially to accept part payment, a luxury few clubs could afford.

The intervention by the PAC was late in the day. Such attempts at accountability should have started a decade ago and not just by government.

No other national association would allow what happened ref Perth. There were attempts by some Welsh clubs to do similar, but they were shot down. Indeed when Waterford lost out on a UEFA spot, they should have really been arguing that case. You call it being draconian, most see it as ensuring a level playing field.

What makes you think Dundalk were happy with being kept sweet, that they accepted the FAI's bullyman payment plan. Or indeed where genesis of the story got put in view of journalists, where the story was confirmed cast iron legally. It is unlikely to be a coincidence though that Dundalk were in a position to call the shots, refusing the FAIs fudge, this may not have been the case 2013 - by 2019 at multi billion $ sports management company was involved and the club chairman didnt hold back in his comments.
09/12/2019, 5:52 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

No idea, but last year's only seems to have arrived in or around July as that's when this exchange took place.

Might be an apt time for more questions to be asked then.
09/12/2019, 6:13 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nesta99

What makes you think Dundalk were happy with being kept sweet, that they accepted the FAI's bullyman payment plan. Or indeed where genesis of the story got put in view of journalists, where the story was confirmed cast iron legally. It is unlikely to be a coincidence though that Dundalk were in a position to call the shots, refusing the FAIs fudge, this may not have been the case 2013 - by 2019 at multi billion $ sports management company was involved and the club chairman didnt hold back in his comments.

I didn't say they were happy, more so in a position where they could accept without significant impact. Had they been a club who were not in such a healthy position, I would expect them to be singing from the roof tops rather than just a small seed being sown.
09/12/2019, 8:08 PM
Hitman

Do the FAI still own United Park and St. Colman's Park?
09/12/2019, 8:55 PM
Nesta99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

Do the FAI still own United Park and St. Colman's Park?

Yes and dont know. Are you suggesting an asset firesale and making clubs homeless - well if its for the greater good United Park is worth 12-20mil!
09/12/2019, 9:11 PM
Nesta99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

I didn't say they were happy, more so in a position where they could accept without significant impact. Had they been a club who were not in such a healthy position, I would expect them to be singing from the roof tops rather than just a small seed being sown.

There was a process, legal team phone numbers were swapped, and Dundalk got their money more or less as requested. I'm not sure how much shouting could be done as nobody would have known the FAI reason for a payment plan other than its the FAI and we even joked in 2016 that they would try to get a cut of the prizemoney annually. Any initial delay in payments wasnt even a general secret and could have been explained away with a 'the CFO' is out for the next few weeks. There's a retrospective context that of course now people would have been marching on Abbotstown with pitchforks ready. But at the time?? And that small seed sown has done a spectacular job so dont knock it!! If Delaney could get Waterford licenced for Europe when they werent eligible only for his demise to put a stop to it, it again shows the lengths to which he used sway to reward or punish depending. The right course was followed and the club was protected.
09/12/2019, 9:26 PM
pineapple stu

Another question with the way this is going - say the FAI go bankrupt, and it takes a few months to get a new FAI constituted - lack of directors, rows with the government, and so on.

Are we out in the international cold while there's no FAI?
09/12/2019, 9:39 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Another question with the way this is going - say the FAI go bankrupt, and it takes a few months to get a new FAI constituted - lack of directors, rows with the government, and so on.

Are we out in the international cold while there's no FAI?

I would be shocked if it got anywhere near bankruptcy from the figures we have. Much of the new 'big' numbers arise from required accountancy protocols. However some are worrying, like the Sports Direct one, but I believe with effort they can be managed. The biggest being the bank, they would be reluctant, imo, to be the ones to pull the house of cards down.
09/12/2019, 10:07 PM
pineapple stu

It's near bankruptcy right now.

It mayn't happen - I think there's a lot of interest in it not happening - but it factually is near bankruptcy at this current moment in time
09/12/2019, 11:19 PM
A N Mouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Another question with the way this is going - say the FAI go bankrupt, and it takes a few months to get a new FAI constituted - lack of directors, rows with the government, and so on.

Are we out in the international cold while there's no FAI?

From what little digging I've done it seems as soon as the government/revenue step up and try winding up the association, fifa become involved says your not of the boss of me this is a footballing matter.

Now of course the only card they really have to play is international ban for X amount of years. Which carries some weight, but then again these kind of situations tend to involved tinpot regimes or developing country's. However before the last world cup they threatened Spain and banned Mali for government interference. And Ghana have operated under a 'normalization committee' for the last number of years, supposedly ending this month, after the government rowed back from effectively dissolving the association and inserted work with fifa.

Course then there this talk of a joint bid for 2030. I mean where tf did that come from?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39294566

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-so...-idUKKBN1E92AX

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45220125
10/12/2019, 7:58 AM
NeverFeltBetter

Sierra Leone also only got a suspension lifted this summer (just in time for CAF World Cup qualifiers) after government interference. Greece were also suspended for a time in 2006.
10/12/2019, 8:17 AM
pineapple stu

Greece were threatened with a ban in 2016 and 2018 as well.

What happens if the bank pull the plug? That's hardly government interference.
10/12/2019, 8:51 AM
A N Mouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Greece were threatened with a ban in 2016 and 2018 as well.

What happens if the bank pull the plug? That's hardly government interference.

Imagine if you look into whatever statute it'll be phrased something like 'outside interference' it just most commonly manifests as 'government interference'. I haven't gone back further than last few years, but that Ghana one was closest I could find there was a winding up order in court.

The bank can pull the plug, but it still has to go to court. And, tinfoil hat time, they don't want any association properly investigated by an outside body. Is that fbi investigation still ongoing? I'm sure they'd be more than willing to check any money that was just resting in an account.

But in truth unless someone can come up with an example of an association actually disbanding then we only really have conjecture.
10/12/2019, 2:03 PM
Martinho II

There was a very interesting interview with Des Cahill on Claire Byrne show last night. The way he was treated was terrible and even worse when he knew JDs father extremely well. I never knew why he wasnt involved in the soccer anymore and now I know why. It explains why a lot of the journos got threats from the FAI and had to pull back on their stories. I reckon with the Sunday times the only reason they fought their injunctions in the High Court well was they had their backing from their parent Co in the UK who stood by them all the way. Thats why the Sunday Times sports journo got journo of the year !
10/12/2019, 7:01 PM
osarusan

Under normal circumstances the FAI would be lighting a fire under Limerick to sort out a team for 2020.

Without that, I wonder will there even be one.

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