Absolute rubbish!

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on my first day as an under-8 player many years ago was that, when taking a corner, aim the ball for the penalty spot.

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You were knocking them in to the peno area at 7 years old : p


seriously, I think we learnt a lot more about this team than if we got away with the 3 points. It would have been like after the italy rugby match. No changes would have been made and the bandwagon would have continued. It could have all come crashing down later in the group.

Still on schedule but we need to bring in new players.

The game is finished now, we drew with a very poor team and were lucky to get away with that, it was a result that many of us predicted before the game so why are we so SHOCKED.Given made a couple of fine saves and we had no other chances to win it apart from Robbies header, so to be fair we should be happy with the result.
The performance is another thing,totally negative especially after we scored the goal ,but we should have known that this would happen. We are always indifferent away from home and will remain like this unless we have more belief in ourselves. Lads,just look at the team..We really have only three world class players..Given. Roy and Duffers.The next best are Reid,Cunningham Carr (sometimes but not judging on last nites performance)Robbie, Maceady.The rest are a long way off. Kilbane played one good game for us last year and that was against France since that he has been utter crap and plays like that day in day out with Everton. O'Brien did nothing wrong last night but is not a regular at Newcastle, same applies to O'Shea.


We have a very small pool of players to choose from and we are not or never will be world beaters.If the players can regain the passion,pull together and all wear(I mean all) their hearts on their sleeves then we have a chance but dont forget we still have to play Cyprus away(which wont be easy)..
I also cant believe that people are calling for kerrs head its the players that have to be blamed just as much as him.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

seriously, I think we learnt a lot more about this team than if we got away with the 3 points. It would have been like after the italy rugby match. No changes would have been made and the bandwagon would have continued. It could have all come crashing down later in the group.

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this is funny, i felt almost a weird relief last night when israel scored late on - as if the hype balloon had been justifiably punctured and deflated. strips away the bullsh*t and starts us anew

ken fore are you joking ?

I wanted to see us picking up the 3 points too. But we didnt deserve it. Questions must be asked about the mentality of this Irish side and the players who were picked werent up for it. In fairness if we had won we would all be cheering for Morrison and Kerr saying what a brilliant manager he is while papering over a dismal performance.

We would be going in to the China game not willing to make changes etc. As they say, more is learnt about a side in defeat than in victory.

Andy O'Brien's stats

2004/05 18 (so far)
2003/04 23
2002/03 26
2001/02 34

Looks regular enough to me.

O'Brien seems to me to be more of a continental defender. I think he's kind of wasted in the 100 miles an hour Premiership. He'd do well to move to Serie A. Not that they're begging for defenders there or anyone there wants him, but I think he'd do well there.

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Originally Posted by FarBeag

We really have only three world class players..Given. Roy and Duffers.The next best are Reid,Cunningham Carr (sometimes but not judging on last nites performance)Robbie, Maceady.The rest are a long way off. Kilbane played one good game for us last year and that was against France since that he has been utter crap and plays like that day in day out with Everton. O'Brien did nothing wrong last night but is not a regular at Newcastle, same applies to O'Shea.

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Hear, hear but I would rather loose playing well than to play like we did lasty night.

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Originally Posted by FarBeag

we are not or never will be world beaters. I also cant believe that people are calling for kerrs head its the players that have to be blamed just as much as him.

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Nobody's saying we should be world beaters at the moment, just that we are good enough with XI Premiership players to see out the last few minutes against a poor side by keeping possession in their part of the pitch. It's not as if what happened last night is anything new to an Irish team. We should have been good enough to do it but we weren't. It's so frustrating.

Of course the players are to blame too, but you've also got to blame Kerr for leaving things unchanged for so long when it was obvious some players weren't playing well or having any influence. Kilbane, as you say, was crap. But it's not his fault he was on the pitch throughout the game. It's not Clinton's fault that one of our forwards was exhausted. Saying Kerr must take a lot of the blame is not the same as calling for his head though.

As for not winning being a good thing because it punctures the bandwagon, the softer aspects of the Irish media is a cross we will always have to bear unfortunately. I'd rather have the 3 points and still have an objective and honest appraisal of last night's performance from those who can tell their arse from their elbow.

Anyway, it's done now. Luckily we are still in a good position but I just hope some lessons are learnt from this. Maybe it's a welcome reality check.

We've played 5 matches and 3 of those matches have been our hardest on paper. We are joint top of the group and we have the easiest run in of all the teams left. If we won last night it would have been our best win in an away qualifier in 15 years. If Israel lost we also would have broke a very good undefeated run in Tel Aviv from them.

Too many people are underestimating the difference between playing at home and playing away, especially with this team. Mick McCarthy was coaching us for what? 6 years? He only lost 1 home competitive match in that 6 years with no better a team than we have now and that match was his last match in charge against Switzerland. Our away record is brutal and until that changes we can't be expected to beat teams like Israel no matter how good we look on paper.

Looking at the table, all we need is 4 wins and a draw against either France/Swiss to top the group. We really can't expect it to be any more in our own hands than that in a group like this.

And the only thing we can blame Kerr on is playing Finnan on the right of midfield and replacing Morrison with Holland. I hate SGE but I still backed him when they lost against the French. Everyone put the blame on his tactics for the way they sat back. Its psychological and no coach can do anything about that. I remember I had a bet on Chelsea to beat Arsenal on Highbury in the quarters of the CL. I was probably happier to see them go 1-0 down than I would have been if it stayed 0-0 as it was inevitable that Arsenal would sit back.

This is what he Kerr after the match:
“We didn’t create a whole lot, and could have been more incisive going forward."

He's basically saying what we all are. You can't put all the blame on Kerr. Kilbane has gone from being MOM in our last 2 qualifiers to the fans wanting to be dropped. Duffer was not at his best but nobody likes to admit it about him. If it was anyone else that passed that ball back like Duffer did in the match he would have been slated to bits. Robbie Keane was poor too. In fact, Cunningham was our only 1 good outfield player last night. Everyone deserves their fair share of blame, not just the coach.

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Originally Posted by FarBeag

We really have only three world class players..Given. Roy and Duffers.The next best are Reid,Cunningham Carr (sometimes but not judging on last nites performance)Robbie, Maceady.The rest are a long way off. Kilbane played one good game for us last year and that was against France since that he has been utter crap and plays like that day in day out with Everton. O'Brien did nothing wrong last night but is not a regular at Newcastle, same applies to O'Shea.

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Given and Duff are world class. Roy Keane WAS, certainly isn't anymore judging by last night and the two Milan games when he was hardly noticeable. Cunningham IMO is one of the best in the Premiership, but most defenders in that league are average at best anyway. None of the others are near world class, and only 3 (Robbie, Reid and McGeady) have the potential to be anything like world class. As for Kilbane- to say he's only had one good game for the FAireland team, and that he plays crap for everton........well, thats just so far wide of the mark it doesn't even warrant a response

Lets take a look at the remaining away fixtures.

France:--Swiss, ROI, Israel.
Israel:--- ROI, Swiss, Faroe Islands.
Swiss:---ROI, Cyprus, Faroe Islands
ROI:-----Cyprus, Faroe Islands.

France have to face 3 of the 'big four'
Israel have to face 2 of the 'big four'
Swiss have to face 1 of the 'big four'
ROI have to face 0 of the 'big four'

We are in a great position, its not easy winning away from home as we
and the others have found.

None of these teams have got a result against us on their home ground
so their chances of doing so away from home are pretty slim, most
will be happy to come away with a draw.

If we had held out for the win we would have been in a fantastic position,
as it is we are in a good position, one which our rivals must be envious of.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

In fact, Cunningham was our only 1 good outfield player last night. Everyone deserves their fair share of blame, not just the coach.

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None of the papers seem to see it that way but I have to agree...Maybe too much blame is being heaped on Kerr but I think why people are so annoyed is beacuse it was so obvious what was wrong and what to do about it and its rare that that happens...People can go on and on thinking that they could pick the better team or make the right change but on Sat everyone was of the same mind during (I reckon) and after the game (on here now) because it was plain for all to see. Except kerr through the players held on for the 1 nil win and got stung. take for example when we were four on three at the back about ten to go with what looked like a decent oportunity to score. Kerr comes flyin out of the dugout screaming for players to retreat and not leave themselves exposed and I'm afraid that gesture and the shocking result (with consideration to how the game went) exposed Kerr.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

ken fore are you joking ?

I wanted to see us picking up the 3 points too. But we didnt deserve it. Questions must be asked about the mentality of this Irish side and the players who were picked werent up for it. In fairness if we had won we would all be cheering for Morrison and Kerr saying what a brilliant manager he is while papering over a dismal performance.

We would be going in to the China game not willing to make changes etc. As they say, more is learnt about a side in defeat than in victory.

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no i agree with what you're saying! the thing that annoys me is our press/public is getting a bit british in its ability to blow smoke up the hole of what can be a very ordinary irish team at times, and i don't think it's a good habit. ireland didn't deserve it and if this performance and result renews some humility among us, then it's no bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

As for not winning being a good thing because it punctures the bandwagon, the softer aspects of the Irish media is a cross we will always have to bear unfortunately. I'd rather have the 3 points and still have an objective and honest appraisal of last night's performance from those who can tell their arse from their elbow.

Anyway, it's done now. Luckily we are still in a good position but I just hope some lessons are learnt from this. Maybe it's a welcome reality check.

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yea looks like we might get out of jail with the french-swiss draw in paris.. at least we have a good chance if 4 wins/1 draw does it like i'm reading here. our poor performance deserved a draw and i hope that'll distill more belief in the players and setup.

i have to say, i cant see 1 good thing comin from that game. usually u can rely on keano, but he seemed knackered, and way more defensive than normal. going forward we were brutal, robbie was playing too deep and then when he eventually got the ball he had no idea what to do with it. there was no attemt to stretch the play with a long pass, it was all 1 2's which led to nothing.
for the last half hour the lads were just happy to keep the ball.
every time o'brien got the ball he arsed around at the back and was showin way to much of it to the israeli forwards. o'shea looked good coming forward, probably even more effective than duff down the left. kilbane was poor, thats all i'll say on him(i'd need a whole new thread to go into his performance!)
i know its not the end of the world and ever1 is still fairly upbeat about qualification, but if we can have a performance like that what makes you think we can face the french and swiss even at home???
i really cant remember a worse irish performance, makes me wish i wasnt a football fan.dreadful.

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

None of these teams have got a result against us on their home ground so their chances of doing so away from home are pretty slim, most will be happy to come away with a draw.

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Originally Posted by ken foree

....at least we have a good chance if 4 wins/1 draw....

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(a) Does anyone honestly believe we are good enough to go through the rest of the group unbeaten and get 3 or 4 wins?
(b) Will any combination of Andy Reid/Kavanagh and McGeady make a difference?
(c) Lets say Kavanagh (for Keane) and Reid (to allow Finnan to play R/B) play well against Israel will either of both be dropped to allow Roy Keane to return?
(d) Would Kerr still have played Roy Keane and Steve Carr against Israel at home if they were not suspended?

I would like the answers to be: Yes, Yes, No, No, but I suspect they are:
No, No, Yes, Yes.

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Originally Posted by Superhoops

(a) Does anyone honestly believe we are good enough to go through the rest of the group unbeaten and get 3 or 4 wins?

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the fact the other teams are so poor/mediocre helps! it's definitely possible and we have the best chance to do it by playing the big games at LR

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Originally Posted by ken foree

the fact the other teams are so poor/mediocre helps!

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I think all the teams in the group are poor/mediocre. I think there will be several more draws and I think the Swiss will be the team to watch.

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Originally Posted by Burner

I must admit I'm kind of glad that Roy Keane is out for the next game- he set the tone tonight- he stopped us playing.

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I agree with a lot of what you said in your post, but this is rubbish.

The direction on how the game was approached clearly came from the manager, that much was obvious every time Duff or Finnan got the ball out wide, Keane (either of them), Morrison, Kilbane or anyone else didn't seem interested in getting into the box, we were trying to see it out for 85 minutes and it backfired, all down to the manager's negativity IMO.