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He destroyed Cork's centre halfs last night, as he did against Limerick. He didn't look all that great when up against Grace, a quality centre half, and I think Bennett would have been a different proposition for him last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Like everything else in the league, there are pockets of quality but not consistent quality.
Is Cleary not a defender? How does he destroy another centre-half? Do you mean centre-forwards? Or just that he was noticeably better than the opposition centre-halves?
(Or are we talking about different players altogether?)
I thought you were talking about Hoban. Perhaps, he is another example of the point you were making.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Watched the Dundalk-Cork game on EirSports. Dundalk were off the pace with their finishing abilities, Duffy in particular, had a few standard enough chances and fluffed them, but all of that will ease out as the season progresses I'd imagine. They could and should have won 5-0. Cork offered nothing bar Macnamee's chance and surely won't play that badly again this year. There was a little bit too much unsavory needle from Dundalk though. Karl Sheppard got fairly roughhoused by Massey at different points and he was lucky not to get booked. As for Chevdukas, how on earth did he stay on the field after that moment of madness near the end? I understand it's passionate against your biggest rivals but there could have been a few red's in that game last night. The only real downside of the evening was the commentator insisting on pronouncing the goalscorer as "whoobun" ...
Hoban is at least a known from his prior spell at Dundalk, but yeah, I guess you're right that the two could go together alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by White Horse
Just when you look at players like that, it doesn't seem to fit with suggestions that LoI players should be in the senior international squad regularly, or that they should be commanding E250k+ transfer fees.
Players have been signed from the Conference or similar levelsand even below and made an impact at EPL sides albeit the exception than the norm, Ian Wright and Vardy off the top of my head. I get your point but factor in confidence, coaching, motivation, luck, etc etc and there are probably a good few more quality players in the lower tiers of football/LoI that given a different set of circumstances could be commanding large weekly wages and getting capped. A different sporting example would be Agassi in tennis dropping to a local tennis circuit to find form and climbed back to win one more slam event. I know he had shown his ability beforehand but if his form collapsed at a different point in his carreer he may never have gotten to the ATP circuit.
Do you feel personally humbled or is this some sort of collective humbling that you are suggesting?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I think it is a positive reflection on Dan Cleary that he has been so exceptional in his 3 league appearances to date.
Before signing for Dundalk, Karolis Chvedukas was last seen playing in a full international match against England, yet has not been able to command a starting place so far in this Dundalk side.
Neither of this observations on player history either "humble" or boost the league's supporters - however I suspect that both players will prove to be exceptional in the league and in european football this season
I also thought Chevdukas should have been red carded, no intention of winning the ball, just swept through the back of the player. I think the referee was disgusted at the unsportmanslike way Cork chose to keep playing when a player was clearly injured.Quote:
Originally Posted by CorribsideSteve
This should not influence his decision but no one likes this sort of callousness on the pitch. Massey was also lucky not to get booked for persistent fouling.
Dundalk were aggressive, but if you want to beat Cork you have to match their aggression. This is what we didn't have in our performances against them in 2017. We were too nice and tried to played through them.
Last night performance was similar to how we used to play against them in 2014-2016.
As Kenny told the players beforehand, match their aggression and your quality will be the difference.
Fairly obviously the latter, given the reasons I stated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
Of course. Best of luck to the guy. And Hoban.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
Not really relevant to the topic at hand though; international football has a much wider gulf than league football.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
Nesta99 is right that players have gone from the Conference and done well - you can add in Finnan and Kinsella there too - but they are very much the exception. I think some on here forget that when saying LoI players should be more represented in the national squad*, or that English clubs should be shelling out far more for LoI players than they currently do. And I think that Cleary (and indeed Hoban) coming in from doing nothing at a low enough level in England to start off so well with Dundalk highlights that.
* - I'm aware that in the Ireland forum, I've suggested Cummins and Hoban deserve consideration for the preliminary squad, but that's largely because our striking options are so limited at present.
I'd add Sean kavanagh into that equation he looks a fantastic talent . Two motm performances two goals and looks like he can play anywhere. We were asking ourselves last night how on earth did this guy not make a career in the UK? I suppose all of them will be judged over the course of a season rather then a few matches.
Very true alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
If we were getting a fraction of some of the deals offered by English clubs for confererence and L2 players we'd be less inclind to feel insulted by offers that are actually made to us. Fees offered are exploitive and dont represent value to anyone bar the buying club. The low offer does not indicate a high level of risk when offers are give by clubs L1 and below. It has little to do with playing standards in our leagues and much more to do with our lack of organisation and support from the FAI, the take hand and all attitude to finances - we are ripe to be bullied in to letting players go cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
What unadulterated nonesenseQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Prior to trying to reignite his career in the League of Ireland, a young inexperienced player goes on loan to a conference team and you suggest that League of Ireland supporters should be humbled (feeling of inferiority?) by the fact that he then plays well in his first few games in LoI!
Your reason for dismissing the Chvedukas / international football comment is equally laughable on the basis of a gulf in standards, when that appears to be the very point that you are trying to highlight in the case of Cleary doing well so far in League of Ireland
PS - I can only laugh at your asterixed attempt to justify your contradictory Cummins / Hoban comments
Not sure I agree with all of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Definitely, the clubs and the FAI are an issue. If the FAI generated more money for the league/put more into it, or if the clubs had a modicum of organisation and could get beyond hand-to-mouth existence and one-year contracts, that would help.
OK, Vardy for £1m is exceptional, and he's justified it in a way no LoI player has done since maybe Keane. But what fees are L2/Conference clubs getting? It's hard to see for sure - lots of undisclosed transfers - but this site suggests that the 24 clubs in the Conference earned about €900k between them this season. Are we really doing that badly by comparison - taking end-of-contract deals into account - given that the lower half of the LoI Premier in particular is probably lower Conference standard at best; maybe lower? Fees do get more serious from League One alright (€7m this year), and certainly that's a target the FAI/LoI should be actively aiming for, but have shown no such inclination to.
But I think ultimately, Cleary, Cummins and Hoban's initial success indicates the overall standard is in the league is still a lot lower than we'd like to acknowledge it is, and that's absolutely reflected in the transfer fees too. The fees reflect, in part, the historically high chance that a player will flop. (All this is no reason not to enjoy the league, of course)
If Ez could get beyond the usual slinging of insults and could make an actual point, I'm sure I'd be happy to debate it.
I tghink there is an element of fresh start as well that helps whether you are coming intok the league or just transferring within the league. Look at Gary McCabe at bray last year.
Remember seeing Kavanagh play for Fulham in the Championship a couple of times and on highlights and thought he looked very good at that level. I also thought the same of Shane O'Connor when he was playing for Ipswich in the Championship who is now floating around in the First Division these daysQuote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
There are examples every season of young Irish players in the UK looking to take one step back (to the LOI) to go two-steps forwards (back to the UK at Premier League/Championship), works out for some like Keith Fahey and Richie Towell and in the majority for others like Shane O'Connor it just doesn't happen for them again once they are back here.
I feel the right LOI team and right time is a huge factor in returning Irish players using the LOI as a launchpad to make it again in the UK, Rovers do look on the up now and if Kavanagh maintains his excellent start he might well be back in the Championship this time next year
Very rusty performance from Harps last night. Understandable really, but it'll take a few games for this side to gel. Credit to Shelbourne for getting back into it, but Harps really should have finished them off a few times and probably should have been 2-0 or 3-0 before Shelbourne scored, from what was an absolute howler from Gallagher.
On another note though, Gallagher made one of the best saves I've ever seen in Finn Park from point blank range.
We're going to give someone a hammering this year.
Well that's taken as read.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Ye might even beat someone 4-0 as well. :)
Everyone in the First Division will be giving Athlone a hammering this year. Think the rest of the 9 teams look solid enough so it will be rarity to see anyone outside of Athlone conceding 5+ goals in any game this seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
We'll make sure to reserve our wrestling match for Collie O'Neill and co.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu