Chelsea fans

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

We've all (I presume) been to matches in England to watch our own team or indeed with your mates to watch their team. I assume most of you have never experienced any trouble either at the game or in town that night. I'm talking mid nineties onwards here.

Has anyone gone to a Champions League and witnessed those same well behaved fans suddenly turn nasty.
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Anyone any views on this.

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Never experienced any trouble watching Tranmere (mainly away games) since around 1992. Even against teams with bad reputations (like Millwall - twice in cup a couple of seasons ago, or Cardiff a couple of years ago) there has never been any obvious bother - tho I've not been to matchs vs Wolves or Stoke both of whom are rumoured to have sizeable elements of troublemakers. There probably have been incidents associated with the games, but if you dont go looking for trouble and dont go to dodgy pubs etc then 99% of the time you'll be fine.

As for Champions League matches, Ive only been to a handful and there wasnt any trouble at them. The most recent were Real v Marseille (last year) and Juve v Maccabi (this year). The Marseille fans were loud but well behaved, and in the other match there were only a couple of thousand at the Delle Alpi and the only trouble was from overzealous stewards who wouldnt let tourists (a good 20% of the home crowd) take photos during the game.

One of my friends went to Roma v Galatasary a good few years ago now (when Batistuta played for them) and said the behaviour of the Galatasary fans was pretty poor. Theyre had been a ****-up with checking the fans and they were chucking all sorts of things at the Roma fans. Mostly plastic bottles, but some of them had sharpend beer bottle tops and put some sort of thing in them which was then lit, which made the tops travel at some speed. Anyway eventually the Italian police donned riot gear and used the giant hose (you always see this hose at matches in Italy before the games) to subdue and break up the away fans. I think there was a fight amongst the players at the end of the match too, and Roma got a hefty fine for the crowd trouble.

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Originally Posted by davros

...though some of us are fortunate enough to know a certain 'Mr.Jerry Kilburn' who's all things to all people.......& appeared in a no.of hooligan tomes! :rolleyes:

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Heard a funny story - told by JK himself - about the time he spotted 'Duffer' coming out of SB. 'Oright Duffer' he goes then behind him were these c*nts from the O6C who started singing 'No Surrender!' JK done a rambo and steamed into them. Sounds great, although about as much an urban myth as the story about the porn film, the 30 Stone black man and the dwarf being rammed up his... :eek:

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Originally Posted by anto1208

right so when i was in bairds bar before the celtic games i didnt hear fans signing anti english songs.

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What's these anti-English songs? Flower of Scotland? Bet you don't mind that when it's played at a rugby game. :rolleyes: In the panorama programme, certain d*ck heads added in 'IRA', 'Provisional wing' :confused: :rolleyes: into certain 'rebel' songs and a reference to Juan Pablo (which particluarly p*sses me off) in our anthem, but you can hardly call any of these songs anti-English. One of them is sung by the rugger buggers. Where's the reference to 'up to our necks in English blood?'

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Originally Posted by Conor74

Panorama, of course, is known for being a hotbed of bias and no better than a tabloid. Why would we listen to that drivel when we could read all we ever need to know about Celtic on Celtic View, for an objective and measured attempt to 'ascertain the truth'...

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What? No mention of Mark Walters and bananas today?

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Originally Posted by gspain

no idsea re an Irish accent and a Rangers shirt but in Shelbourne shirts the last lot of EL fans got very well treated at Ibrox.

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Ahhhh!! I bet they were treated like royalty. Tell me again, where was the first leg played again...and why?

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Originally Posted by Junior

Is it sectarian to be a republican? is it sectarian to sing the Soldiers song? is it sectarian to sing a republican song that you know nothing about? I don't think it is.

You get a few idiots as Im sure you do at Everton
:D

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so if rebublican songs are nt sectarian then at the same time unionist songs cant be called sectarian either ,

and yes you do get a lot of idiots at everton games at the momment there is a very bad rassist undercurrent at the club but the difference is that i can see this and admit to it rather than just constantly and blindly defending my club when such thing s are are going on .

im not saying celtic fans are worse than rangers or any other club but to say rangers fans are sectarian biggots while at the same time refusing to accept that it also happens at celtic is silly and the sooner celtic fans accept this the sooner they can rid it from the game ,

what the ira has to do with celtic ill never understand

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Originally Posted by lopez

Ahhhh!! I bet they were treated like royalty. Tell me again, where was the first leg played again...and why?

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If you want to know the real reason why it was because the kickoff for Tolka was moved to 12 noon by the guards and Shels would have lost a packet then. Rangers had 3 busloads travelling - only a handful of tickets sold here so in answer to yuor question - money.

That game should have been played in Dublin. It would have gone off peacefully. rangers had restricted tickets anyway but then opened it up for Tranmere.

I've a lot of respect for what Shels have done in our league and genuinely wish them well. I'll be going alongg as usual to support them in Europe and in the Setanta Cup v Portadown (neutral at the Cork game) but I think a dangerous precedent was set here.

Now I am not standing up for Rangers here. I know they have a sectarian element. I know they have a thug element. The Panorama programme clearly showed that.

As for Ibrox I was there for a game v Aberdeen 14 years ago the day before Packie's testimonial - Irish accent talking freely no problems. Tense hate filled match and some sectarian singing (although the rivalry there is not sectarian) not a family day out by any means.

However I think Celtic are just as bad. I saw Hearts v Celtic in 97 during a business trip to Edinburgh - loads of sectarian singing from the away end and none in the home end that I heard (I was in the home end). I was in the away end at an Edinburgh derby a couple of years back at Tynecastle and again no sectarian singing albeit plenty of hatred.

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Originally Posted by anto1208

so if rebublican songs are nt sectarian then at the same time unionist songs cant be called sectarian either ,

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What a great argument, why didn't I think of that one :confused:
Give me one example of Celtic's support singing anti-protestant songs, of 'being up to our knees in protestant blood' ?? (and I don't mean a couple of idiots in a pub)

You might also note that many great republican ballads are in fact praising great protestants of the past. Sectarian indeed.

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Originally Posted by anto1208

and yes you do get a lot of idiots at everton games at the momment there is a very bad rassist undercurrent at the club but the difference is that i can see this and admit to it rather than just constantly and blindly defending my club when such thing s are are going on .

im not saying celtic fans are worse than rangers or any other club but to say rangers fans are sectarian biggots while at the same time refusing to accept that it also happens at celtic is silly and the sooner celtic fans accept this the sooner they can rid it from the game ,

what the ira has to do with celtic ill never understand

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Blindly defending? I think as a long time ST holder, in regular attendance at Celtic Matches home, away & abroad I can defend my club without doing so blindly. You however have had a couple of 'tourist' visits to Bairds bar and can obviously comment with authority :rolleyes:

Many of Celtics support would agree with you re: the IRA. But does being a Republican make you a sectarian bigot?

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Originally Posted by gspain

However I think Celtic are just as bad. I saw Hearts v Celtic in 97 during a business trip to Edinburgh - loads of sectarian singing from the away end and none in the home end that I heard (I was in the home end). I was in the away end at an Edinburgh derby a couple of years back at Tynecastle and again no sectarian singing albeit plenty of hatred.

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Out of interest gspain. what was the "loads of sectarian singing'" you heard. I'd be interested to hear what constitutes sectarian singing in your opinion.

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Originally Posted by gspain

However I think Celtic are just as bad. I saw Hearts v Celtic in 97 during a business trip to Edinburgh - loads of sectarian singing from the away end and none in the home end that I heard (I was in the home end). I was in the away end at an Edinburgh derby a couple of years back at Tynecastle and again no sectarian singing albeit plenty of hatred.

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I almost choked on my soup!

I was in the Hearts end for a match against Celtic in November 2001 and I have to say that the hatred from the Hearts fans was something else; everyone in green was a fenian or taig, the Nazi salute was openly used (as well as the red hand of Ulster gesture as well) and everyone around me seemed to believe that they were up to their knees in fenian blood.

The night got more interesting when the Haymarket area got closed of after a group of Hearts fans attack the Irish club there (we were actually locked in the Haymarket pub at the police's insistence at 8pm - so it wasn't all bad!)
Hearts are actually some of the most bigoted and nasty fans in Scotland.

Anyone else noticed how two seperate threads about English clubs have desended into Celtic / Rangers ones?

Just a point.

hearts sing "Hello Hello we are the gorgie boys" but it does not mention fenian blood afaik. i think it is Hibee blood - not very nice I'll grant you. The Billy Boys is sectarian IMO.

I would consider IRA songs to be sectarian - The Boys of the old brigade. sean South, I consider the term "hun" to be sectarian and dirty orange b^&tards" to be sectarian.

The band on the pitch played both Sean South and the boys of the Old Brigade before Packie's testimonial.

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Originally Posted by gspain

I would consider IRA songs to be sectarian - The Boys of the old brigade. sean South,

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Yet you do not believe The Soldiers Song to be - In terms of the lyrics is there any signifcant difference?

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Originally Posted by gspain

I consider the term "hun" to be sectarian

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I guess you would also include

"Sheepshagger"
"Munich Scum"
"Scouse *******"

All examples of a derogatory term for opposing fans - all sectarian? :confused:

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Originally Posted by davros

Or that yer now a C'ville man :confused: .....what ever happened to Finn Harps :rolleyes: ....Herr Bear approves though! :D

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Finn Harps badge for summer when the eL is on, Cliftonville for winter when the IL is on. Herr Bear can join myself and Sulvo an MJ in Riff Raffs (£1.60 a pin Sunday to Thurs) next Thursday.

Gary, as far as I could make out it was fenian blood (but I could stand to be corrected.) It certainly doesn't change the sectarian bile that was coming from their fans or the Nazi salutes or the attack on the Irish club by their fans later that night.

Rangers fans without the bus fare is their affectionate nick name which neatly sums up how they have acted in the past.

I have to catch a coach so I'll have to get back to you about the rebel songs!

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Originally Posted by Junior

Yet you do not believe The Soldiers Song to be - In terms of the lyrics is there any signifcant difference?



I guess you would also include

"Sheepshagger"
"Munich Scum"
"Scouse *******"

All examples of a derogatory term for opposing fans - all sectarian? :confused:

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hun
(from the word 'Hanoverian' - protestant monarchy from Hanover, Germany who came to the British throne in 1714 with King George 1st, which in turn led to the Jacobite rebellion)

- sectarian

sheepshagger, munich scum etc are potentially offensive but not sectarian in anyway.

I don't consider TSS sectarian - it is our national anthem albeit in Irish. I don't know any lyrics in it that could be termed sectarian,

I really don't want to go down a rathole here.
I do consider IRA songs to be sectarian. I also consider the UVF/UDA/etc to be sectarian, The IRA murdered 704 civilians during the troubles presumably most of these were protestant. La Mon, Kingsmill etc. I appreciate both Republican and Loyalist terrorists do/did not consider themselves sectarian.

[QUOTE=davros


Er,Misguided perhaps,but the team of choice of many of the Irish Diaspora......& many osc.Nationalists......thus some 'political' perspective;simple enough to understand?[/QUOTE]


yes i understand the link but what have songs about the ira got to do with a soccer team playing soccer ?how is there a link between terrorists and football teams ?? .
do some clubs sing songs about bin ladin ?

im irish does nt mean i have to be a bar stool rebublican .i dont feel just coz im irish i have to support celtic.

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Originally Posted by anto1208

im irish does nt mean i have to be a bar stool rebublican .i dont feel just coz im irish i have to support celtic

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Seriously anto, who has suggested that you have to be a bar stool republican or indeed a celtic supporter? Those voices in your head must be getting louder. Lose the chip or at least the paranoia, otherwise I'll begin to think you are a celtic fan ;)

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Originally Posted by gspain

hun
(from the word 'Hanoverian' - protestant monarchy from Hanover, Germany who came to the British throne in 1714 with King George 1st, which in turn led to the Jacobite rebellion)

- sectarian

sheepshagger, munich scum etc are potentially offensive but not sectarian in anyway.

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Ahh, the old dictionary term for it, good answer. So I guess that makes any historian of the WW's, former soldiers etc... all sectarian bigots. Glad we are in good company then!

Hun = Derogatory slang term for Rangers Supporter. This supporter can be Catholic, Protestant, Atheist, Black, White or Yellow, it does not matter as long as they are a Rangers Supporter.

From The Junior Dictionary of Footballing terminology :D

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Originally Posted by gspain

I don't consider TSS sectarian - it is our national anthem albeit in Irish. I don't know any lyrics in it that could be termed sectarian,

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I agree, but what are the words in Sean South or Boys of the old Brigade that are sectarian then? enlighten me.

I also don't want to carry on this Celtic/Rangers discussion - this board has seen enough of it. Perhaps we should either bring the thread back on track or call it a day.

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Originally Posted by Bring Back Mick

Didn't realise we upset you so much don't think the good old Catholic management team of Jose and Stevie Clarke would be made welcome @ Ibrox, and maybe you would be surprised at the amount of Irish Chelsea fans out there, everyone is entitled to their opinion u make sure you get to the point of what you want to say !!!

I was at Cardiff on Sunday were you ?
The Liverpool fans did add colour and some atmosphere (was noted on the offical CFC chat) to the occassion........put us to shame after the game ??? But don't worry the Irish Chelsea support was well represented and I'm sure my flag wound up "the minority scum" (as some on here refer to them) as it was in a prime position to be seen by most of the Chelsea support........and acknowledged by Duffer and Stevie Clarke before the game....Roll on the Premiership

Looks like Duffer will be a thorn in your side for years to come he loves it at the Bridge and intends staying for the duration .....Keep the Blue flag flying High !!!

http://northcote0.tripod.com/cardiff/DCP_0122.JPG

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yeah great to be proud of a an Irish Tricolor with chelsea written on it. dont suppose youev ever noticed any union jacks with shelborne etc on them?? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by gspain

no idsea re an Irish accent and a Rangers shirt but in Shelbourne shirts the last lot of EL fans got very well treated at Ibrox.

.

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by the club. ask any shels fan how the huns treated them at prenton park youl get a totally diferent story. my mate was in prenton park for that game btw i know what im on about

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Originally Posted by anto1208

think you will find that the word hun was used by british soldiers in the war to describe the germans !!!!
ill accept that the songs are more irish republican songs than anti engliah but what the hell has irish republican songs got to do with a scotish soccer team ?

give over on the celtic fans are nt that bad there are just as bad as rangers fans if not even worse

to say rangers fans would attack you if they hear your accent or name is rubbish ive often been out on the **** in glasgow and met rangers fans and had a great time with them .

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your point baout huns=germans in ww1 is irrelevant. i know that that term was used for the germans. but ww1 has nothing to do with the fact that rangers fans were given that name by an english paper after they ran amok in england!

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Originally Posted by gspain

If you want to know the real reason why it was because the kickoff for Tolka was moved to 12 noon by the guards and Shels would have lost a packet then. Rangers had 3 busloads travelling - only a handful of tickets sold here so in answer to yuor question - money.

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Is that what the boys from OWM told you. And why was this so? So that the Guards could have an easy day? Every newspaper had it that the game was moved because of 'the threat of sectarian violence from Protestant Rangers supporters travelling south from Northern Ireland.' Apologies, but if you don't mind, this time I'll take their word for it. After the incident with the Scum two years previously, I guess no one was taking a chance. Money doesn't come into it unless you also take in the fact that the lack of sales could not, under any circumstance, be transferred to away supporters. And I don't for a minute believe that Shelbourne could not have filled their ground at twelve with supporters for a game with Rangers unless they were worried that these would be top heavy with supporters of other EL clubs with an unhealthy interest in the SPL.Whether they moved the kick-off to twelve or moved it to Liverpool, this 'threat of violence' was the major factor.

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Originally Posted by gspain

That game should have been played in Dublin. It would have gone off peacefully. rangers had restricted tickets anyway but then opened it up for Tranmere.

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When has any visit to the 26C by Rangers gone off peacefully in the past thirty years. Even Linfield have managed this feat. You do sometimes live in a parallel universe. The question here is, why have these games always had trouble? I mean Bohs (Twice), Dundalk, Shelbourne: They're not Celtic. Why has there been no corresponding trouble with Celtic when they visit England? OK, there was that trouble at Sunderland v Celtic a few years back when a bloke got his face slashed and that massive riot at Villa Park in the seventies. Hold on! Wasn't that Rangers? 'Bad as each other': Hate to see what Rangers have to do to make them the worst old firm supporters in your eyes. :rolleyes:

As for Edinburgh being a better place, I remember my last visit to Murrayfield in 1993 with Conchita and this bloke passed her side with his girlfriend as we were walking back into town, and every second word was 'Fenian'. No, these people aren't obsessive. Junior's right: Sectarianism (anti Irishness to be succinct) runs right through Scottish society. It is its (not so) secret shame, and isn't just confined to Rangers fans or those of Irish Unionist descent as the apologists love to spin.

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Originally Posted by gspain

hun
(from the word 'Hanoverian' - protestant monarchy from Hanover, Germany who came to the British throne in 1714 with King George 1st, which in turn led to the Jacobite rebellion)

- sectarian.

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Are you quoting from a proper dictionary or making things up? Collins has it as 1. Member of several Asiatic nomadic peoples speaking Mongoloid or Turkic languages... 2. A derogatory name for German 3. A vandal. No mention of George I, 2 or 3 or sectarianism. Mind you, this dictionary is four years old which is nearly as old as Mark Walters getting a banana thrown at him.

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Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

Hearts are actually some of the most bigoted and nasty fans in Scotland.

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You've also forgotten Motherwell and the gone and forgotten Airdrieonians.

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Originally Posted by Pat O' Banton

Gary, as far as I could make out it was fenian blood (but I could stand to be corrected.) It certainly doesn't change the sectarian bile that was coming from their fans or the Nazi salutes or the attack on the Irish club by their fans later that night.

Rangers fans without the bus fare is their affectionate nick name which neatly sums up how they have acted in the past.

I have to catch a coach so I'll have to get back to you about the rebel songs!

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From http://www.jambofever.co.uk/custom.p...songs&clubid=6

HELLO HELLO
Hello, Hello we are the Gorgie boys
Hello, Hello you'll know us by our noise
We're up to our knees in hibee blood
Surrender or you'll die
For we are the Gorgie bovver boys.


"huns without the busfare" is a Celtic term for Jambos and indeed Dundee & Airdrie fans.

No Nazi salutes or sectarian songs at either Tynecastle game I attended. Plenty of passion and hatred.

This may seem strange but I'm not bothered in the least by sectarian or offensive chanting unless it is Irish fans doing it as I feel it reflects on me too. Hence I'd enjoy an Old Firm game (only been to one) and not bother re the sectarianism however was disgusted by the booing of Rangers players at Lansdowne road and the "dirty proddie, hun bast^&d" terms used also.

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Originally Posted by Junior

- IMO Quinn was only a disgrace in that he blamed Celtics Away support (of which he claimed he had no control as they were not ST holders :confused: )


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yet to get an away ticket for a Celtic game YOU MUST have a season ticket for Celtic Park!!!!

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Originally Posted by davros

Get A fecking Life :rolleyes: .......& edukation/spellchecker....FFS! :o

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give over the spellchecking cr@p please.its pointless and petty